Future-proofing for IFR

I plan on a day/night VFR aircraft with all Dynon display: no round gages, no vacuum pump. Backup will be an iPad running WingX or similar, perhaps connected to a portable AHRS connected to static and pitot air lines.

However as I approach installing the instrument panel I don't want to preclude IFR-legal flight. To that end I have some questions. I'm not instrument-rated now so these are probably naive.

• What is the cheapest GPS nav that is IFR legal and will connect to the Dynon Skyview? I would like to make a space for it now on the panel, but not purchase it yet.
• Given the above proposed instruments, there wouldn't be such a thing as partial panel. If the Skyview fails, backup is the iPad which would have artificial horizon, etc. Would examiners accept this? Could I get the aircraft re-certified to IFR without any traditional round gages?
• Would CFIIs accept instructing in an all-glass, E/AB airplane? I assume it would be somewhat easier to learn because your brain doesn't have to learn to integrate several needles into a flight and navigational picture.

Thanks and let me know if this is wrong-headed...

1. "cheap" and "ifr legal gps" do not go together. The least expensive new ifr gps is the Garmin GTN series. Older used boxes have less capability, but a Garmin 300 com/gps (TSO 129) can be found for around $3K.

2. There is no such thing as "ifr certified". Your operating limitations most likely allow ifr operation if you are equipped per FAR 91.205. Those FARs say nothing about backup instruments or redundancy. (For normally certified aircraft these requirements are buried in the type certificate data). Back up is left to your good judgement. Examiners are allowed to decline flying in an E-AB, but here in NorCal there are some that will.

3. I've instructed ifr in a glass RV, so I'm sure others would, too. BUT I would not fly in actual IMC in an airplane whose backup flight instruments were iPad based. I'd want more than that. Is glass easier? It's different. But often glass panels have lots of equipment (gps, autopilot) and you need to master it all. That includes flying on your backup, whatever that may be.

What Bob Said...

You need to assume that any instrument on your panel (or the entire electrical system) can fail at any time while you're in IMC.
In the "old days", we had vacuum driven instruments that operated independently of the electrical system. Electrical failure didn't effect our heading or attitude, typically only the turn coordinator, and that was backed up by bank angle on the AH. Loss of vacuum left us with the turn coordinator, altimeter, VSI, ASI, whiskey compass and timer to allow us to keep right side up, make heading changes and to get down safely. Loss of static was countered by the alternate static source or by breaking the VSI face. If you were flying single engine with a single alternator, loss of electrical pretty much demanded declaring an emergency due to nav and comm requirements.
In setting up your panel, you need to have backups that will give you heading, attitude, turn rate, altitude, airspeed, and perhaps vertical speed - and they should operate independently of the main electrical system and main EFIS. Should all of these backup functions be carried out by a single instrument - not my choice. You'll also need an alternate static source and should also consider a heated pitot. Most importantly, you should be proficient in using only the backups, or you should not be exercising instrument privileges. Oh yeah, and all of the backups that you're betting your life on (with the exception of a handheld radio) should be part of the aircraft, not on an Ipad/portable computer.
I like that you're thinking far ahead in your equipment planning. Making accommodations for possible future capabilities is something I wish I'd done a better job of during my build.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP

Hi Ralph,

I can relate to your goal. It's been my goal too.

A lot of things "in the panel" can be changed with "reasonable" effort. I'd focus on the stuff not in the panel. Retrofitting a heated pitot is not easy and mad even harder if there was no plan for it. Similarly, setting up a redundant electrical system has both logical and physical considerations. Ask yourself what antennas you will need and figure out where they will all go along with where their coax will run. Adding antenna locations later is much more work if you didn't plan for them.

All three of the above added considerable effort, head scratching, and un-gentlemanly language in my shop

The best way to plan for the future is to vision it. Determine how much of that vision can be easily deferred vs what will be hard to do later. Technology will change but some basic requirements will be stable.

Without reading the regs in detail, to be IFR "legal" you need flight instruments (on your EFIS) and an approved navigation source. So, you could do it with a single Nav/Com. An SL-30 (<$3,000 used) would give you navigation and the ability to fly VOR, LOC and ILS approaches. You would not be allowed to file /G, but you could fly GPS direct en route base doctor Dynon GPS (ATC may question that, but I've done it on more than one occasion, on an IFR flight plan in VMC).

Now on the practical end of things, here is the minimum I would recommend.

1. Have a backup that is made for doing what you are doing with it. Dynon D-1, TruTrak Gemini or ADI, GRT Mini, MGL, etc. if you plan a 3 1/8" hole in your panel for one of these, you can upgrade for as little as $1,000 used.

2. The Nav radio can get you on the ground safely, but you have to be much more on your game to fly an approaching it. Also, if ATC gives you an airway to fly, you may be able to simulate with the Dynon GPS, but you will need to tune the VORs en route, which will greatly increase workload. An IFR GPS would be my recommendation. Minimum, IMHO, go with a Garmin 400W. No NAV radio, but certified for en route and approach /G. You can get one of these for under $4,500 if you're careful, and you will need the $500 ARINC module. You can cut the hole in your panel and cover it for now, but make sure to get tray dimensions and cut your sub panel to accommodate the tray now.

In summary, the minimum I would recommend to upgrade a Dynon-only panel to IFR (legal and safe) would cost as little as $6,000. A small price to pay, IMHO.

Regarding the ipad, I use mine all the time for charts and plates. In a pinch, I would use it for attitude if I had no alternative. But, I WOULD NOT depend on it as my main backup, not if I don't want my children to be fatherless. I've had too many flights where it gets overheated in the sun and shuts off while it cools down. Yes, this requires you to be in the sun, but you usually will be VFR on top (or at least VMC) for the majority of your IFR flying.

I set up my panel for future IFR upgrades with an open spot in the radio stack for a GNS430W or similar. I may also consider going with a remote mount VAL Nav unit that can connect to my GRT Sport.

Regarding backups, I wouldn't be comfortable with the iPad, although I love mine for other uses. Consider that for the same price as an iPad you can probably find a used Dynon D10 or similar. I bought a D10 here for $500 and it has an internal backup battery as well good for two hours.

In an IMC instrument failure the last thing you need is to be fumbling with an ipad. Plus, if using the ipad for charts and approach plates, you have now lost the ability to reference those.

Just my thoughts

Chris

All--

Thanks for your very helpful replies. You've convinced me that an iPad is not a proper IFR backup. The good news for me is mechanical round gages are not required; I could use an independent Dynon, for instance.

I would much prefer GPS for navigation rather than VORs so will concentrate on that option.

For the curious I'll explain what I have planned now as a VFR aircraft. It's all-electric with electronic ignition (dual Lightpeed) and Dynon's heated pitot. Because of that and the all-electric panel I have a standby 20amp alternator, a backup battery for the Skyview display, and of course the single starting battery. All gadgets except ignition will be controlled by a Vertical Power VP-200 unit...I got the last one sold I think. It offers very nice solutions for E-Bus power and so forth.

My sense is that today's non-certified all-electronic panels with solid-state gyros and compasses are more reliable than dry vacuum pumps, mechanical gyros and electro-mechanical gages. Also I've seen in the news the occasional horrific accident involving a gradual partial instrument failure of a traditional system catching even well trained professional pilots unawares. At when a glass panel fails it's obvious.

I live in California's Central Valley (near Sacramento). It is common here to have a fog layer in the winter with ceilings a few hundred feet high and a few hundred or a thousand feet thick. Nearby on the coast, summer stratus layers are common, ceilings a little higher and maybe a little thicker. So my IFR mission interest has always been to deal with these cloud layers, and not so much flying trips in IMC.

Are you based at KEDU? If so then an ifr approved gps makes sense, as there are no other approaches there other than gps. But, at this time, the lowest approach minimums are a tad under 500' agl. So ceilings 'a few hundred feet high' will still shut you out.

BobTurner said:

Are you based at KEDU? If so then an ifr approved gps makes sense, as there are no other approaches there other than gps. But, at this time, the lowest approach minimums are a tad under 500' agl. So ceilings 'a few hundred feet high' will still shut you out.

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KDWA (Yolo Airport). Sure, I couldn't get in 100% of the time...but it would provide more options than I have now as VFR only.

Cooling the stack

You may want to plan on some form of cooling for your radio stack. I sandwiched my 400w between the transponder and nav radio. On hot days the screen would fade due to heat to the point I couldn't use it. Believe me, routing cooling ducts and a fan after the fact is no fun. If I had thought about it ahead I probably would have come up with a way to bleed a little outside air from the starboard NACA scoop for cooling the radios.

John

jpowell13 said:

If I had thought about it ahead I probably would have come up with a way to bleed a little outside air from the starboard NACA scoop for cooling the radios.

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John - After a little more thought you would probably come to the conclusion that directing humid air and precipitation directly onto your radio stack is a recipe for shortening the lifetime of your expensive avionics. I know this is done on some certified aircraft, but fortunately we are blessed with the freedom to discard old bad ideas when they no longer make sense!

- Matt

Old systems with partial panel failures did not always result in horrific accidents. You only read about the ones that did. My Bonanza would have something fail (alternator, vacuum pump, wiring or regulator) on the average about every 300 hours. IFR, I always treated an electrical problem as the emergency it was. 300 hours in my 7 I have had an alternator, regulator and a broken wire each stop the flow of incoming volts. I have also had a new piece of Dynon equipment short and disable the network backup. I have always told people that is not if something will fail but when.

I've got two 7" Skyviews. Get at least one 10". If you get more than one, put the 2nd within your line of sight so you can easily admire all that money you spent. You may as well get 2020 compliant now. Yep, bite the bullet and get an IFR GPS now rather than have to add something piecemeal later. It is a lot easier to build now than add later. Most likely cheaper to do it once also.

Good point

Good point Matt. The fan I bought from Steinair works well.

John

Buggsy2 said:

KDWA (Yolo Airport). Sure, I couldn't get in 100% of the time...but it would provide more options than I have now as VFR only.

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Yolo has LPV approaches which will get you home in all but the worst fog. To use them you'll need a newer, WAAS (TSO 145/146) gps.

Cooling air for avionics

I disagree that using outside air is a problem. I have owned 4 Mooney's and all of the avionics cooling was set up using the right side ramped fresh air duct (similar to a NASA duct). The duct was designed to drain water in the lower rear/bottom of the duct. Fresh air for the cabin comes from the middle rear and radio cooling from the top rear. Have had no problems in 3500+ hours with cooling air being wet. This system requires no power and has no chance of electrical noise or electrically powered fan failure.

Take a look at how this was accomplished on a Mooney by looking at how it is set up on a 201 or 231. The device is on the outside wall of the cabin next to the co-pilots right knee or the pilot's left knee....