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  #1  
Old 10-28-2018, 09:04 AM
JDA_BTR JDA_BTR is offline
 
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Location: Baton Rouge, LA
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Default Flap-Aileron-Wingtip Alignment

I've read all the posts on this, but have a question with my setup.

I think that the flaps are designed to be fully up when they hit the stops. On my wings when I put the flaps in the up stop, and then apply the aileron alignment tool, my aileron edge is approx 1/4 inch below the flap. If I rig the aileron at the flap it will be higher than the tool shows.

I'm inclined to rig the aileron where the tool has it rigged, and then set the flap for full up where the aileron lines up.

The reason I care is that I'd really like to do my wingtips in the stand before I hang the wings on the plane.

Does anyone have a simple step by step so I can get it right in the wing stand?
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  #2  
Old 10-28-2018, 09:13 AM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
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The golden rule I tell builders is to defer wingtip fitup until after the wings are on the airplane (at least the temporary fit up).

Many people swear by the aileron alignment tool, but I offer that it only gets you in the ballpark. Get the wings on, make sure the flaps are really all the way up, rig the ailerons, have a couple of people check the rigging and then fit the wingtips.

Iím sure many have just rigged the wingtips in the stand as you suggest but why not wait until the wings are on and you can do some careful rigging? It is the same work either way and waiting may avoid a messy wingtip trailing edge cut and fix later on.

Carl
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  #3  
Old 10-28-2018, 09:32 AM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDA_BTR View Post
I'm inclined to rig the aileron where the tool has it rigged, and then set the flap for full up where the aileron lines up.
I believe you will regret that decision.

According to Van's for the 10, the definitive reflexed position is based upon the flaps when they are hitting the rear spar. The aileron jig 's purpose is for establishing a neutral setting on the bell crank during linkage adjustment and should not be used for aileron aliment, prior to rigging. There is an adjustment point between the bell crank and the aileron and this rod length cannot be properly set without first aligning the aileron to it's correct position. Once the rigging is done, that tool will be fairly accurate, but I still would not use it for wingtip alignment.

I assume the 14 is the same as it is the same wing design, but you will need to confirm that.

For the 10, On the stand, ensure the flap is hard against the spar (gravity will hold it there due to the offset pivot position), use a clamp to hold the aileron in alignment with the flap, then install wingtip in alignment with aileron.

Not sure why this would be any different on the plane vs in the craddle, as the flap position is pretty easy to find on the stand and don't see how it can change once on the plane.

While everything is clamped up, take the time to adjust both aileron control rods, as their adjustment requires that the aileron is locked on the reflex position. Both bell crank and torque tubes need to be in specific positions during this rigging.

I might also suggest you spend a bit more time with the assembly manual. You should not be proceeding on key steps like this until you fully understand it. It is not necessarilly a step by step guide.

Larry
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Last edited by lr172 : 10-28-2018 at 01:10 PM.
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  #4  
Old 10-28-2018, 12:19 PM
Jerry Kinman Jerry Kinman is offline
 
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Default Aileron Alignment

I'm inclined to rig the aileron where the tool has it rigged, and then set the flap for full up where the aileron lines up.

[/quote]

Since you did not mention which RV model you are building I will offer my experience with my RV-9A which I recently completed and just finished Phase One tests.

I aligned the ailerons with the alignment tool mounted to each bell crank and the straightedge method on the end rib as indicated in the assembly manual/drawings. Then I adjusted the upper flap limits to the ailerons. They both appear firmly flush with the fuselage when fully retracted. Both wingtip trailing edges were below the neutral aileron position enough that required some cutting and fiberglass modifications which were a PIA but after 49 hrs of flight testing the only additional rigging required was extending the right flap actuator rod one turn. No trim tabs were needed and the aircraft delivers Van's published performance numbers.

More experienced builders may have determined a better way to accomplish this procedure so I advise you to consider all options.
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  #5  
Old 10-28-2018, 12:41 PM
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M McGraw M McGraw is offline
 
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Default Previous thread on wingtips

Here is a post from a while back. I had to follow the setup described by Scott McDanials to get mine to fly straight without any trim.

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...1&postcount=11
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  #6  
Old 10-28-2018, 06:40 PM
Bavafa Bavafa is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M McGraw View Post
Here is a post from a while back. I had to follow the setup described by Scott McDanials to get mine to fly straight without any trim.

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...1&postcount=11
Plus one for this advise. Also, consider that the full up position of the flap is the reflex. The aileron neutral position ought to be the primary aim which then can be used as a reference point to setup other parts (wingtip/flap)
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  #7  
Old 10-28-2018, 10:02 PM
JDA_BTR JDA_BTR is offline
 
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So a lot of advice not to rely on the aileron template, but the aileron template is indeed the standard neutral position....

The reason I want to rig the tips in the cradle is it is really easy to get to both sides in that condition. I'd rather do it that way than gave to get upside down on the bottom. I'm planning a hinged assembly with just a few screws to keep it secure in the front and its a lot easier to hinge in the stand.

So it seems like clamp the aileron in place with the tool, then clamp the tip to the aileron and the end; and then get with the tip fitting.
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  #8  
Old 10-28-2018, 10:51 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDA_BTR View Post
So a lot of advice not to rely on the aileron template, but the aileron template is indeed the standard neutral position....
I would call Van's and get advice on this. With the 10 wing, the airplane flys with the flaps, ailerons, and wingtips in the 3* reflex position. I believe that the 14 is the same. Scott even refers to this in the referenced post. He says that the ailerons in the reflex position get a downward motion from the air stream, requiring 3/32" of additional reflex during rigging to offest the wind pressure. Or at least that is what they did on the demo plane. Scott is a very reputable source.

Please call, as rigging is not something to trust to conflicting internet advice. Two pieces of advice are coming from people who are building planes with a different wing than yours.

FYI, I did not advise against using the template. The 10 doesn't have that and was unaware of it. My suggestion was to follow the manual. What does it say about this?

Larry
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Last edited by lr172 : 10-28-2018 at 11:20 PM.
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  #9  
Old 10-28-2018, 11:00 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDA_BTR View Post
So it seems like clamp the aileron in place with the tool, then clamp the tip to the aileron and the end; and then get with the tip fitting.
If by "tool" you mean the jig that goes on the bell crank, let me repeat. That tool does NOT set the proper aileron position. It sets the neutral position of the bell crank. You then put the aileron in the proper position by adjusting the rod between the aileron and the bell crank, with the jig installed. You need a reference for aileron position - either the flap or the template.

I cannot imagine this data is not in the manual.

Larry
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Last edited by lr172 : 10-28-2018 at 11:21 PM.
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  #10  
Old 10-29-2018, 12:38 AM
n982sx n982sx is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lr172 View Post
If by "tool" you mean the jig that goes on the bell crank, let me repeat. That tool does NOT set the proper aileron position. It sets the neutral position of the bell crank. You then put the aileron in the proper position by adjusting the rod between the aileron and the bell crank, with the jig installed. You need a reference for aileron position - either the flap or the template.

I cannot imagine this data is not in the manual.

Larry
There are two tools for the 14, which is the airplane he is posting about. They are used at the same time and one sets the neutral position of the bell crank and one sets the position of the aileron in the reflex position.

Do what the manual says, it works perfectly. You can do it on or off the plane. It makes no difference since the tools are the reference to use. I did it off the plane and installed the wing tip.

When installing the wings and attaching the push rods to the sticks I confirmed the position of the ailerons with the tool while adjusting the length of the push rods to attach to the sticks in the neutral position. The push rod between the bell crank and the aileron needed no adjustment from the adjustment I made while the wings were in the wing stand.

Worked perfectly.
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Last edited by n982sx : 10-29-2018 at 12:42 AM.
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