Van's Air Force
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Sweet! I was hoping for this!
- Thread starter Dgamble
- Start date
Autopilot - Now or Later?
All right! Now I'm wondering if there is any advantage to ordering/installing now as opposed to after everything else is completed. My empennage, wings, and fuselage are complete and I'm starting on the finish kit this week.
Maybe Scott McD. could weigh in on this question. If there is stuff happening in the finish kit that would have to be changed for the AP I might as well do the AP now and save the re-work.
Thoughts?
All right! Now I'm wondering if there is any advantage to ordering/installing now as opposed to after everything else is completed. My empennage, wings, and fuselage are complete and I'm starting on the finish kit this week.
Maybe Scott McD. could weigh in on this question. If there is stuff happening in the finish kit that would have to be changed for the AP I might as well do the AP now and save the re-work.
Thoughts?
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John,
I recently completed the AP installation in "New Blue". It took me about 10 hours work in a completed airplane. That included the draining and removal of the fuel tank in order to get into the area behind the baggage bulkhead where the roll servo is mounted.
I had to install the servo mounting brackets as they were not available during initital construction of the fuselage. I did, however, aleady have the AP74 controller head installed. This saved removing the instrument panel and installing it as a retrofit. If I had to do that, it would have taken about another three hours work. The plans/instructions for installing the controller are (as like the rest of RV-12) very straight forward and easy to follow.
The wiring already being in place is the biggest plus of all. That would have been a real pain to do in a completed aircraft.
Once installed, the Dynon setup procedure is addressed. It looks very involved and it is. But take it one step at a time and you'll find it not difficult at all and very easy to understand.
The AP74 controller can be programmed as to how it arms itself and therefore how it functions when initially engaged. There are three modes that can be selected. I've tried all three (they can be changed in flight with no safety concerns) and found the "ON ENGAGE" mode best for me. Read the AP74 setup procedures available online from Dynon to see what I mean and what the other two modes are aall about.
I've flight tested the system and found it to be easy to operate and functions very nicely. I especially like the altitude preselect function. The GPSMAP 396 I have in the 12 only puts out serial data and not the ARINC 429 data that is required for GPSS steering. So, when letting it follow a flight plan programmed into the GPS, as long as the turn to the next leg is not too great of an angle, the plane will overshoot the waypoint only by a small margin and only one or two oscillations are required for it to come back rock solid on the course line.
This is a good autopilot. Works well and is easy to use. And at a tick less than $2K for a two axis autopilot? That's pretty good.
Is it easier to install during initial construction? Oh yeah. But not by such a great margin that I would be put off to installing it at a later date.
I recently completed the AP installation in "New Blue". It took me about 10 hours work in a completed airplane. That included the draining and removal of the fuel tank in order to get into the area behind the baggage bulkhead where the roll servo is mounted.
I had to install the servo mounting brackets as they were not available during initital construction of the fuselage. I did, however, aleady have the AP74 controller head installed. This saved removing the instrument panel and installing it as a retrofit. If I had to do that, it would have taken about another three hours work. The plans/instructions for installing the controller are (as like the rest of RV-12) very straight forward and easy to follow.
The wiring already being in place is the biggest plus of all. That would have been a real pain to do in a completed aircraft.
Once installed, the Dynon setup procedure is addressed. It looks very involved and it is. But take it one step at a time and you'll find it not difficult at all and very easy to understand.
The AP74 controller can be programmed as to how it arms itself and therefore how it functions when initially engaged. There are three modes that can be selected. I've tried all three (they can be changed in flight with no safety concerns) and found the "ON ENGAGE" mode best for me. Read the AP74 setup procedures available online from Dynon to see what I mean and what the other two modes are aall about.
I've flight tested the system and found it to be easy to operate and functions very nicely. I especially like the altitude preselect function. The GPSMAP 396 I have in the 12 only puts out serial data and not the ARINC 429 data that is required for GPSS steering. So, when letting it follow a flight plan programmed into the GPS, as long as the turn to the next leg is not too great of an angle, the plane will overshoot the waypoint only by a small margin and only one or two oscillations are required for it to come back rock solid on the course line.
This is a good autopilot. Works well and is easy to use. And at a tick less than $2K for a two axis autopilot? That's pretty good.
Is it easier to install during initial construction? Oh yeah. But not by such a great margin that I would be put off to installing it at a later date.
doncarljones
Well Known Member
Autopilot for less than 2K!!
Mitch,
I priced a two-axis autopilot for my Cherokee 140 this past summer. It was about $15,000! (Certified price) This is one reason I started looking at the RV-12 - just add 2 servos to what the 12 already has, and your're done. If my math is correct, $15,000 is one-fourth the total cost of the 12!
Don
Mitch,
I priced a two-axis autopilot for my Cherokee 140 this past summer. It was about $15,000! (Certified price) This is one reason I started looking at the RV-12 - just add 2 servos to what the 12 already has, and your're done. If my math is correct, $15,000 is one-fourth the total cost of the 12!
Don
Actually, for those still building, I would think that the AP74 should be installed same time as the D180. We don't know yet if a new left panel piece with the cutout for the AP74 comes with the autopilot subkit, but if so then you don't want to have to drill out all the rivets that hold the D180 mount bracket to your existing left panel. If you have to cut a hole in the existing left panel, then you still may want to remove the D180 bracket to make it easier. Also, in BigJohns case, it would be a whole lot easier to install the needed servo brackets before the tailcone goes onto the fuselage.
For what it's worth...
Tony
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For everyone's information. The AP kit does not come with a seperate left instrument panel for inclusion of the AP 74. What does come in the kit is a template that temorarily screws over the panel for the required cutout. You screw it in place, then drill thru the holes that define the cutout. Remove the template, finish the cut and file smooth. I used a cutoff wheel in a Dremel tool to finish the cut. You probably would want to keep the D180 tray installed in the panel as the AP74 cutout takes part of its mounting flange away.
Attaching the roll servo bracket thru the baggage bulkhead is not a problem. Took about an hour. Please note: If you are installing this bracket after the plane is up on its gear, make sure you support the tail before you get into the baggage area. Also, there is a sequence for installing the four bolts that actually hold the servo to the bracket. Install the two bolts most forward first. Then the aft two. Try it the other way first and you'll see why.
Attaching the roll servo bracket thru the baggage bulkhead is not a problem. Took about an hour. Please note: If you are installing this bracket after the plane is up on its gear, make sure you support the tail before you get into the baggage area. Also, there is a sequence for installing the four bolts that actually hold the servo to the bracket. Install the two bolts most forward first. Then the aft two. Try it the other way first and you'll see why.
JerryG150
Well Known Member
AP Sounds Good ... might be good timing too
Guess I'll order the auto-pilot too. I'm slowly working on the Finishing Kit (2 1/2 year old grandson visiting all November
, so I'll get back to work in December) ... still building the gas tank and panel area is completely exposed with lots of wires ... no canopy yet installed ... the fuselage/tailcone is on it's side on low sawhorses. Might be a good time to add the AP, then order the Avionics Kit afterwards.
Guess I'll order the auto-pilot too. I'm slowly working on the Finishing Kit (2 1/2 year old grandson visiting all November
, so I'll get back to work in December) ... still building the gas tank and panel area is completely exposed with lots of wires ... no canopy yet installed ... the fuselage/tailcone is on it's side on low sawhorses. Might be a good time to add the AP, then order the Avionics Kit afterwards.Auto Pilot Installation
When I read about draining the gas tank and removing it for access to the aft cone I decided to order the autopilot and install it BEFORE I put in the fuel tank. I am almost done with the tank now and will leave it out and will have the AP sent along with the engine kit which is expected mid-December. I am working out of sequence but it makes sense...I would dread draining that tank.
Thank goodness others have wisely advised leaving out the aft window and the wide pieces otherwise access would be really awkward at best.
I am getting a LOT of help via all your posts, gentlemen; thank you.
JOhn at Salida, CO
N1CX RV6A flying
N29CX Reserved
When I read about draining the gas tank and removing it for access to the aft cone I decided to order the autopilot and install it BEFORE I put in the fuel tank. I am almost done with the tank now and will leave it out and will have the AP sent along with the engine kit which is expected mid-December. I am working out of sequence but it makes sense...I would dread draining that tank.
Thank goodness others have wisely advised leaving out the aft window and the wide pieces otherwise access would be really awkward at best.
I am getting a LOT of help via all your posts, gentlemen; thank you.
JOhn at Salida, CO
N1CX RV6A flying
N29CX Reserved
Here is the autopilot kit:
Installation looks to be straight forward, but for a "post construction" install you need a compact right angle drill adapter to work in the close quarters.
Tony
Tony,
Marty sent me your pics. Please keep us up to date on your work since several of us will be doing post-flying installs and your discoveries will be a big help.
Thx
LIMA HOTEL
Active Member
AUTO-PILOT TIMING
In my humble opinion, Van's ought to supply the 5 small aluminum servo brackets with the fuselage kit even if they have to raise the price by a few bucks. They really need to be installed during regular construction, just like the wires for the AP are. Then there will be no need for an angle drill to remove hard to get to rivets and installation later is simplified. Also there is a bit of material to remove from a rib under the pilot seat that would be much easier to do outside the plane before rib installation.
Larry
In my humble opinion, Van's ought to supply the 5 small aluminum servo brackets with the fuselage kit even if they have to raise the price by a few bucks. They really need to be installed during regular construction, just like the wires for the AP are. Then there will be no need for an angle drill to remove hard to get to rivets and installation later is simplified. Also there is a bit of material to remove from a rib under the pilot seat that would be much easier to do outside the plane before rib installation.
Larry
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Autopilot Servo Brackets
You don't have to depend on Van's to incude the autopilot brackets in any kit. Be proactive and order the following Autopilot Servo Brackets:
F-1269 Servo Doubler
F-1286A-L Servo Bracket
F-1286A-R Servo Bracket
F-1286-L Servo Angle
F-1286-R Servo Angle
The Servo Brackets and Servo Angles come as one piece which you separate to get the L&R parts. I would guess that these parts would cost less than $50based on similar replacement parts that I have had to order.
Bob Kibby
You don't have to depend on Van's to incude the autopilot brackets in any kit. Be proactive and order the following Autopilot Servo Brackets:
F-1269 Servo Doubler
F-1286A-L Servo Bracket
F-1286A-R Servo Bracket
F-1286-L Servo Angle
F-1286-R Servo Angle
The Servo Brackets and Servo Angles come as one piece which you separate to get the L&R parts. I would guess that these parts would cost less than $50based on similar replacement parts that I have had to order.
Bob Kibby
Auotpilot Brackets
"You don't have to depend on Van's to incude the autopilot brackets in any kit. Be proactive and order the following Autopilot Servo Brackets:
F-1269 Servo Doubler
F-1286A-L Servo Bracket
F-1286A-R Servo Bracket
F-1286-L Servo Angle
F-1286-R Servo Angle
The Servo Brackets and Servo Angles come as one piece which you separate to get the L&R parts. I would guess that these parts would cost less than $50based on similar replacement parts that I have had to order.
Bob Kibby"
It would seem a good idea to fit these while building as Bob suggests but these parts are not listed in "The List" of parts to order on the Vans website. Only available if you buy the autopilot kit??
Jim Devlin
"You don't have to depend on Van's to incude the autopilot brackets in any kit. Be proactive and order the following Autopilot Servo Brackets:
F-1269 Servo Doubler
F-1286A-L Servo Bracket
F-1286A-R Servo Bracket
F-1286-L Servo Angle
F-1286-R Servo Angle
The Servo Brackets and Servo Angles come as one piece which you separate to get the L&R parts. I would guess that these parts would cost less than $50based on similar replacement parts that I have had to order.
Bob Kibby"
It would seem a good idea to fit these while building as Bob suggests but these parts are not listed in "The List" of parts to order on the Vans website. Only available if you buy the autopilot kit??
Jim Devlin
Call Van's to order parts
I would call Van's to order the autopilot parts rather than looking on their internet site. All the parts are Van's part numbers so you should have no problem getting them.
Working as fast as I can. Shooting for first flight next month.
Bob Kibby "N712BK"
I would call Van's to order the autopilot parts rather than looking on their internet site. All the parts are Van's part numbers so you should have no problem getting them.
Working as fast as I can. Shooting for first flight next month.
Bob Kibby "N712BK"
Since I'm adverse to taking things apart that I just built, I called Vans to order the extra autopilot mounting parts. They told me that they are now included in the fuselage kit and you have the option to install or not.
I'll see Monday if that's true when my kit arrives.
Mitch Garner
RV-4 flying
PL-4 flying
RV-12...workin' on it
I'll see Monday if that's true when my kit arrives.
Mitch Garner
RV-4 flying
PL-4 flying
RV-12...workin' on it
Dgamble
Well Known Member
Included in fuse kit?
If it is true (and I will find out tomorrow when mine arrives) that the fuse kit now contains the autopilot brackets, I have a spare set if anyone needs them. Free for the asking.
Update: they're gone now. And FYI: the brackets do come with the fuse kit now.
If it is true (and I will find out tomorrow when mine arrives) that the fuse kit now contains the autopilot brackets, I have a spare set if anyone needs them. Free for the asking.
Update: they're gone now. And FYI: the brackets do come with the fuse kit now.
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