VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #1  
Old 02-07-2019, 10:31 AM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Granada Hills
Posts: 141
Default RV-12 with Ul260Is

Thoughts on this combo, pro's and cons, in a RV-12. What does it do to the dry weight, and how much is left for #'s with a full tank of fuel for payload?

Durability?

Prop selection?

maintenance costs saved due to lack of a gearbox like on a 912 ULS?

Performance?

Fuel consumption?

Affinity for 100LL vs Mogas?

Maintenance expenses?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-07-2019, 10:11 PM
rongawer rongawer is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brentwood, CA
Posts: 440
Default 350iS

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinerBikes View Post
Thoughts on this combo, pro's and cons, in a RV-12. What does it do to the dry weight, and how much is left for #'s with a full tank of fuel for payload?

Durability?

Prop selection?

maintenance costs saved due to lack of a gearbox like on a 912 ULS?

Performance?

Fuel consumption?

Affinity for 100LL vs Mogas?

Maintenance expenses?
I have the UL350iS and am quite happy with it. There are a few builders who have the 260 and can provide their input, however, my advice is to go with the 350. It has more torque (236) and horsepower (130), but is essentially the same engine as the 260 with the only difference being a longer stroke. I weighed my engine with the oil in it and the wet weight hanging on the mount is 159.2 pounds, and then there is another 13 pounds for the fuel filters and pumps, dual ignition packs and ECU. The coil packs are best mounted on the firewall, the ECU is mounted in the instrument bay and the fuel pumps and filters are mounted below the baggage compartment with a header tank for a short, high volume suction line and longer high pressure line to the engine. You do need to run a return fuel line (incidentally, this is the same general design the 12iS now has).

The drawings say the 912 is 160 pounds, so they’re almost the same, however the engine CG is farther aft (no gearbox out front) which provides pushing the engine mount forward a couple inches which gives some extra room to reach in behind the engine if needed.

I have the WhirlWind GA-UL350-2B propeller, which works very well.

My airplane weighs 785 pounds, but that’s with a full IFR avionics, GTN625, dual G3X package, wing fuel tanks, heated seats, and many other modifications - it’s definitely E-AB. But I can load two people, full fuel and 100 pounds of baggage and climb out at Vy 1200 (GW)/ 1400 (solo) fpm, and cruise climb 800 (GW)/ 900 (solo) fpm @90KIAS at that weight. I economy cruise 120KTAS at 7500’. If you’re inclined, you can go faster.

I burn 91 unleaded, which is preferred over leaded fuel. You can burn 100LL, but that reduces oil changes to 50 hours down from 100 and you need to use mineral based oil instead of synthetic.

I’ve not had a Rotax, so I can’t speak to any savings in maintenance. For the UL engine, the maintenance is pretty simple and mostly consists of annual inspection, oil and filter changes. It has an EFII that provides instant starts and very smooth operation. As for durability, it has been reliable for me; I fly it almost every day as my work commuter and have over 200 flights since I started flying it last August, and it’s started every time.

The hardest part was getting the firewall forward put together, as in cowl, mount and oil cooler setup. But there’s lots of lesson’s learned available within our group of UL builders; so it’s fairly straight forward now. I’m pretty happy with the engine. It’s dirt simple to operate and maintain. The startup procedure is essentially, turn on the ignition, press the starter, wait for oil temp to get above 105º (which is there about the time i get to the runway), check both ignition packs (Right, left, back to both) and go fly.

If you’re serious about it, you should contact Ray Laurence at Kaolin Aviation and he’ll help you out.
__________________
Ron Gawer

- RV10, Build in progress.
- RV12, N975G, "The Commuter"
- Several others that are now just great memories for me.

Last edited by rongawer : 02-09-2019 at 08:27 AM. Reason: clarification
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-07-2019, 10:40 PM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Granada Hills
Posts: 141
Default

Ron,

Thanks for your input.

Maybe if I am up your way sometime, I'd like to see your RV-12, and a short example of climb rates. I'm a little tall at 6' 5" and 250 #, so usually run something thinner in the seat pad and back rest to make me fit. I do sit probably 3 or 4 " lower and closer to the top of the wing, if that affects your CG. Current arrangement is a summer lawn chair seat pad and a moving blanket set up 4 layers thick.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-08-2019, 05:42 AM
pierre smith's Avatar
pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,829
Default Ray Lawrence

My buddy, Ray Lawrence owns Kaolin Aviation in Sandersville, Ga and has cowls, baffles and motor mount for the UL engines and has a 6 cylinder 200 HP engine in his RV-4. Call him at 478 232 9560. I'll be running the 130 HP UL engine in my -12.

Best,
__________________
Pierre Smith
RV-10, 510 TT
RV6A (Sojourner) 180 HP, Catto 3 Bl (502Hrs), gone...and already missed
Air Tractor AT 502B PT 6-15 Sold
Air Tractor 402 PT-6-20 Sold
EAA Flight Advisor/CFI/Tech Counselor
Louisville, Ga

It's never skill or craftsmanship that completes airplanes, it's the will to do so,
Patrick Kenny, EAA 275132


Dues gladly paid!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-08-2019, 10:18 PM
rongawer rongawer is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brentwood, CA
Posts: 440
Default

I'm 6' 2" and about 200# and I fit fine with maybe 2" clearance above my headset to the canopy, although I do not use the extra wedges that the seats come with (my wife does though) and have the seat back at the aft position. I'm pretty sure you could have Abby at Flightline customize the seat bottom for you if you choose to upgrade from the lawn chair cushion.

You're welcome to come on up and I'll be happy to take you for a ride. BTW, with my setup, and assuming no more than 100 pounds in the baggage or exceeding gross weight limits - it's just not possible to load out of CG. From a pilot and zero fuel to just my wife, full fuel and 100# in the baggage compartment - it's within CG.

Pierre - good plan. I've given Ray tons of feedback on my installation, but if you have any questions, just let me know.
__________________
Ron Gawer

- RV10, Build in progress.
- RV12, N975G, "The Commuter"
- Several others that are now just great memories for me.

Last edited by rongawer : 02-08-2019 at 10:32 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-12-2019, 06:16 PM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Granada Hills
Posts: 141
Default

Not sure when, Ron, but will try to talk to owner of N936BL to fly us up there, maybe do a side by side comparison, take some pics, etc, in his 912ULS equipped RV-12. His is a 2015 build, finished in 2016. 753 pounds, as is, with Dynon D1000 Touch.

Consider it a curiosity comparison. He's only at 140 hours now on his 912ULS and whole plane. But he is old school, and likes the idea of no gearbox and direct drive. He is out of KWHP.

How do you fill up with Mogas to keep your UL350IS happy and deposit free on piston head, cylinder head and valves?

Last edited by NinerBikes : 02-12-2019 at 06:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-12-2019, 09:01 PM
rongawer rongawer is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brentwood, CA
Posts: 440
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinerBikes View Post
Not sure when, Ron, but will try to talk to owner of N936BL to fly us up there, maybe do a side by side comparison, take some pics, etc, in his 912ULS equipped RV-12. His is a 2015 build, finished in 2016. 753 pounds, as is, with Dynon D1000 Touch.

Consider it a curiosity comparison. He's only at 140 hours now on his 912ULS and whole plane. But he is old school, and likes the idea of no gearbox and direct drive. He is out of KWHP.

How do you fill up with Mogas to keep your UL350IS happy and deposit free on piston head, cylinder head and valves?
Iím always happy to get together. Just give me a heads-up a week or so in advance.

I burn 91 octane mogas. I have a transfer tank and pump that I fill up at the gas station and then just pump it into the airplane at the hangar; pretty simple really. My cylinders looked great at the 50 hour point - Iíll check them again at annual, but have no reason to suspect they look anything but great. With unleaded mogas, thereís not much to cause deposits. My CHTís run about 250-275ļ in cruise, so itís a very cool running engine. I havenít run much 100LL fuel, but used Decalin for the couple tanks I did use and then changed the oil. I havenít had any issues with fuel.
__________________
Ron Gawer

- RV10, Build in progress.
- RV12, N975G, "The Commuter"
- Several others that are now just great memories for me.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:09 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.