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cylinder temps

dmeloche

Well Known Member
I've recently started flying my rv6 (i sent doug an email announcing the event but it never got posted, oh well). It is equipped with a aerosport 0-320-D1A turning a MT two blade C/S obtained from Van's. It has 12 hrs on it now. This engine/prop combination seems perfect for this airframe and I wonder (and am sometimes concerned) that it is the only one I know of. It has the standard van's baffle system.
I am noting high temperature spreads between the fore/aft cylinders. I have installed some "ramps" in the cowling inlet trying to drive more air to the rear cylinders which has helped a little. Interestingly enough the hottest cylinder is the right rear one, not the left rear which i thought would be adversely affected by the oil cooler mounted to the baffles. In high power cruise (25^2) i am seeing 435F on the right rear cylinder and 370F on the right front. According to the lycoming manual 435F is the highest temp for high power cruise settings. EGT's are seeing a similar type temp distribution. I'm not sure if the high EGT is due to the high cyl temp or if the cylinder is running lean and driving the CHT.

Should I be concerned about these temps?

Any ideas to get a more even temperature spread between fore/aft cylinders?

thanks
doug
 
Baffle Gaps and leaks

For one thing you have a new engine which will run hot and it is summer, but anything over 400F CHT not normally a good thing. I would shoot for something well below 400F in cruise, and my goal is never exceed 400F except for a short time. Of course with ot air temps and new engine this may be normal. Here is some tips I posted in the Lycoming engine yahoo group.


All Lycoming Cylinders are the same, no matter where they are mounted, left or right, front back, there is no difference one interchangeable cylinder is used. However they are not symmetric front to back/top to bottom. There are shorter fins and longer fins on the cylinder heads. On the Cyl 1 and 3 (aircraft right) the short fins are on the aft side of the Jug. On Cylinders 2 and 4 the short fins are facing forward. Lets take each cyl separate:

Cyl #3: (right rear) tends to be the hottest in part due to the airflow going into the cowl is asymmetric, meaning more air is coming in the left side (cyl 2 and 4) than the right side, influenced by the prop wash and angle of attack of the air going into the inlets. Less air goes in the right side (cyl #1 and #3). This has been verified by NASA and flight test. However it tends to even out by the time you get to the back cylinders.

The real reasons for the high #3 temps is the aft facing fins, slightly less cowl inlet airflow and wrapping the baffle too tight. The easiest thing to do is modify the baffle gap.

CLARIFICATION: What do I mean by baffle gap. Most people build their baffle tight around the cylinders, tight on the aft side of Cyl #3 & #4 and tight around the front side of Cyl #1 & #2, so that the aluminum baffle touches and sits directly on the Cyl fins. You know what I mean. Look at a use baffle. You see the cylinder fins have worn grooves into the lower baffle that wraps around the lower part of the jug and head. They are touching. As I mentioned cyl #3 has the aft facing short fins against the baffle. By giving a small gap between fins and baffle you will increase airflow around this cyl. How much gap and how to assure a gap? Place 2 washers under the baffle mounting screw to open the baffle up slightly around the rear of #3. It does not take much. You may see a
30-40F temp drop. It works.


Cyl #1 runs cool because it is near the front cowl inlet and the long fins are fwd. The baffle adjustment here is block #1 cyl to increase temp, which may block the whole front of the head. You must experiment and what you do here affects #3 to an extent: (Note: blocking is a ramp not a flat vertical plate)

http://img330.imageshack.us/my.php?image=frontbaffle34wd.jpg


Number #2 does not run as cool as the other fwd Cyl #1. Although the right side (#1 cyl) has less flow it has the fwd facing long fins against the baffle. Number #2 (left front) may be OK or run hot just like #3 and for the same reason, the baffle wraps around the short fins. If it is too hot (relative to #2 or #4) a small gap between the lower wrap around baffle and cyl fins may help. This is done like Cyl #3 explained above but less gap may be required. If for some reason you need to increase Cyl #2 temp, smaller block plate like cyl #1 may be in order. It takes trial and error of baffles spacing and blocking plates. Use metal tape for temp fit of blocking plates to figure out what works
best.

Cyl #4 should be ok should be the nominal temp you are shooting for. #4 is not real adjustable, but assure the other 3 cylinders, #1, #2 and #3 are as balanced as possible. By blocking #2 a little (if it is too cool) you may drop #4 a little.

If you have soft seals to the cowl they may be leaking. Make sure they fit perfect and not gaping in flight. That is why the sealed HARD TOP plenums are better, they leak way less. Also calibrate your CHT probes to make sure they are accurate. The Well type is the kind Lycoming uses to base their limits on. The ring spark plug type suck and tend to be inaccurate in my opinion.

The stock cowls usually have plenty of inlet area, just make sure you have no leaks and the exit is smooth. Install a sheet or lip at the bottom of the firewall adjacent to the exit. You don?t want that sharp corner at the top of the cowl air exit. Kent Paser, Speed with economy, spells this out in his book. He also discusses the baffle mods I discuses to an extent. If you do all this you will get cooler cylinders and less drag. Builders/pilots take their baffles for granted. They are an important part of the engine and airframe.

Also make sure there is no casting flashing in the fins that are between the valves. These are the inner fins that are right in the center of the head.

Good Luck Cheers George.

PS: How much gap is enough. 2 washers worked 3/16" for one builder, but I have read over 2 inches in Kent's book, which seems excessive. Also the washer trick is crude and there are probably better ways to add a space or gap between the fins and baffle. Also as you add gap to say the #3 cyl you will see that you will have a gap at the edge of the baffle that air can escape from , with out cooling the cylinder, so a edge flange may help control or channel the air flow down and around the cylinder vs. just out the sides. I used high temp silicon to make baffle spacers and edge seals.
 
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dmeloche said:
(i sent doug an email announcing the event but it never got posted, oh well).
I plead my stupidity!!!! Dmeloche, I put your detailed F.F. report and pics in my 'RV of the Week' folder - it's scheduled to go out next Monday. Sorry for my screwup!:eek: (using the 'embarassed' smiley).

B,
 
baffle gap

I created a 3/16" shim and placed it between the baffles and #3 cylinder. I flew it today and noted a 25F drop in temps on that cylinder! I'm now getting 402F on #3 @ 25^2 at 3000ft and oat of 28C. thanks for the idea! i never would of have thought of it!

doug
 
Good thanks for the data

That is great, glad it helped.

I would suggest you get them all balanced and may be a little more baffle gap would help. How are the fins in the center of the head? Free and clear?

Keep working at it. OAT was only 28C (82F) and you are still at +400F. 82F is not really that hot. You really need to get below 400F for max engine life if at all possible. If your #1 & #2 jugs ore over cool make those smooth blocking ramps to get more air to the back. Consider a little more baffle gap. Kent Paser is a real smart guy and did lots of flight test and suggest even bigger gaps.

Cheers George
 
i'm going to make a 1/4" shim and install it next time i have the cowling off. i also did clear out the fins between the valves on #3.

doug
 
That was a great tutorial on overheating rear cylinders---thanks for the info GMC! I have the opposite problem; overheating front cylinders! I'm seeing very high temps during climb that sometimes cool down in cruise (but occasionally don't!). I have to nose the airplane over to 170 to 180+ indicated sometimes to get them to come down. Any ideas? RV-4, IO-360, C/S, "standard" Lycoming 360 GAMInjectors, JPI Instrument engine monitor (all cylinders). My rears are running 330 to 350, the fronts 420-430 during 120-130 mph climb, they slowly cool down after level off, but sometimes still stay above 410-420 for several minutes. Engine sounds and runs well, plenty of power, mag checks fine, leans properly, etc.

Shiloh
 
Weird #1 & #2 are the hot ones?

I would expect #2 to run a little hotter than #1. #1 should not run hot at all, and in no case should #1 or #2 (front jugs) run hotter than #3 & #4 (rear jugs). However that is your case :eek: .

I guess open up the gap between baffle and fins on Cyl #2 and lower the baffle down the front of cyl #1 (exposing more of the cylinder to the incoming air). Do you have the fiberglass ramps that bond into the inside top of the cowl, to smooth the airflow out? Doubt that is a factor but had to ask.

Can you change/switch probes front to back? I assume you are using the well type CHT and not a spark plug ring type CHT probe.

I guess there is a whole world of engine issues that can cause cylinders to run hot or lean: air leaks, spark plugs, timing and so on. You have FI and should have good matched flow? I assume the EGT's are matched? I am out of ideas. :eek:

You say IO-360? Is that (200HP) angle valve? I am not sure of the fin configuration of the angle valve head vs. those of a parallel valve head.

Good luck George
 
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Front cylinders running lean?

Do the fronts run hot at all throttle settings? If you do not have ramps in front of the cylinders that are blocking too much air, it may be that your front injectors are not flowing enough fuel?

When you carry out the Gami leaning test do all the cylinders peak together? If they do it is not a fuel flow problem. If they don't contact Gami, sometimes they have to adjust their injectors on Lycs (apparently Continentals are much more predictable). You should be able to get your cylinders within 20 or 30 F of each other. Make sure you have no leaks in your baffles.

Pete
 
I'd check the wiring

logansc said:
That was a great tutorial on overheating rear cylinders---thanks for the info GMC! I have the opposite problem; overheating front cylinders! I'm seeing very high temps during climb that sometimes cool down in cruise (but occasionally don't!). I have to nose the airplane over to 170 to 180+ indicated sometimes to get them to come down. Any ideas? RV-4, IO-360, C/S, "standard" Lycoming 360 GAMInjectors, JPI Instrument engine monitor (all cylinders). My rears are running 330 to 350, the fronts 420-430 during 120-130 mph climb, they slowly cool down after level off, but sometimes still stay above 410-420 for several minutes. Engine sounds and runs well, plenty of power, mag checks fine, leans properly, etc.

Shiloh

The RV4 cowling may be way different, but it still seems physically impossible for the fronts to run hotter than the rears. I'd bet a buck you've got the probes wired backwards. Next flight, disconnect your #1 probe and see which one drops out on your JPI.
 
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