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  #11  
Old 11-19-2018, 01:32 AM
Piper J3's Avatar
Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Hinckley, Ohio
Posts: 1,428
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I emailed Marvel Schebler as follows:

It has been reported in VansAirForceForums that your new MS80-430 Blue Epoxy Floats for Rotax 912 Bing 64 carburetor stick on the float bowl vertical guideposts and donít control float level correctly.

Do you offer lifetime warranty against fuel absorption and weight change? In other words, do you guarantee that your floats will not succumb to long duration exposure to both Avgas and 93E10 auto fuels? Do you also guarantee that float level is correctly maintained when using your new floats?

I donít want to purchase your new floats and discover same problems as Bing floats in a couple of years.

--------

I'll report Marvel Schebler response soonest...
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Jim Stricker
Hinckley, Ohio (1OA2)
EAA #499867
PPL/ASEL 1970 - Sport Pilot since 2007
80 hrs Flying Aeronca Chief 11AC N86203
1130 hrs Flying 46 Piper J-3 Cub N6841H
RV-12 E-LSA #120058 AWC July 2012 N633CM
RV-12 Bought Flying Oct 2015 with 48TT - Hobbs now 459

LSRM-A Certificate 2016
Special Thanks... EJ Trucks - Crew Chief A-4 Skyhawk
MJ Stricker (Father & CFI) - 1st Lt. Captain B-17H
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  #12  
Old 11-19-2018, 09:08 AM
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pstraub pstraub is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Galt, CA
Posts: 120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piper J3 View Post
I'll report Marvel Schebler response soonest...
Thanks Jim, looking forward to their response. I am sending you a pair of my heavy floats today.
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Paul Straub, First Flight May 5, 2017
N917PB, SN 120971
120 hours and counting.....
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  #13  
Old 11-19-2018, 11:57 AM
aviti aviti is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Ballwin, MO
Posts: 14
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I find it crazy that this is happening. Even more crazy is the fact that Bing could charge money for replacements after some users have only had them for a few hours. This seems like it should be easy for Bing to resolve and at no charge as they clearly have sold a defective product. A gas float that absorbs gas and no longer floats?

I am still early in my build so hopefully this will get resolved so by the time I buy my powerplant I won't have the issue.
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Tony Vitiello
Ballwin, MO
RV-12 ELSA
Tail kit complete
ULS Fuse kit in progress
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  #14  
Old 11-19-2018, 12:53 PM
Maverick 4003 Maverick 4003 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: N.E. Wyoming
Posts: 95
Default Rotax 912ULS carb floats

I concur w/ MCEMS. I am unaware of a diff. yr., design, etc. I had a 914T, sold w/ 325 TT, no float probs. 100TT on 912, prior to changing out to 912ULS now 210TT = no prob.on either. I use 91 no ethanol. However, I have a TX friend who has changed out 1 set after another, app. on yrly. cond. inspection...& yes, flies +++ hrs. annually, fresh fuel, never in storage, also 912ULS
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  #15  
Old 11-19-2018, 01:49 PM
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tomkk tomkk is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Port Orange, Fl
Posts: 836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piper J3 View Post
I emailed Marvel Schebler as follows:

It has been reported in VansAirForceForums that your new MS80-430 Blue Epoxy Floats for Rotax 912 Bing 64 carburetor stick on the float bowl vertical guideposts and donít control float level correctly.

Do you offer lifetime warranty against fuel absorption and weight change? In other words, do you guarantee that your floats will not succumb to long duration exposure to both Avgas and 93E10 auto fuels? Do you also guarantee that float level is correctly maintained when using your new floats?

I donít want to purchase your new floats and discover same problems as Bing floats in a couple of years.

--------

I'll report Marvel Schebler response soonest...
I've emailed them twice about this - they're not responding ...
__________________
Tom
Port Orange, Fl
RV-12 N121TK ELSA #120845; first flight 06/10/2015
RV-12 N918EN ELSA #120995 Eagles Nest Project; first flight 05/18/2019
SPA Panther N26TK in progress
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  #16  
Old 11-19-2018, 02:41 PM
Piper J3's Avatar
Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Hinckley, Ohio
Posts: 1,428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomkk View Post
I've emailed them twice about this - they're not responding ...
We'll give them a few days and then call them on the phone. They do answer the phone?
__________________
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Jim Stricker
Hinckley, Ohio (1OA2)
EAA #499867
PPL/ASEL 1970 - Sport Pilot since 2007
80 hrs Flying Aeronca Chief 11AC N86203
1130 hrs Flying 46 Piper J-3 Cub N6841H
RV-12 E-LSA #120058 AWC July 2012 N633CM
RV-12 Bought Flying Oct 2015 with 48TT - Hobbs now 459

LSRM-A Certificate 2016
Special Thanks... EJ Trucks - Crew Chief A-4 Skyhawk
MJ Stricker (Father & CFI) - 1st Lt. Captain B-17H
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  #17  
Old 11-20-2018, 09:34 AM
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Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Hinckley, Ohio
Posts: 1,428
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I just had another thought... just spitballing here... It seems that a lot of guys are "collecting" heavy floats. As an experiment, I wonder if maybe a hole could be drilled into the side of a Bing float and the inside hollowed out with a Dremel tool bit? Once complete, a patch could be applied with Proseal. Perhaps several grams of material could be removed and float would again be spec weight. I have to stop eating pizza for breakfast...
__________________
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Jim Stricker
Hinckley, Ohio (1OA2)
EAA #499867
PPL/ASEL 1970 - Sport Pilot since 2007
80 hrs Flying Aeronca Chief 11AC N86203
1130 hrs Flying 46 Piper J-3 Cub N6841H
RV-12 E-LSA #120058 AWC July 2012 N633CM
RV-12 Bought Flying Oct 2015 with 48TT - Hobbs now 459

LSRM-A Certificate 2016
Special Thanks... EJ Trucks - Crew Chief A-4 Skyhawk
MJ Stricker (Father & CFI) - 1st Lt. Captain B-17H
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-20-2018, 01:48 PM
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pstraub pstraub is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Galt, CA
Posts: 120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piper J3 View Post
I just had another thought... just spitballing here... It seems that a lot of guys are "collecting" heavy floats. As an experiment, I wonder if maybe a hole could be drilled into the side of a Bing float and the inside hollowed out with a Dremel tool bit? Once complete, a patch could be applied with Proseal. Perhaps several grams of material could be removed and float would again be spec weight. I have to stop eating pizza for breakfast...
Well, Dr Frankenstein...you should have a couple to play with on Friday, according to USPS
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Paul Straub, First Flight May 5, 2017
N917PB, SN 120971
120 hours and counting.....
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  #19  
Old 11-21-2018, 12:57 PM
Charlie12 Charlie12 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Port Orange FL
Posts: 21
Default another data sequence

My engine came with 861 182 floats in 2015. Per Service Bulletin I replaced them 10/2016 with 861 184 (2 dots) before ever running the engine. After a smooth first flight in 9/2016 I found fuel dripping onto the floor under the left carb. Left float pair weighed 7.21 g, right pair weighed 6.70 g. Replaced all four with 861 185 (3 dots), each weighing 2.79 g dry.

Engine began starting rough after about 20 months and 140 hours in 93E10 gas. Did annual insp. a few weeks ago at 24 months and 160 hours. Found evidence of long-term leaking from left carb inside cowling. Floats were resting firmly on bottom of float bowl and weighed 6.64 and 5.62 g each. I am surprised the engine didn't run worse. Right carb floats weighed 3.47 and 3.63 g and seemed OK. Replaced all four with new design 861 188 floats at $300. Have fingers crossed.

I have a lot of faith in Marvel-Schebler based on several decades of owning factory airplanes with MS carbs and never any mention of float issues. But it seems my engine won't tolerate floats weighing much over 7 g per pair, the limit that the Rotax manual suggests. Can't convince myself MS floats are OK based on what several of you are reporting. I want to.
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RV-12 #120768, first flight Sept. 2016
180 hrs as of 1/1/2019
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  #20  
Old 11-21-2018, 07:34 PM
AirHound AirHound is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: OFallon IL now, everywhere before
Posts: 301
Default Are these just VANS phenomenaís ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie12 View Post
My engine came with 861 182 floats in 2015. Per Service Bulletin I replaced them 10/2016 with 861 184 (2 dots) before ever running the engine. After a smooth first flight in 9/2016 I found fuel dripping onto the floor under the left carb. Left float pair weighed 7.21 g, right pair weighed 6.70 g. Replaced all four with 861 185 (3 dots), each weighing 2.79 g dry.

Engine began starting rough after about 20 months and 140 hours in 93E10 gas. Did annual insp. a few weeks ago at 24 months and 160 hours. Found evidence of long-term leaking from left carb inside cowling. Floats were resting firmly on bottom of float bowl and weighed 6.64 and 5.62 g each. I am surprised the engine didn't run worse. Right carb floats weighed 3.47 and 3.63 g and seemed OK. Replaced all four with new design 861 188 floats at $300. Have fingers crossed.


I have a lot of faith in Marvel-Schebler based on several decades of owning factory airplanes with MS carbs and never any mention of float issues. But it seems my engine won't tolerate floats weighing much over 7 g per pair, the limit that the Rotax manual suggests. Can't convince myself MS floats are OK based on what several of you are reporting. I want to.
Are engines around the world are having similar issues and is Bing fast tracking fixes? Or is this like the Vans voltage regulator rectifier configuration phenomena ?
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