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New Permanent TFRs

Makes me wonder if it's driven by the recent proliferation of civilian drones.

Bevan
 
Aren't these the same permanent TFRs that have been in place for years?
I know at least for Disneyland it has been 3nm and 3000' for as long as I can remember. I notice in the new wording the TFRs include model aircraft (drones?) which I've never seen before.
 
Aren't these the same permanent TFRs that have been in place for years?
I know at least for Disneyland it has been 3nm and 3000' for as long as I can remember. I notice in the new wording the TFRs include model aircraft (drones?) which I've never seen before.

That's the change as I understand it.

Of course we know how this will go. Some Dad flying an electric RC plane with his son in a park 2.3 miles away from a football game he knows nothing about will be the guy that gets busted...
 
That's the change as I understand it.

Of course we know how this will go. Some Dad flying an electric RC plane with his son in a park 2.3 miles away from a football game he knows nothing about will be the guy that gets busted...

All he needs is a clearance from SoCal approach....... like the rest of
us :D
 
Welcome to my world. Those of us flying out of the DC SFRA and FRZ well understand the Forces Of Darkness.
 
There's a permanent TFR around KBAB also...

This just isn't true.
Now, the NOTAM is frequently there, so you might think it's permanent, but there are lots of times when the TFR is not there.
In addition, if you contact ATC you can often transit thru. It's nothing like Disneyland, where the NOTAM is on 100% of the time and serves no real purpose except to keep noise down and make ride-goes think they're safe.
The KBAB TFR is for unmanned drone testing, and is there to protect us when they're testing these things. (KBAB is an air force base for those not local).
 
The KBAB TFR is for unmanned drone testing, and is there to protect us when they're testing these things. (KBAB is an air force base for those not local).

I talked with a U2 pilot based there, and you're correct - the TFR's are for the drones. Weathermeister sends me emails for new TFR's within 100 miles of home base, and yup - KBAB is in that circle. Every Sunday night, I get about 10-15 emails detailing the TFR's for the coming week - must be some enlisted man's job to post them. Then as the week progresses, I get cancellation notices for those TFR periods. The U2 pilot told me that they reserve all those times, but almost never use them because the drone is broken.

So the truth is - it is rarely actually active, like Bob says.
 
Aren't these the same permanent TFRs that have been in place for years?
I know at least for Disneyland it has been 3nm and 3000' for as long as I can remember. I notice in the new wording the TFRs include model aircraft (drones?) which I've never seen before.

For the life of me I can't figure out the intended purpose of these. Let's assume I'm a terrorist ****-bent on destruction, so I load up my little GA aircraft with explosives and fly over to Disneyland with the intention of crashing it and blowing it up.

How on God's green earth is this TFR supposed to stop that? By the time anybody notices I'm *in* it, what could they do? I could even go over the top of it at 3100', put the plane in a dive and be a smoking hole in the middle of the park before two sweeps of a RADAR.

Unless someone has a more well-stated purpose for these and the stadium TFRs and such, I think they're just plane silly.
 
For the life of me I can't figure out the intended purpose of these. Let's assume I'm a terrorist ****-bent on destruction, so I load up my little GA aircraft with explosives and fly over to Disneyland with the intention of crashing it and blowing it up.

How on God's green earth is this TFR supposed to stop that? By the time anybody notices I'm *in* it, what could they do? I could even go over the top of it at 3100', put the plane in a dive and be a smoking hole in the middle of the park before two sweeps of a RADAR.

Unless someone has a more well-stated purpose for these and the stadium TFRs and such, I think they're just plane silly.

Pun intended I'm sure.

I would guess the TFR's like Disney and major sporting events are more for the benevolent public and September 11 causing excess regulation.
 
Actually, I think they are just to prevent folks who tow banners from making any money.

For the life of me I can't figure out the intended purpose of these...
 
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Actually, I think they are just to prevent folks who tow banners from making any money.

And so Disney can provide an uninterrupted experience for mom, dad, and the kids. It is all about the money and not safety.

As for dad and the kid flying an RC plane inside a TFR, that has always been the case. Only dad and the kid have no idea about TFR's or any of that. Only the local RC club may know about them.

I agree that the idea of a TFR protecting anyone is just BS. Kind of like gun laws where the only people who obey them are law abiding citizens. Criminals don't care and don't obey.
 
I talked with a U2 pilot based there, and you're correct - the TFR's are for the drones. Weathermeister sends me emails for new TFR's within 100 miles of home base, and yup - KBAB is in that circle. Every Sunday night, I get about 10-15 emails detailing the TFR's for the coming week - must be some enlisted man's job to post them. Then as the week progresses, I get cancellation notices for those TFR periods. The U2 pilot told me that they reserve all those times, but almost never use them because the drone is broken.

So the truth is - it is rarely actually active, like Bob says.

The same thing happens at Sierra Vista/Libby Army Airfield (KFHU) on the border SE of Tucson.

However, since it is a UAV training spot and Border Patrol Predator base, it's probably more active than Beale...

It does seem strange to get a stack of TFR notifications at the beginning of each week, and then get daily cancellation notices. :rolleyes:
 
Ah, interesting. I didn't know KBAB TFRs are drone-related.

It seems every time I plan a flight around the area that TFR is active...
 
Not the FAA

Today's paper (byline LA Times) has an article on the Disney TFR. It says they are there because some unnamed congressman slipped it into a spending bill, at the urging of a Disney lobbyist. Disney had been fighting with banner towers. Paper quotes FAA Administrator Huerta as saying the TFRs would not be there under existing FAA rules, if it were not for the congressional mandate.
 
Today's paper (byline LA Times) has an article on the Disney TFR. It says they are there because some unnamed congressman slipped it into a spending bill, at the urging of a Disney lobbyist. Disney had been fighting with banner towers. Paper quotes FAA Administrator Huerta as saying the TFRs would not be there under existing FAA rules, if it were not for the congressional mandate.

I call BS on this...same silly logic exists for all the sporting event TFRs, and I doubt that Congressional lobbyists got involved in creating those. It was over-reaction by political know-nothings.

ETA: Well, I take that back...it does look like a Stevens and Shelby stuck that language in the bill. (I'd linethrough it, but don't know the HTML code offhand and I'm running late...). Disney aside, these TFRs are basically useless and stupid.

Again, I could fly a small plane into Disneyland or any major stadium before the authorities would be able to grasp what was going on, let alone do anything about it.

It's all just a fa?ade to make people *feel* safe. (With apologies to George Carlin, who put it a bit less PC).

The article is at http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-disney-airspace-20141110-story.html#page=1

The AOPA guy has it right:
Craig Spence, vice president of operations and international affairs for the association, said the restrictions served no real security purpose.

And here's the counterpoint, naturally from somebody whose job depends on people being scared of small airplanes:

Richard W. Bloom, director of terrorism, intelligence and security studies at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Prescott, Ariz., said although the no-fly zones were "certainly not foolproof," they "definitely have a deterring value" as one of many layers of security designed to protect American airspace.

Really? Seriously? Bushwa.
 
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"Again, I could fly a small plane into Disneyland or any major stadium before the authorities would be able to grasp what was going on, let alone do anything about it."

"WE" all know that, but don't want to tell "THEM" because "THEY" will think that "WE" are not with "THEM" and want "US" to stay on the ground where "WE" cannot possibly hurt "THEM". Besides with fewer of "US" up there, they can deduce that anybody who goes there is a bad person. The law and the regs are there to prosecute the violators and scare the next surviving bad guy.

SHHHH ....
 
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