Titan IO-370 Install Issue

This is my current issue I am working through. I bought the titan IO-370 engine new from the manufacturer. Before I bought the motor I placed a call to Vetterman for one of his exhaust systems. He mentioned that I need to only use the Superior cold air sump with his exhaust. I let the salesman at titan know that tidbit. Unfortunately, now with the cowling on I do not have enough room for the throttle servo to mount the induction snorkel, let alone have the approriate clearance with the cowl. It has a little less than 1/4". (See attached photo)

The sump is a superior cold air sump and the throttle servo is a Silverhawk.
I have no experience with either. Unfortunately Titan doesn't make their injection system anymore, that would have been the best option as it was 2 inches shorter. I think I bought the engine right as they stopped making their injection system and got caught in the transition. The motor was purchased before continental motors bought them.

My question for this forum is which option is best or are there other options that won't cost me power and/or screw up the cowl lines nor break the bank?

A) I go to a 7 degree Titan sump. This means that I can't use the Vetterman exhaust. I will probably have to use the titan exhaust. Will I loose power? The motor dyno'd out at 204hp. The more power the better in my opinion. This means no cowl modification. Depending on what Titan does with me this could add on a significant cost to the airplane, and will the motor have to go back to Titan to do this mod.

B) Modify the cowl with a pimple/blister to accommodate the longer throttle servo and try and fill it as best as possible. The blister will be around 3/4" out on the cowl and would screw up a **** good build and airplane in my opinion.

C) ?

Andrew, what cowling are you using? A couple of builders that I know with the James cowl, and the trombone exhaust needed to add a blister to clear the exhaust flange on the left side. I was told that if you used the ECI cold sump, Clint would have to make a custom exhaust. I didnt want to do that, nor did the builders I know.

Check it out-
Tom

We've used silver hawk and superior cold sumps on the last 2 RV8s and have had no such snorkel issues.

I have an IO-375 (Aero Sport) with Superior cold air sump, Silverhawk servo & Vetterman 4 pipe exhaust. Also no problem fitting the snorkel or cowl clearance.

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Tom,
Thanks for your help. It's the stock Van's cowling. Its a horizontal induction vs the vertical induction. Clint told another builder that his pipes wouldn't work with the titan cold air sump. I think that I specifically need the titan 7 degree cold air sump. I didn't know he could build custom pipes. I may have to go that route once I get past the clearance issue. I have been told that the Sam James cowl is longer and doesn't have this issue. How bad did the blisters stick out on the ones your friends built. Can you send a pic. That may be a route I have to go.

Thanks Andy

BluSkyRidr said:

Tom,
Thanks for your help. It's the stock Van's cowling. Its a horizontal induction vs the vertical induction. Clint told another builder that his pipes wouldn't work with the titan cold air sump. I think that I specifically need the titan 7 degree cold air sump. I didn't know he could build custom pipes. I may have to go that route once I get past the clearance issue. I have been told that the Sam James cowl is longer and doesn't have this issue. How bad did the blisters stick out on the ones your friends built. Can you send a pic. That may be a route I have to go.

Thanks Andy

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Still trying to figure out why you have a cowl issue with the sump/servo combo you have. The latest snorkel and cowl from Vans fits a Superior cold sump with a standard Bendix/Silverhawk/Avstar injector. Unless you have a larger injector/servo than normal.

I looked at your website on some down time at the Atlanta airport tonight. You guys have vertical inductions this is horizontal. Did you build 2 of them horizontal? Did they have the Sam James cowl? It is longer I am told.

It turns out that I am not alone with this problem. I found this post from 2012.

" I think the Superior cold induction sump just lowers the throttle body at least an inch. Rotating the throttle body 90 degrees did not help due to interference with the control arms. The snorkel was not the problem. I actually have come to like the look of the modification to the cowl. We just refer to it as the "ball sack" mod."

Jon,
Here is a pic of the servo. I don't believe it is a standard bendix style. I may be wrong as I have a lot to learn. Thanks for your time

Andy

+1 Trouble Free On This Setup

I have this exact same setup - IO-375, Superior cold air sump, Silverhawk, and Vetterman 4-pipe. Had no problems with the snorkel or cowl clearance either. Mine is on a -7.

Champ said:

I have an IO-375 (Aero Sport) with Superior cold air sump, Silverhawk servo & Vetterman 4 pipe exhaust. Also no problem fitting the snorkel or cowl clearance.

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BluSkyRidr said:

Jon,
Here is a pic of the servo. I don't believe it is a standard bendix style. I may be wrong as I have a lot to learn. Thanks for your time

Andy

Click to expand...

My current RV8 has vertical induction. I have since built 2 with horizontal induction.

At this point I'm giving up! Good luck!

After much consternation and talking to Titan these are my only solutions. It just doesn't fit. I bought the engine right after Titan stopped making their fuel injection system. When I talked to them at OSH they still made it, but by the time I ordered the engine the following February they didn't make it anymore. If I had their fuel injection system this is not a problem. Swapping the fuel injection system to one that would work is too cost prohibitive. The engine was run on the test stand for three hours with the current superior cold air sump with no issues.

Solution 1
Titan makes a cold air sump that has a 7 degree tilt on it. 7 degrees would move the servo up approx. 5/8". This solves the cowling issue but creates a snorkel issue. If I raise the snorkel 5/8", I will have to cut the snorkel down where it hits the alternator and also fabricate a 7 degree offset wedge onto the snorkel flange where it bolts onto the fuel servo. I also loose the Vetterman 4 into 2 crossover and would have to go to a Vetterman 4 pipe system. I can trade my superior cold air sump with an individual to get the correct Titan 7 degree cold air sump. Not sure how hard it is to change the whole oil sump while the engine is on the plane. Still researching that project.

This could cause possible induction problems with a reduced airflow in the snorkel.* I found numerous builders that modified the snorkel by cutting it down to fit their alternators. Nobody seems to have complained though about a loss of power.Safety and reliability trump cost.

Solution 2
Run with what I have but end up with a blister on the cowling that I will spend a bunch of time trying to hide. I am not sure I could live with the blister exposed so I will try and hide it. If the blister isn't lined up just right I could have airflow problems. The blister would stick out 1/2" to 3/4" inch and be 4" long 1/2 to 2/3rds the way down the slick cowl. It weakens the cowl on part of the front facing side of it. Not an ideal solution. I can then use the Vetterman 4 to 2 crossover system. Keep the superior cold air sump with the current injection system.

Thoughts gentlemen?

I have a Titan IOX-370 with the ECI 7 degree cold sump and an Airflow Performance injector. I had the same issue as you and ended up mounting a removable air scoop. It would have actually been an easier task with the standard (non-tilted) induction. My only option would have been the bulge too, which I thought would be ugly and difficult to make symmetrical. Not sure if this will help but you can see more on the blog at http://www.marksrv8.com/2016/07/08/engine-air-induction/. If you think this might help, you can PM me and we can talk some. Good luck. Where there's a will there's a way!

Edit: By the way, I had NO problems with Vettermans 4 pipe exhaust with the ECI induction

Sound like solution 2 fits your wallet, at the moment. I had to put two bubbles on my SJ cowl for clearance of the filter housing and Vetterman trombone exhaust (as Tom mentioned above).

The second, smaller blister/bubble is not in this photo but is aft and above the one you can see. Took about an hour on the second one since I was able to re-use the foam form I'd made for the first one shown below.

Hi Andy, I can't see your pictures - no idea if others can. I just get a grey do not enter icon.

I'm going through the same process - I have cold air induction and an AFP FM200 and it's longer than expected, so I've build my own snorkel. I thought I had enough room, now I see that I need to create about 1" of space down near where the snorkel meets the throttle.

I've just started with the cowl mod, and I'm sure it will take a lot of time and patience to make it look decent.

Thankfully there are a lot of good fiberglass hints on this website.

I am not sure why you can't see the pics. I use Google chrome and they come up everytime.

Status update
After numerouse conversations with the manufacturer and other builders the only route to go is to modify the cowl. I have a brand new titan 7 degree sump that I will be selling.

The issues created by adding the 7 degree sump are that it would force me to cut into the snorkel. I would then restrict the airflow to the engine possibly causing a slight power decrease. I would need to hack into the snorkel around 7/8" on the top to gain the alternator clearance. I would also have to buy the Vetterman 4 pipe system. I already have the 4 into 2 pipe Vetterman exhaust system.

The cowling has been cut open and the mods have been made to it. I have been working on the plane a lot the last two weeks. The cowling mods are not that bad. See following pics:

I'm getting the gray no pic icon as well...

I reuploaded the pics hopefully this works

I'm not seeing the images either. This is what I see instead:

Clearances

Hi Andy, i can't see the photos either, any of them.

Not sure why you're having clearance issues.. I've just installed the trombone exhaust on a Titan io-360, superior cold air horizontal sump, Avstar injection (identical to silver hawk) and smooth bottom cowl on my RV-7 no issues whatsoever.

BluSkyRidr said:

I reuploaded the pics hopefully this works

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If you can see them, but we can't, maybe it's a permissions issue. Can they be set to be public?

Thanks,
Russ

So what's the deal?

Simon Hitchen said:

Hi Andy, i can't see the photos either, any of them.

Not sure why you're having clearance issues.. I've just installed the trombone exhaust on a Titan io-360, superior cold air horizontal sump, Avstar injection (identical to silver hawk) and smooth bottom cowl on my RV-7 no issues whatsoever.

Click to expand...

I saw Andy's plane yesterday after the cowling mods and a couple of weeks ago beforehand. No question there were clearance issues before. Andy and the guys at Synergy did a very nice job modifying the cowling to fit.

What I can't understand is that with an identical configuration (OK, a Titan IO-370 vs. IO-360) - Andy had issues and you did not. Is the 7 cowling profile radically different from the 8?

In any event, I have the same concerns with clearance, although I am using an RSA-5 (EX-5) servo which is shorter than the Silverhawk. I do have a -7A which should not affect anything except the exhaust system. I am seriously considering the extended Sam James cowling, along with the M Hub Hartzell composite. Despite the fact that some posters insist the cold air sump makes no difference for the cowling, it appears that it does. The four pipe Vetterman is no longer available for the -7A according to Clint. I think this would all fit and allow the use of the Vetterman trombone exhaust with no modifications to the cowling. . Anybody have this configuration and can verify?