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  #21  
Old 03-07-2010, 07:04 AM
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gblwy gblwy is offline
 
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Location: Perth, Scotland
Posts: 494
Default Episode closed

Not sure photos explain anything.

The root cause of my problem was having the spar rollers the wrong way around. The plans are clear and correct. I just second guessed them. The wing won't fit that way, period.

I just tried again having reversed the rollers. Both wings slid straight in, and so did the pins.

Replacement parts are on order, including 500 rivets ;-) so I can redo the stub spars at my leisure happy in the knowledge that the wings WILL fit.

Thanks all for your help/advice...Keith
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  #22  
Old 03-07-2010, 07:22 PM
Mich48041 Mich48041 is offline
 
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Location: Riley TWP MI
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Default Murphy's Law

You had a 50-50 chance of getting the rollers orientated correctly. Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. At least you are going to fix it the right way. Some others might file down the tabs until the wings go in. The plans could be modified to add a couple of extra rivets next to the small end of the roller. This would ensure that the roller can only be installed one way. Two rivets cost less than a lawsuit, not to mention saving builder frustration.
Joe
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  #23  
Old 03-07-2010, 07:34 PM
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MartySantic MartySantic is offline
 
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Joe, The plans are more than adequate here. You gotta follow them!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mich48041 View Post
You had a 50-50 chance of getting the rollers orientated correctly. Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. At least you are going to fix it the right way. Some others might file down the tabs until the wings go in. The plans could be modified to add a couple of extra rivets next to the small end of the roller. This would ensure that the roller can only be installed one way. Two rivets cost less than a lawsuit, not to mention saving builder frustration.
Joe
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  #24  
Old 03-07-2010, 08:18 PM
Mich48041 Mich48041 is offline
 
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Default Now you tell me

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Originally Posted by MartySantic View Post
Joe, The plans are more than adequate here. You gotta follow them!!!
Marty,
Now you tell me, after I had to order extra parts to replace the ones that I damaged. LOL
Joe
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  #25  
Old 03-07-2010, 10:45 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Default

The best guidance for RV-12 builders that run into any situation similar to the one that perpetuated this thread (something not working the way it is supposed too), is to not do anything it does not specifically say in the construction manual unless you call technical support at Van's first.

In this case, the manual does not say to file on the stub spars if/as needed.
The only time the manual says to do any filing on these parts is during wing construction. Even then, it says to do only enough to get a close fit between the parts so that they fully mate together.

If something doesn't seem to be fitting like it should, it is pretty much a certainty that something is wrong.
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  #26  
Old 03-08-2010, 01:58 AM
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gblwy gblwy is offline
 
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In my defense the note at the top of Page 30-03 says "If the stub spar interferes with installation of the wing the stub spar may require local dressing with a file". That's the point at which I got started. When I got beyond the point of "local dressing" (probably way past that point) I stopped to reconsider.

If the note had said "The stub spars are important structural components". They should fit without adjustment" it would be more helpful. I guess the instructions are fine for fools, but not good enough for **** fools ;-)

Murphy's Law (variation on) If it is possible to fit a part the wrong way, someone will. Enough said.
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  #27  
Old 04-11-2010, 07:45 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
 
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Default Wing fit.

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Originally Posted by Geico266 View Post
Marty & I were talking about a loosing fitting wing after the get the wings in place. If you grab the end of the wing you can get it to "rock" fore & aft. This is before you put the seal on. Any movement in this area is not good, IMHO. We took a .020 shim and cut it to fit in the front or rear spar. This took up the extra space and took care of the "slop". The wings are now rock solid.

If you are building the wings do not remove a lot of material on the front and rear spars that fit into the sockets. Easy does it with material removal in this area.
Today we installed the wings for the first time. They fit very tight and solid. However, when I lift the end of the right wing something shifts a tiny bit, enough to make a bit of a clunk. I think there is just a bit of play in the front spar tab/socket. (I did not remove any material from the tabs during wing construction.) I wonder if I should consider adding a shim as you fellows did. Or maybe when the seal is installed the movement will go away. Thoughts?
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  #28  
Old 04-11-2010, 08:37 PM
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MartySantic MartySantic is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
In this case, the manual does not say to file on the stub spars if/as needed.
The only time the manual says to do any filing on these parts is during wing construction. Even then, it says to do only enough to get a close fit between the parts so that they fully mate together.
Scott,

Beg to differ a bit. The general instructions, tell you to remove the machining marks/nubs from the parts to eliminate any stresses. In this case, that is all I did. Yet still needed a small shim.

Maybe in this case, a special instruction in the plans is needed to ensure the builder removes ZERO material from these areas. When I fitted the parts per the plans, they fit just fine. Now I realize, a loose fit here would NOT be detected.

Your comment?
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  #29  
Old 04-11-2010, 08:45 PM
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MartySantic MartySantic is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn View Post
Today we installed the wings for the first time. They fit very tight and solid. However, when I lift the end of the right wing something shifts a tiny bit, enough to make a bit of a clunk. I think there is just a bit of play in the front spar tab/socket. (I did not remove any material from the tabs during wing construction.) I wonder if I should consider adding a shim as you fellows did. Or maybe when the seal is installed the movement will go away. Thoughts?
Do you notice the slight play when you rock the wing up/down or fore/aft. The shim I needed was for fore/aft.

The wing root seal will most definitively help here. All movement is lessened/eliminated with the installation of the seal.
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  #30  
Old 04-11-2010, 10:39 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartySantic View Post
Scott,

Beg to differ a bit. The general instructions, tell you to remove the machining marks/nubs from the parts to eliminate any stresses. In this case, that is all I did. Yet still needed a small shim.

Maybe in this case, a special instruction in the plans is needed to ensure the builder removes ZERO material from these areas. When I fitted the parts per the plans, they fit just fine. Now I realize, a loose fit here would NOT be detected.

Your comment?
I think you missed the context of the original discussion. (And it doesn't help that I messed up and wrote wing construction...I meant fuselage construction.)
The builder was fitting his wings to the fuselage. I said that their was nothing in the manual that said to remove any material when test fitting the wings, only at the time of fuselage construction when they were directed to test fit the fuse parts to the already built wings.

I don't see the need for a special instruction. The way the manual is written the builder is expected to only do something if the are instructed to. The manual would be ten volumes if they were instructed in all of the things not to do.
Even when they are told to remove material, they are told to only do so if needed. Because they are designed to be close fitting parts, it is possible for a slight mismatch just from tolerances of the CNC punch machines. It sounds like yours fit fine. Some of them require a very small adjustment (the Teen Flight fuselage parts did).
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Last edited by rvbuilder2002 : 04-11-2010 at 10:41 PM.
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