EarthX battery questions

I currently have the Odyssey PC 680 battery in my RV7A (IO-360 with 60 amp alternator). It's really having a hard time turning over the engine (usually one half crank initially). Today it wouldn't hardly turn over at all and it's been on a battery minder for over a week (one specifically for the Odyssey battery). My battery is at least three years old but I suspect older since I'm the second owner and have owned it over two and a half years.

Here are my questions:
1. EarthX website says their battery has over twice the cranking power of the Odyssey. Of those that have installed the EarthX battery, can you confirm a significant difference in starting power?
2. When you replaced your old battery with the EarthX, was the smaller foot print a problem for you?
3. I'm a little concerned about having a lithium battery in the airplane due to the press reports of those batteries over heating and catching fire. EarthX literature indicates several safety features. What is the VAF consensus of this battery?
4. At OSHKOSH I believe there was some type of special pricing on the EarthX battery. Does anyone know whether any special pricing still exist?
5. The battery minder I have doesn't appear to work with the EarthX battery. Is there any other battery that has high cranking amps that will work with my battery minder?

Replaced my Odyssey with an EarthX Battery and have NO REGRETS!

1. Cranks way better. Looks like it's going to spin the prop clean off. Much better than the two previous Odyssey batteries I had used.

2. No problem with footprint. Fit right in the same tray the old one was in. Also, it weights less and that's good.

3. Yeah, I had some concerns also initially but, this battery comes with a wire that you use to install a little caution light to in the cockpit so if the batt has any, internally monitored, issues, the light comes on and gives you a "heads up". You'll have to make your own decisions but, I'm pleased dispite the hype.

4. I had to work so couldn't make it to OSH but, there usually are "show specials" at OSH so give 'em a call.

5. The battery does require a different trickle charger,,, check out thier website for details. When you call them up, they'll explain.

You didn't ask a 6th question but, I'm going to add it here,,, Customer Support,,,

I've had two "false alarms" which were MY Fault or, better so say, Not the battery's problem.

1st, I discharged the battery when I left the AC power on too long and they didn't hesitate to help me out with "how to" get it sorted out. I'm not electrical genius but, the thing has built in protection that protects it from discharge problems. After you plug it into the proper charger (I didn't have at that time) it flips the protection mode off and allows the charger to do it's thing.

The 2nd time was while I had a VIP onboard (my young niece) and i noticed my little cockpit light came on-turned out my heated back seat had a shorted wire which was rapidly discharging the battery and it was warning me. We landed and I called the lovely ladies at EarthX and by the time I got home to Oregon, I had a replacement battery waiting for me! They were great!! Even though I didn't "have to" replace the battery, they where very clear that they wanted to take care of those who use thier batteries in aircraft.

You should of course proceed with caution with any electrical power changes but, I can easily recommend EarthX. Have now flown a couple hundred hours with one-only my own fault for the issues I've had.

Send me a PM with any questions or to chat further.

Tankerpilot75 said:

I currently have the Odyssey PC 680 battery in my RV7A (IO-360 with 60 amp alternator). It's really having a hard time turning over the engine (usually one half crank initially). Today it wouldn't hardly turn over at all and it's been on a battery minder for over a week (one specifically for the Odyssey battery). My battery is at least three years old but I suspect older since I'm the second owner and have owned it over two and a half years.

Click to expand...

Starter problems perhaps?

I have read this in a few locations, standard wiring systems have an over current breaker, they do not have an over voltage regulator.
If you install an EarthX, make sure to add an over voltage regulator.

I am sure I am going to get this part wrong; but one of the more possible scenarios which may harm the battery deals with worn brushes. The alternator field current is reactive, and due to delays in how this works, when loads are added/removed you can get brief spikes. If the brushes are worn, the length and magnitude of the spikes increases. Eventually the spikes can not only damage the battery, but can cause it to overheat.

There is a device you can inline to prevent this, called MOV if I remember correctly. Here is a link in electrical gibberish which explains the MOV: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varistor
Make sure you talk to someone who actually understands this stuff before taking any of my advice.

Tim

Hey Jim,
You can come over and look at mine if you want a first hand look at one. I can show you what I have and talk about any of your questions. I love the cranking power. It cranks much faster than the Odyssey. Give me a call.

Suggest you diagnose the cause of your starting problem before selecting a new battery.

No starter problems

Walt said:

Starter problems perhaps?

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No Walt. We checked that out first along with making sure cables were properly sized and all connections clean. What convinced me and an A&P/IA that volunteered to look at it was using my car battery to try to jump start things (without actually starting). With the car battery assistance it really spun the prop. The A&P/IA said that proved everything else was okay but my problem definitely was battery.

RVbySDI said:

Hey Jim,
You can come over and look at mine if you want a first hand look at one. I can show you what I have and talk about any of your questions. I love the cranking power. It cranks much faster than the Odyssey. Give me a call.

Click to expand...

Will call Friday. Got to fly today in a friend's turbine bonanza. What a sweet ride!

Does anyone know!

I've been looking at some other options besides the EarthX. My major goal with this swap out is of course addressing cranking power. It seems Odyssey also make the SBS-J16 battery in the same foot print (size) as the PC680. However Aircraft Spruce lists the SBS-J16 CCAs as 300 and PHCA as 680 compared to CCA 170/PHCA 520 for the PC680. Those are significantly higher numbers for a few dollars more and keeps everything else the same (battery type, foot print, type of charger).

Does anyone know anything about the Odyssey SBS-J16? Spruce has it as an FAA PMA certified battery. Anyone's thoughts?

A PC-680 has plenty of cranking power if the battery and cranking system are healthy. I have a lightweight prop, a Skytech NL starter, and a PC-680 and the engine turns over effortlessly. You may have a tired battery or something else amiss in your starting system. The EarthX and similar batteries are not the solution to poor starting - they are beneficial for removing excess weight.

Do you have a grounding strap from your crankcase to a common ground point with your battery?

Could very well be the Odyssey battery. The PC625 I have used in my commercial mower for 8 years started acting up last spring. After charging the battery back up, it would discharge over about a 7 day period and only have enough juice left to make the solenoid click. That slowly changed to overnight discharges. Took it out, charged it fully and took it to a local Batteries Plus location for testing. Had good voltage but the guy said "It's on the way out". They don't carry them any longer as the guy said Odyssey only uses a couple on-line distributors now. Ordered a new one from Battery Mart. In the meantime, I put the old battery back on the charger and left it overnight. It got really hot! Seems to be working great now and I have a new Odyssey sitting on the shelf. I am going to try the Earth-X in the -9A when I get to that point.

Rotorheadrob said:

Replaced my Odyssey with an EarthX Battery and have NO REGRETS!


2. No problem with footprint. Fit right in the same tray the old one was in. Also, it weights less and that's good.

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Not quite. I just swapped and if you use a hold down bracket such as:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/odysseydry9.php?clickkey=7358

the EarthX is just a tinny bit taller. Now the difference is small enough that after bending the bracket a bit you can make it fit but it doesn't just "side in".

In terms of cranking power I really didn't need more -- the Odyssey did just fine -- I mainly changed to reduce weight in the front, however, it does seem that the EarthX gives me a higher RPM and holds it without slowing down at all.

Sometimes I actually wonder if it has to much cranking power and if the engine would start sooner with less. One of the Slick reps explained to me once that the retarder on the Mag will disengage at 400RPM or so making starting the engine actually more difficult. With the EarthX I am at that level ... .

Oliver

Kyle Boatright said:

Do you have a grounding strap from your crankcase to a common ground point with your battery?

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Yes. Heavy duty ground strap from battery to fire wall.

While I appreciate everyone's efforts to point me into checking other problems besides a tired battery, I can honestly attest to the fact that those avenues have been explored.

Can you load test the battery? easy test, Earth X 900 in my 7a. no problems.

Ordered Odyssey PC680 Again

Tankerpilot75 said:

It seems Odyssey also make the SBS-J16 battery in the same foot print (size) as the PC680. However Aircraft Spruce lists the SBS-J16 CCAs as 300 and PHCA as 680 compared to CCA 170/PHCA 520 for the PC680. Those are significantly higher numbers for a few dollars more and keeps everything else the same (battery type, foot print, type of charger).

Does anyone know anything about the Odyssey SBS-J16? Spruce has it as an FAA PMA certified battery. Anyone's thoughts?

Click to expand...

Sent an email to Odyssey last night. They responded this morning and I followed up their email with a phone call. It seems Aircraft Spruce has the CCA and PHCA data wrong on their Odyssey SBS J16 battery.

The Odyssey tech rep said: "Internally, the PC680 and the SBS J16 have the same TPPL, AGM, Non-Spillable design, so they have the same performance specs. Both batteries will have a minimum of 520CA for the first five seconds at 80F (PHCA). Higher than any other comparable conventional battery size or Ah. CCA ratings are out dated for most applications as they are based on CA for 30 seconds at 0F." My follow up conversation with the tech rep basically confirmed they are the same battery but with the SBS J16 being FAA PMA certified (and of course priced higher). She told me how to read the "manufacturing date" so I can confirm how old my current battery is. She also said, "the CCA of 170 on the PC680 is based on 0 degrees F and that at most temperatures and operating conditions the PC680 CA is around 220."

I ordered another Odyssey PC 680. Cheapest solution and allows me to use my current battery minder, which by the way, she said should be used when temperatures are above 70 degrees F and the aircraft is not being used frequently. I would have thought using a battery minder was more critical in colder temperatures but she said higher discharge rates occur at higher ambient temperatures. Interesting!

I was really tempted to try the EarthX battery but frankly running "another wire" through the firewall to feed a battery warning light just turned me off. I've ran too many wires this last year for various upgrades that I just want a simple, cheap fix this time. The lithium design of the battery is still a concern for me but only because of a lack of long term data. I believe that while the battery is still fresh it probably will be fine, however as any battery ages it's chemistry changes and a lack of reliable long term safety information just concerns me. I'll let others provide those LT studies.

And NO to those that think I may have a short due to these other wires. That also was tested before confirming the problem was the battery. However, I won't deny that a year of electrical/avionics mods didn't take a toll on my current battery. A number of serious discharges occurred while I was wiring various modifications up and testing their functionality. However, in my defense the battery was never fully discharged and was always immediately placed back on the battery minder. As a senior citizen I can affirm that age and heavy discharge wears you down and internal chemistry changes occur. Batteries due age!

"She told me how to read the "manufacturing date" so I can confirm how old my current battery is."

Care to share the secret?

Thanks
Erich

The original U.S.A. manufactured date can be determined by the 14 digit bar code date number
located on the top of the battery case. An example of this number is as follows:

06NCD40150152 and can be determined as follows.
06NCD… is the factory’s code number of that particular size of battery i.e. PC680
04 denotes the YEAR of manufacture i.e. 2004
015 denotes the DAY of the year that the battery is made i.e. during the month of January (15th day)
0152 is the actual number of that battery, in that production day, in that size of battery.

Thanks Walt!

That's basically what she said. SorryVAF folks, I should have posted it!

Tankerpilot75 said:

Does anyone know anything about the Odyssey SBS-J16? Spruce has it as an FAA PMA certified battery. Anyone's thoughts?

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Tankerpilot, when my 680 failed I switched to the SBS-J16 6 months ago. No issues. Interesting that it is the same as the 680. I purchased mine thru Battery Mart.

I am like you in wanting to keep the plane simple and not run another wire with the EarthX. The weight reduction is very tempting though.