Van's Air Force
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Any regrets?
- Thread starter JohnJacobsen
- Start date
New style slider
If experimenting is the name of the game, I guess I qualify. I waited and worked with the developer and have the first carbon fiber canopy (now known as the Composite Canopy System or CCS) on a 9A. I am pleased and it does negate some of the problems of the original slider; it slides back over 5" further for better access to the baggage area, the roll bar is much smaller, there is no center brace in front or over head, and it looks cooler with no handles out in the wind. Also, it is a VERY simple install, taking only a couple hours, plus the time to glass in front of the windscreen. I just put the tail on yesterday, so I can't talk about flying, but I am happy at this point. I have some pics at www.missionmedia.org/RV-9A.html Click on the "Canopy" page from there. I will have some better pics up in a day or two as these were shot in a really dark hangar with mercury vapor lights.
Bob Kelly, Final Assembly (boy, does THAT sound good!)
If experimenting is the name of the game, I guess I qualify. I waited and worked with the developer and have the first carbon fiber canopy (now known as the Composite Canopy System or CCS) on a 9A. I am pleased and it does negate some of the problems of the original slider; it slides back over 5" further for better access to the baggage area, the roll bar is much smaller, there is no center brace in front or over head, and it looks cooler with no handles out in the wind. Also, it is a VERY simple install, taking only a couple hours, plus the time to glass in front of the windscreen. I just put the tail on yesterday, so I can't talk about flying, but I am happy at this point. I have some pics at www.missionmedia.org/RV-9A.html Click on the "Canopy" page from there. I will have some better pics up in a day or two as these were shot in a really dark hangar with mercury vapor lights.
Bob Kelly, Final Assembly (boy, does THAT sound good!)
JoeBlank
Well Known Member
Slider vs Tip Up
A couple of comments on the topic:
- If you are going to build the slider, weld on a couple of Grab Handles on the roll bar. Unless you have climbed in and out of them a lot, most people want to grab the fiberglass fairing which can crack it. It also makes it much easier (especially in a tailwheel RV) to pull yourself up when climbing out.
- Definitely sit in or fly both a sider and a tip up to see what the compromises are. They are both great configurations, and they both have their strengths and weaknesses. It's just trying to determine what you can live with or without that makes the decision hard.
- Construction of both is a daunting task, but there is lots of help out there. Choose the one that you want to FLY WITH, not the one that's easier to build. Building will only take a short (hopefully) period of time. You will be flying with your decison for years.
Just my 2 cents...
Joe Blank
RV-6
N6810B
(slider)
A couple of comments on the topic:
- If you are going to build the slider, weld on a couple of Grab Handles on the roll bar. Unless you have climbed in and out of them a lot, most people want to grab the fiberglass fairing which can crack it. It also makes it much easier (especially in a tailwheel RV) to pull yourself up when climbing out.
- Definitely sit in or fly both a sider and a tip up to see what the compromises are. They are both great configurations, and they both have their strengths and weaknesses. It's just trying to determine what you can live with or without that makes the decision hard.
- Construction of both is a daunting task, but there is lots of help out there. Choose the one that you want to FLY WITH, not the one that's easier to build. Building will only take a short (hopefully) period of time. You will be flying with your decison for years.
Just my 2 cents...
Joe Blank
RV-6
N6810B
(slider)
Liberty Ship
Active Member
I have a tip-up and love it. There are a few cautions, however. The tip -up is more delicate so I always push my airplane around with the canopy down. Wind and prop wash can be a problem. I also built a small handle at the top-aft point to help avoid twisting the glass when raising the canopy. It works great. But, the vis from the tip-up is the best. If you are going to fly formation (ever), do a tip up. I live in Florida and taxi with the canopy cracked, plenty of air flow. The real advantage is with the wiring and avionics. You will never be on your back chasing down a gremlin. If you build a slider (still a good choice), make sure you have your panel set the way you want it (for life)when you close it in. Good luck.........Pat Lee
CCS Canopy
A couple basic questions about the CCS...
Is there a metal roll bar as in vans design to protect incase of flip over?? If not metal, is it as strong as the original vans setup??
Are you going to install handles in the "roll" bar to help you get in and out??
It sure looks appealing -
Thank you
-Ron
videobobk said:
A couple basic questions about the CCS...
Is there a metal roll bar as in vans design to protect incase of flip over?? If not metal, is it as strong as the original vans setup??
Are you going to install handles in the "roll" bar to help you get in and out??
It sure looks appealing -
Thank you
-Ron
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n2prise
Well Known Member
Slider in flight...
Andy,
No! You don't want to think about that at all. Now for reality, I have taken off more than once with my canopy closed, but not latched. The air over the windshield tends to blow the canopy forward, but not all the way. Both times I have taken off with the latch not secured, I climbed to pattern altititude to trim the airplane at about 90 MPH, then the latch can be secured without any damage. I have left the canopy open all the way ONE time to taxi and realized that was a mistake -- but no damage to anything. Any charts or other light weight items in the cabin quickly become airborne and/or depart the airplane.
On landing roll out on hot days, I have opened the canopy about an inch or two at the most to get some extra air inside. The last time was when I arrived at Oshkosh 2006.
In case you missed it much earlier in this post, I have compiled the pro's and con's of each type canopy including some photos on my web page at this address: www.n2prise.org/TipSlide.htm The Meske modification gives the slider the best access to the baggage area over the standard slider and definitely better than the tip-up canopy.
Jerry K. Thorne
East Ridge, TN
RV-9A -- N2PZ
www.n2prise.org
Andy,
No! You don't want to think about that at all. Now for reality, I have taken off more than once with my canopy closed, but not latched. The air over the windshield tends to blow the canopy forward, but not all the way. Both times I have taken off with the latch not secured, I climbed to pattern altititude to trim the airplane at about 90 MPH, then the latch can be secured without any damage. I have left the canopy open all the way ONE time to taxi and realized that was a mistake -- but no damage to anything. Any charts or other light weight items in the cabin quickly become airborne and/or depart the airplane.
On landing roll out on hot days, I have opened the canopy about an inch or two at the most to get some extra air inside. The last time was when I arrived at Oshkosh 2006.
In case you missed it much earlier in this post, I have compiled the pro's and con's of each type canopy including some photos on my web page at this address: www.n2prise.org/TipSlide.htm The Meske modification gives the slider the best access to the baggage area over the standard slider and definitely better than the tip-up canopy.
Jerry K. Thorne
East Ridge, TN
RV-9A -- N2PZ
www.n2prise.org
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Tip Up or Slider???
I know it's been discussed here before, but I can't find any info lately. I am getting ready to order a QB fuse for my -6, and I need to let Van's know which one I want...Tip Up or Slider canopy.
I have flown a -6 and a -7 with a slider, but not a t/u. I like both, but I am leaning t/u...it just looks sleeker!
Opinions??????
I know it's been discussed here before, but I can't find any info lately. I am getting ready to order a QB fuse for my -6, and I need to let Van's know which one I want...Tip Up or Slider canopy.
I have flown a -6 and a -7 with a slider, but not a t/u. I like both, but I am leaning t/u...it just looks sleeker!
Opinions??????
keithschult
Well Known Member
Chances of this happening: miniscule
I have a slider on my 6A. And I like it, but I sure like the view out of the tip-up on my friend's 7. However, I had an incident two weeks ago that made me glad to have a slider on mine.
On a recent very cold day, I was doing run-up prior to departure when the right brake failed completely, putting hydraulic fluid all over the ramp. It was a half-mile taxi back to the hangar with only the left brake, while the right rudder worked when against the wind. A couple left turns and I found the wind at my back, rendering the right rudder useless. In my "smarts" I had failed to account for this tailwind in the last turn to the hangar. The result was the airplane continued to drift left at about 6-7 mph heading directly for a row of hangars. There was no grass to slow me down.
I pulled the mixture, switched off the ignition, undid the seatbelts, opened the slider, pulled myself out of the cockpit onto the wing, dropped to the ground, grabbed my step-up and stopped the plane before it ran into the hangars. The adrenaline was running. The plane stopped 3 feet short of a propstrike. I've never gotten out of the plane so fast and I'm not sure I could have done it in a tip-up. Maybe, who knows... but I'm glad I had the slider at that time.
FWIW
I have a slider on my 6A. And I like it, but I sure like the view out of the tip-up on my friend's 7. However, I had an incident two weeks ago that made me glad to have a slider on mine.
On a recent very cold day, I was doing run-up prior to departure when the right brake failed completely, putting hydraulic fluid all over the ramp. It was a half-mile taxi back to the hangar with only the left brake, while the right rudder worked when against the wind. A couple left turns and I found the wind at my back, rendering the right rudder useless. In my "smarts" I had failed to account for this tailwind in the last turn to the hangar. The result was the airplane continued to drift left at about 6-7 mph heading directly for a row of hangars. There was no grass to slow me down.
I pulled the mixture, switched off the ignition, undid the seatbelts, opened the slider, pulled myself out of the cockpit onto the wing, dropped to the ground, grabbed my step-up and stopped the plane before it ran into the hangars. The adrenaline was running. The plane stopped 3 feet short of a propstrike. I've never gotten out of the plane so fast and I'm not sure I could have done it in a tip-up. Maybe, who knows... but I'm glad I had the slider at that time.
FWIW
One point... put in some handles on a slider.
If you do build the slider... put on handles.
I am still building and love the roll bar now. I put two handles on it and find myself swinging in and out without needing to check where I grab or step. Other project visitors naturally grab the right thing without coaching. I take that as a good sign.
I was unable to make the aluminum skirt on the trailing edge of the slider fit like I wanted and ended up building a glass one. It fits tight and has a much better feel than the aluminum one I scrapped. I have my eye on an English wheel and some new ideas now for the next plane.
What is with those guys that build the tip up then put in a sunshade?????
If you do build the slider... put on handles.
I am still building and love the roll bar now. I put two handles on it and find myself swinging in and out without needing to check where I grab or step. Other project visitors naturally grab the right thing without coaching. I take that as a good sign.
I was unable to make the aluminum skirt on the trailing edge of the slider fit like I wanted and ended up building a glass one. It fits tight and has a much better feel than the aluminum one I scrapped. I have my eye on an English wheel and some new ideas now for the next plane.
What is with those guys that build the tip up then put in a sunshade?????
Sit in a slider and look around. As I was taxiing out this afternoon in my 8 I tested the 'blind spot' on the roll bar. As my head turned I saw everything out there, nothing was hidden.
If you have two eyes and are able to swivel your head you will have no concerns with a slider.
If you have two eyes and are able to swivel your head you will have no concerns with a slider.
Wes Hays
Well Known Member
Great advise TOAD. I put the handles on the rollbar of my 6-A Slider finished in 2000, and they are probably the most used addition I did to the plane. We use them on every entrance and exit, and I even hang on to them sometimes in cruise.
I highly recommend them.
Rick6a
Well Known Member
Rehashing the rehash
Personal taste and emotional investment are and will always will be the main driver here. It is not likely any minds will be changed once a canopy configuration decision has been made.
Like Mel and others, I'm as passionate about my slider choice as he is with the tip up. I simply prefer the way the slider looks and feels whether the canopy is fully open or fully closed. I like to conduct ground operations with the canopy wide open and one arm resting on the sill and is especially appreciated in hot weather. It lends a certain cool factor to the experience that cannot be denied. Handles on the roll bar make entry and exit easier. The Meske tip up mod can make baggage area access as convenient as a tip up while not giving up the undeniable sex appeal of the slider configuration.
I know this might sound kind of silly to some but major reasons why I decided to build an -8 include those gear towers, a throttle quadrant, and that big beautiful sliding canopy. Like I alluded to, personal taste and emotional investment are powerful, even inexorable forces not to be easily denied.
The tip up crowd are virtually certain to point to unobstructed visibility as the plum advantage in their choice. Maybe so, maybe so, yet a distinctive roll bar in front does not seem to diminish the look and appeal of dozens upon dozens of warplane designs you can think of from WWII to present day. The marginal decrease is unobstructed visibility is vastly overrated spin doctoring, IMHO. Pure partisan piffle. The seasoned P-51 jockey would look kind of __________ (you fill in the blank) while holding a "tip up" canopy from flopping around while taxiing past the crowd. Kidding, just kidding.
Personal taste and emotional investment are and will always will be the main driver here. It is not likely any minds will be changed once a canopy configuration decision has been made.
Like Mel and others, I'm as passionate about my slider choice as he is with the tip up. I simply prefer the way the slider looks and feels whether the canopy is fully open or fully closed. I like to conduct ground operations with the canopy wide open and one arm resting on the sill and is especially appreciated in hot weather. It lends a certain cool factor to the experience that cannot be denied. Handles on the roll bar make entry and exit easier. The Meske tip up mod can make baggage area access as convenient as a tip up while not giving up the undeniable sex appeal of the slider configuration.
I know this might sound kind of silly to some but major reasons why I decided to build an -8 include those gear towers, a throttle quadrant, and that big beautiful sliding canopy. Like I alluded to, personal taste and emotional investment are powerful, even inexorable forces not to be easily denied.
The tip up crowd are virtually certain to point to unobstructed visibility as the plum advantage in their choice. Maybe so, maybe so, yet a distinctive roll bar in front does not seem to diminish the look and appeal of dozens upon dozens of warplane designs you can think of from WWII to present day. The marginal decrease is unobstructed visibility is vastly overrated spin doctoring, IMHO. Pure partisan piffle. The seasoned P-51 jockey would look kind of __________ (you fill in the blank) while holding a "tip up" canopy from flopping around while taxiing past the crowd. Kidding, just kidding.
Just a little more fun poking from us short guys.
Unfortunately with my right hand on the throttle and left hand on the stick, my arm is not long enough to reach the sill.
