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Security and the RV

LettersFromFlyoverCountry

LettersFromFlyoverCountry

Well Known Member
The thread on locking gas caps struck a chord with me as we've been kicking around the theft-prevention concepts surrounding the RV.

I don't have a key switch on my RV -- just a push-button for the starter and a separate switch for the master. I don't have a lock on the outside of the canopy, either. And as I'm considering the first long cross country trips, I'm undecided about an approach here.

If I put a lock -- a padlock, for example -- on the canopy handle, then someone who wants something inside will have to break the plexi to get in. On the other hand, once they break the plexi to get in, it's pretty unflyable. and on the other hand of that, once it's unflyable, that should prevent it from being flown. So...should I put a padlock on it?

So, if I put a padlock on, it appears I'm actually inviting a real destruction of the aircraft, as opposed to the simple theft of a few things inside.

There are a few things easily stolen from inside -- the Zaon PCS and the Garmin 296, for example. I could just take those out wherever and whenever I stop, but I don't like lugging a flight bag around when I visit places.

Besides, the Cleaveland 7A cover which I recently ordered, makes these attractions invisible unless someone steals THAT.

What say you?
 
Bob,

I have a locking canopy, same key as ignition, so no extra keys on the key chain. Obviously RV theft in this country has not been a problem, so I think any kind of ignition security system is overkill.

You're right, if someone wants into your plane, they're going to get in whether it's locked or not. However, I still feel more comfortable locking it and always do while on the road.

Risk vs reward, I think the benefits of a locking canopy as a deterrent outweighs the chances that some one will simply bust the plexiglass.
 
RV security

Bob: Wire starter power thru a "secret" switch. Mine is hidden in plane sight - but could be under/behind panel and, yes, must be manually turned on/off. Canopy lock on the sliding rail to prevent slider canopy from being opened from closed or partially opened position.
 
I also use the same ignition key for my canopy lock. It is not to prevent a determined thief, Instead it is to prevent an "incidental thief". Do you leave your (car/home) doors unlocked in order to prevent a thief from breaking your windows?
 
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I took a similiar approach as both Tobin and Bob.

I will have a cover when traveling away from home. Out of sight again keeps honest people honest and dishonest people not wanting to call attention to themselves by removing the cover. Then they'll see the locks on the doors.

I have locks on both passenger doors, as well as the baggage door. They are all keyed the same as the ignition key. To be honest, the locks are for appearance only. I can still get in with a screwdriver or pry bar if I was going after the avionics. Anyone knowing what they are doing can uninstall the radio stack, GPS (430/650), and EFIS screens pretty darn quick.

My hope is that the visible locks will keep honest people honest and cause the dishonest to move on to another unsecured aircraft on the ramp. It's all about risk management. Transfer the risk if at all possible. Anyone not familiar with a RV-10 may not want to spend the time to deal with the locks or breaking out a window.

I'm sitting on the fence in regards to the fuel cap locks. They only stop sabotage and not theft. I think I'll accept the risk here for the time being.


bob
 
My security system has worked well so far all over the east coast, Bahamas and Canada: Canopy cover, throttle lock with a combo padlock, and remove anything which is easily removed (headsets, gps, blistex, etc.) I do not have a locking canopy or keyed ignition.
 
My -7 was built from a wrecked piper arrow, so I have a piper style key'd ignition switch and a piper door-lock cylinder to lock the canopy. Works well. If I didn't have the key I'd at least want to provide for a padlock for leaving the plane on an unfamiliar ramp for extended periods and do some kind of starter lock-out (even if it was a switch labeled "radios" or something else in plain sight)
 
hawkeyestof said:
Bob: Wire starter power thru a "secret" switch. Mine is hidden in plane sight - but could be under/behind panel and, yes, must be manually turned on/off.
Click to expand...
That is on our list of things to do...
Still won't stop a hand prop...

The throttle lock is good to keep honest people honest, but not that difficult to remove or bypass.
 
I have left my airplane parked over night or days at many airports. A few of them are not attended or without a fence. Luckily I have not lost anything. Probably most local thieves found copper wires and car radios easier to sell. However, several years ago a pilot friend had his radio stack stolen. A pilot thief flew in in the evening and got in his unlocked airplane. The thief took out radio, transponder, etc (you know how easy it is to take them out) and replaced with identical ones from another airplane. My friend did not find it out until he had his radio serviced and the avionics shop found his serial number on the stolen radio list.
 
tc1234c said:
I have left my airplane parked over night or days at many airports. A few of them are not attended or without a fence. Luckily I have not lost anything. Probably most local thieves found copper wires and car radios easier to sell. However, several years ago a pilot friend had his radio stack stolen. A pilot thief flew in in the evening and got in his unlocked airplane. The thief took out radio, transponder, etc (you know how easy it is to take them out) and replaced with identical ones from another airplane. My friend did not find it out until he had his radio serviced and the avionics shop found his serial number on the stolen radio list.
Click to expand...

That happened at an airport near here once. I've also heard of people swapping out junk/broken gear for good, especially into planes that don't look like they get used much (which is most... :-/ )
 
I'm guessing someone might notice if someone walked up and starting smashing your plane up. If it's not locked, someone could just walk up, open the canopy and help themselves and no one would say or do anything, not knowing if it was his plane or not.

If you apply your logic to your car, you would never lock it.

If it's locked, someone won't be tempted to just lift the lid and take whatevers sitting right there. It takes a little more time and effort for a would be thief to figure out how to break the canopy and get away clean with no witnesses.

If you padlock it, the thief could just cut the lock off and then take whatever he wants. He doesn't have to break the canopy to do so.

Lock it up!

Vince
 
Hi Bob,
Good post! Before deciding on a particular control method of securing your aircraft, lets look at common threats and risks that we are trying to protect against at an unfamiliar airport. Of course there is no way to protect against all threats completely. But understanding the risk and threat let you determine the best kind of control needed. Ultimately a layered security posture is the most effective.

By layered I mean that there is no one "thing" that makes our plane secure on the ramp. It is many things that we do. Think about your bank. It doesn't just have a security guard in the lobby to protect your money. They have a security system, timed vault doors, double keyed safe deposit boxes. Even the arrangement of the parking lot is part of the security.

Fuel theft
Locking fuel caps are like a lock on a garden shed. The thief knows whats inside and wants it but only if it is fairly easy to get to. There is a risk that the thief doesn't care and removes the drain plug, or worse just uses something to puncture the tank. Locking fuel caps will protect against most kinds of theft. They tell the thief "go to a different plane, this one is hard to get to". Only a locked hangar or 24-hours surveillance will guard against the other types of theft and damage. Locking fuel caps are a very good, inexpensive control. I should have put them on my tanks, but didn't. I'll have to come up with a retrofit.

Avionics theft
One thing we have working for us is time. It takes time to remove these devices. Thieves have to weigh the risk/reward. If the reward is unknown they may move on. Get a nice opaque piece of fabric. On the ramp, drape the fabric down over the panel effectively hiding it from view. A nice canopy cover or sunscreen can do the same thing but the fabric is super cheap.

Aircraft theft
I know that there are lots of opinions on this. I am going to have an ignition key. Not because I think it is the perfect theft control, but because it takes time to defeat. Again, time is on our side. If the thief can break a lock, jump in and push two buttons to taxi away, then we're making it easy on him. If he has to get into my plane, then hot wire it then Im making it hard on him. I am making him take more time; time that I hope someone notices him. If he takes off with my plane I probably wont be getting it back anyway so I'm not terribly concerned about damage. Prop locks and throttle locks are all easy to defeat by themselves, but as a layered approach to securing the aircraft they are really effective. The message to the thief is "my plane is hard to steal...go find something easier".

Tell people and ask questions. Let the fuel guy, the desk clerk and anyone else who will listen how long you will be there. Let them know that you are the only person who should be accessing your aircraft. Leave contact information with the desk so you can be contacted if something happens. When visiting a new field for an overnight try to park where people can see your plane. If it is hidden off in a lonely corner of the field, then it is unnecessarily vulnerable. See if they can hangar your plane at night. Some places may charge for this, but it is cheap insurance. Lastly, listen to your gut. If something doesn't feel right, it probably isn't. Take off and find another airport.
 
Lemmingman said:
Hi Bob,
Avionics theft
One thing we have working for us is time. It takes time to remove these devices. ....
Click to expand...

You might want to re-think that one. As Bob Leffler pointed out, it takes no time at all if you know what you're doing (and most avionics thieves do). I can easily remove a radio in under 30 sec. (half that if I had a powered hex driver and I sliced the harness off instead of unscrewing the connectors).
 
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how do you do

tobinbasford said:
Bob,

I have a locking canopy, same key as ignition, so no extra keys on the key chain. Obviously RV theft in this country has not been a problem, so I think any kind of ignition security system is overkill.

You're right, if someone wants into your plane, they're going to get in whether it's locked or not. However, I still feel more comfortable locking it and always do while on the road.

Risk vs reward, I think the benefits of a locking canopy as a deterrent outweighs the chances that some one will simply bust the plexiglass.
Click to expand...

Hi, please post pictures of your installation
 
I've mulled this over several times, especially since I've had friends have avionics stolen.

I think the best defense would be a simple cover to go over your avionics stack to 1. prevent the thief from knowing whats behind it and 2. to slow down the thief sufficiently enough that he would have second thoughts about it in the first place. The cover could be secured easily with four security torx screws that would take a minute or two to install.
 
my $.02

Years ago someone posted that they would prefer to fly home without radios than without radios and a shattered canopy.
I feel the same way - I have a canopy cover and an ignition key switch but no canopy lock.
 
Does anybody have an statistics on aircraft theft? How often, type of crime, location, other factors?
 
I didn't install a lock and I don't plan too. My defense against theft is a canopy cover on those really rare over-night trips and good full-coverage insurance.

I'm realistic, if they want my avionics, their going to take it and no cheesy lock mechanism is going to stop them. Instead of just loosing my avionics, I'll have to replace a canopy, most likely at a airport far from home. So, when putting on that lock, imagine be stuck at the airport replacing you canopy!:eek:
 
JonJay said:
Does anybody have an statistics on aircraft theft? How often, type of crime, location, other factors?
Click to expand...

I guess this thread raises my curiosity - does anybody have any statistics on RV theft? I can't recall hearing of one - but certainly spam cans are stolen, as are avionics.
 
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the legal liability of having what I think lawyers call "an attractive nuisance". If you have no theft controls at all and the local 15 year old decides that he can fly, you will undoubtably hear from his family's lawyer if he hurts himself.

I've noticed the insurance company asks about a hangar, but nothing else along the lines of theft prevention. I think their experience is that nothing practical will stop a professional thief, and the non-pros are too few to worry about.
 
BobTurner said:
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the legal liability of having what I think lawyers call "an attractive nuisance". If you have no theft controls at all and the local 15 year old decides that he can fly, you will undoubtably hear from his family's lawyer if he hurts himself.

I've noticed the insurance company asks about a hangar, but nothing else along the lines of theft prevention. I think their experience is that nothing practical will stop a professional thief, and the non-pros are too few to worry about.
Click to expand...

And to piggy-back on this line of thought (security vs anti-theft), are there any TSA related issues with respect to unlocked aircraft sitting on the ramp?

How about if flying out of the country to say Canada, Mexico or the Bahamas? Any recommendations pro or con for these scenarios?

Since I'm starting on my RV-10 doors this weekend, this subject of locks is very timely.
 
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Avionics theft would concern me parked out for any length of time. Why not slip those high dollar boxes out of their trays and take them with you? Make up some kind of foam lined carry case, then slip them back in their tray when you’re ready to go.

PS Engineering video here at the 30 second mark showing how easy it is to slip one out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qp19iXhPOA

pk
 
Pk,

Are you kidding? I can barely carry the 100 lbs of baggage let alone another 25 lbs of avionics. Then I could not leave the expensive avionics in the hotel...so I'd carry it to the hiking trails, dinner, fishing boat charter, pool/beach, bathroom, bar then back to the hotel. I would not travel if I had to do that.

Easier fix: Mine is labeled, "Insured by Smith & Wesson".
 
auto theft alarms

many of the auto theft alarms have pretty nice radar detectors for detecting when people get too close. I had one installed in my BD4 (after having all my avionics stolen) and it worked great. I could set the sensitivity of the radar to only go off when someone was right up against the cockpit side window or door. The siren was located in the bagage compartment and also had a flashing LED I mounted protruding out the pilot door. At night you could see my plane flashing a 1/2 mile away. Only down side is if you don't fly for a couple of weeks your battery will be drained. I left mine connected to a trickle charger between flights when home and was never on a cross country long enough to worry about.

I've thought about the same thing for my -8 but have not gotton around to it yet.
 
...Only down side is if you don't fly for a couple of weeks your battery will be drained....
Click to expand...

Could this alarm be set up to be active only when switched on? Or would it be a constant drain anyway?

Thanks,

Dan
 
There's some info on aircraft theft and burglary here:

http://www.acpi.org/

On the whole it appears that aircraft theft is an increasingly rare event. I'm not sure what the motivation would be to steal an RV, other than perhaps joy-riding?
 
I'm less worried about someone stealing the aircraft.

I have parked at fly-ins and come back to find people leaning on the extended flaps, up on the wing, actually turning the prop and a bunch of other mindless stuff. Typically, they're not aviators and don't like to have you tell them not to do that no matter how reasonable or polite you try to be.

The "radar alarm" mentioned above seemed interesting.

Dan
 
Auburntsts said:
And to piggy-back on this line of thought (security vs anti-theft), are there any TSA related issues with respect to unlocked aircraft sitting on the ramp?

How about if flying out of the country to say Canada, Mexico or the Bahamas? Any recommendations pro or con for these scenarios?

Since I'm starting on my RV-10 doors this weekend, this subject of locks is very timely.
Click to expand...


I don't think the TSA has any requirements for GA, but some airports and some states do. For instance, IIRC, at the Teterboro airport aircraft are required to have at least two theft deterrent systems. i.e., door locks and throttle lock, or throttle lock and kept in a locked hangar, or some other combination. I don't know if KTEB really enforces this, but I am pretty sure there are other places around the country with similar requirements. I have no clue how you would find out if a particular airport has any requirement. Most of these were put in during the immediate aftermath of 9/11 with no consideration for how practical they would really be. (Kind of like TSA now that I think about it:rolleyes:)

I have door and baggage compartment locks as well as locking fuel caps. I always put the canopy cover on if leaving the aircraft overnight. Sometimes I even put it on if the airplane is going to be kept in a large hangar with other airplanes. I just feel like if someone can't see what is inside the airplane they might be less likely to try to break in. If I had to choose one or the other, I would rather have the canopy cover than door locks. I have the VP-200, so the airplane cannot be started unless you know the "secret code":cool:.
 
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More fuel for the fire...

err, thought provoking info.

Years ago, the prototype RV-8 was flown to the Rocky Mountain fly-in by Tom Green. After leaving the airport in the late afternoon of arrival, he later realized he needed something he had forgotten, and went back to the airport to get it out of the plane. Walking out to the ramp he noticed a bunch of people standing around the plane (not unusual since it was very new and not a lot of people had seen it). As he got closer, he realized people were sitting in the plane. A bit rude, but people think a company plane is there for their benefit. The problem is, the airplanes canopy had been locked when he left (the canopy lock used the lock assembly that comes with the ignition switch). Someone tried a random key on their key chain and it opened.

One other data point.... years ago, when I worked for an aircraft parts / maintenance business, we had a ring of about a dozen airplane style keys. 95% of the time, if I went out to do some work on an airplane that was locked, I could open it with one of those 12 keys.
 
DanBaier said:
I have parked at fly-ins and come back to find people leaning on the extended flaps, up on the wing, actually turning the prop and a bunch of other mindless stuff. Typically, they're not aviators and don't like to have you tell them not to do that no matter how reasonable or polite you try to be.

The "radar alarm" mentioned above seemed interesting.
Click to expand...

Now if you could just couple the radar alarm with a target tracking system and one of those rock-vaporizing lasers like the Mars "Curiosity" Rover has, boy, you'd have some security! :eek:

Of course, you'd need the nuclear reactor that powers the dang thing as well....:rolleyes:
 
My canopy has a lock, but I never use it. As others have said, it is easier to replace the radios than the canopy.

Starting the engine on my airplane doesn't require a key. I've never worried too much about it for several reasons. First, there aren't that many pilots who'd steal an airplane. Second, my airplane is a taildragger, which further reduces the chances of aircraft theft, since 75% of today's pilots couldn't fly it anyway. Third, any person who is into stealing aircraft can figure out how to hotwire one anyway.
 
No real problem

Seems we are attempting to come up with elaborate solutions to a problem that doesn't really exist. Sure there have been occasional radio thefts but I haven't heard of any RV's being stolen and haven't heard of any thefts from them. At least at the dozens of airports I've been.

I think a throttle lock is a good idea, if it makes you feel better:) (I don't use one). I have a key switch and remove the keys.

Locking gas caps are probably a good idea but same deal, I haven't heard of gas thefts. Maybe it has happened but I think someone would go for a larger airplane for this.

A canopy cover is a good idea for both a theft deterrent and the elements. As for canopy locks, latch locks etc. Kind of a waste of time.

As has been noted, if someone wants something, they will get it. I'd prefer to keep it unlocked and let them steal stuff, than have to build a canopy.

Just watch where you park. Stay away from airports South of the tracks in seedy neighborhoods:eek:
 
DanBaier said:
Could this alarm be set up to be active only when switched on? Or would it be a constant drain anyway?

Thanks,

Dan
Click to expand...

Dan, yes depending on the features on the alarm. If you are not interested in a remote wireless arming key fob thingy then you can purchase a system which only draws power when you activate by switch mounted someplace in or on the airplane. I used one with a wireless key fob which keeps the receiver powered all the time. Some of the really sophisticated alarms these days can send you a text msg or call the police when activated. The alarm I installed cost about $150 weighed about 1 lbs - do not remember the brand but it was not the least expensive model and certainly not the most expensive. Most have far more features than you'll ever need but even this one came with several door switches, a relay to disconnect the starter solenoid, a relay to flash lights, relays to activate door locks, and a motion detector. I tried the motion detector for awhile but this was a really bad idea - duh :) The radar detector versions are typically set-up for convertibles since the volume inside the car cockpit is easily accessible without opening a door.

While it may very well be true not many RVs have had theft of equipment I can tell you from my experience with the BD4 it will not make you a happy camper - especially as you are loading the family up for a 4 day camping weekend and do not notice the empty instrument panel until the plane is loaded, and the kids are all strapped in :( The dirty, rotten stinking thieves took EVERYTHING out of the panel and left all the harnesses neatly draped through the holes. It must have taken hours to remove the pitot/static instruments. They were obviously very comfortable working in my nicely enclosed hangar late on a Thursday night. It took me nearly a month to settle with insurance and purchase suitable replacements. I'm certain a $150 horn blowing at 130 dB 2.5ft behind their ears would have prevented them from accomplishing their mission - if nothing else from the shear annoyance of it.
 
I have a canopy lock on my 9A, using the same key in the ignition. I am more inclined to think the casual intruder is more likely to be a problem than the pro. I hope to keep both out, but if not, I have insurance. I like the key for another reason; I know the mag switches are off when I have the key. Yes, I know about broken wires causing hot mags, but I worry more about the RV-12 with switches. Another item on the check list, prior to the "burping" routine.

Funny event from years ago, before anyone worried all that much. One person at our airport chained his prop. He wasn't a very friendly guy, and certainly not popular. Someone (we won't go into the "who" here) decided, "why be half safe?" and added a second padlock to the chain. It was pretty funny to see him try to cut the lock. Sorry for the old war story...

Bob
 
Cover recommendation?

This is a very timely thread. I've been thinking about installing a canopy lock on my 7 slider but the cover only argument makes a lot of sense to me. Can anyone recommend a good cover or should I have one made locally?
 
i guess ill keep mine locked, canopy cover on, panel covered, fingers crossed. by the response of all here unlocked, they will probably just go to your plane and get the easy takings. they would be disappointed when they got to see what was in my panel anyways. old school and well used. insured too. hope it never happens to anyone. can you imagine, where did my plane go?

the other day a not so much of a friend wanted to get back on a practical joke on a good buddy, rver, and use my hangar to hide his plane on him. i thought, you got to be out of your mind!!! i politely said no. not interested. what are people thinking? he asked me not to say anything to my buddy, called him the next day and spilled the beans. funny thing, his response would of been to just get on the phone and call the police. how would of that have been on the guy trying to pull a practical joke on him.
img1168rc.jpg
 
If you really feel you need an immobilizer, maybe one of the key fobs like the cars use now, with power to the RF circuit wired to the left mag switch, and the "detection" circuit wired to the starter?

Personally, I have toggles for the mags and the starter (with a flip-cover on the starter), and the only lock on the plane is on the canopy latch. I don't want a keyswitch on the panel, the key fob just flops around during aerobatics.
 
RV8R999 said:
Dan, yes depending on the features on the alarm. If you are not interested in a remote wireless arming key fob thingy then you can purchase a system which only draws power when you activate by switch mounted someplace in or on the airplane. I used one with a wireless key fob which keeps the receiver powered all the time. Some of the really sophisticated alarms these days can send you a text msg or call the police when activated. The alarm I installed cost about $150 weighed about 1 lbs - do not remember the brand but it was not the least expensive model and certainly not the most expensive. Most have far more features than you'll ever need but even this one came with several door switches, a relay to disconnect the starter solenoid, a relay to flash lights, relays to activate door locks, and a motion detector. I tried the motion detector for awhile but this was a really bad idea - duh :) The radar detector versions are typically set-up for convertibles since the volume inside the car cockpit is easily accessible without opening a door. .
Click to expand...

Interesting this topic of a simple aircraft alarm should come up again! Some years ago a now deceased early rv-10 builder envisioned such a system...that we planned on developing. Unfortunately he died before the plane was ever finished and we could work on the project. That being said, if someone is interested and has the time/motivation to do this, I was granted and own a current US utility patent on such a device (aircraft security alarm system) - just sitting in the file cabinet waiting!

Cheers,
Stein
 
Re: Gas Cap Locks

I have never understood gas cap locks. IIRC, you put the gas IN from the top (at the gas cap), but you take it OUT at the bottom (at the drain).

If I were stealing fuel, I would have an adjustable wrench in my hand, and a container. I'd just remove the drain, and let the gas run out into my container.

I suppose gas cap locks would prevent anyone from fueling your plane without your presence (not a bad idea).

What am I missing???:confused:
 
Hi Pete,

I think what you are missing is that you will never be sure that someone has not placed something into your fuel tank.

Lets hope it never happens.

Cheers

Julian
RV 120316
 
That had not even occurred to me.:eek: You are talking about intentional sabotage. YIKES.

Could happen, I suppose. What's the world coming to??
 
Refuel with water

PCHunt said:
I have never understood gas cap locks. IIRC, you put the gas IN from the top (at the gas cap), but you take it OUT at the bottom (at the drain).

If I were stealing fuel, I would have an adjustable wrench in my hand, and a container. I'd just remove the drain, and let the gas run out into my container.

I suppose gas cap locks would prevent anyone from fueling your plane without your presence (not a bad idea).

What am I missing???:confused:
Click to expand...

A number of years ago there was an aircraft (can't remember what type) that had fuel stolen, but to hide the theft the mental midget who did the deed refuelled the tanks with water. Fortunately no one was killed, but the aircraft was wrecked.

If another pilot was the culprit then, I hope, that unless they were some kind of psychopath they would at least have the knowledge not to refill the tanks. However the most likely thief for avgas around this part of the world is some "hoon" (Persons who likes to blast around suburbs racing each other and burning rubber) who wants to put it in their hotted up car. It’s this kind of idiot who nearly killed a bunch of people in that aircraft.

Jim
 
Jimboscr said:
A number of years ago there was an aircraft (can't remember what type) that had fuel stolen, but to hide the theft the mental midget who did the deed refuelled the tanks with water. Fortunately no one was killed, but the aircraft was wrecked.
Click to expand...

Am I the last person who still sumps each fuel tank before every flight? ;)
 
I too smell every sample where I can't determine color. This was taught at flight school. Aircraft parked outside in the rain can accumulate enough water in the tanks to more than fill the sample cup.

Bevan
 
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