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K-1100-08D?

LettersFromFlyoverCountry

LettersFromFlyoverCountry

Well Known Member
I'm getting kind of tired waiting for bag 3124 (i think) to finally be delivered from back order on the RV-12i fuse kit so I think I'm just going to bite the bullet and buy the parts elsewhere so I can plug along. I've already skipped ahead as far as I dare at this point..

I can't find, however, a platenut named K-1100-08D

I'm hoping the "D" stands for dimpled ears, because I've got a ton of K-1100-08s around and I can just squeeze the dimples myself.

Can anyone confirm?
 
LettersFromFlyoverCountry said:
I'm getting kind of tired waiting for bag 3124 (i think) to finally be delivered from back order on the RV-12i fuse kit so I think I'm just going to bite the bullet and buy the parts elsewhere so I can plug along. I've already skipped ahead as far as I dare at this point..

I can't find, however, a platenut named K-1100-08D

I'm hoping the "D" stands for dimpled ears, because I've got a ton of K-1100-08s around and I can just squeeze the dimples myself.

Can anyone confirm?
Click to expand...
Bob, why would one ever dimple a nut plate ear when NAS rivets can be used? You can use a NAS 1097 and with a few turns of a deburring tool have a countersink. even in .020 material. Much quicker, easier, and cheaper. Hard to beat that. I found the NAS1097AD3-3 are used 99% of the time.

Scott says this technique is listed in Section 5 now.
 
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BillL said:
Bob, why would one ever dimple a nut plate ear when NAS rivets can be used? You can use a NAS 1097 and with a few turns of a deburring tool have a countersink. even in .020 material. Much quicker, easier, and cheaper. Hard to beat that. I found the NAS1097AD3-3 are used 99% of the time.

Scott says this technique is listed in Section 5 now.
Click to expand...

Perhaps quicker, perhaps easier, but realistically the same cost, because you can just dimple the nutplate. We have been doing this since the beginning on other kits, and removing material removes strength. I would definitely take a nested dimple over a countersink any day. Granted, the strength mainly comes from the screw or bolt in the nutplate, but still...
 
BillL said:
Bob, why would one ever dimple a nut plate ear when NAS rivets can be used? You can use a NAS 1097 and with a few turns of a deburring tool have a countersink. even in .020 material. Much quicker, easier, and cheaper. Hard to beat that. I found the NAS1097AD3-3 are used 99% of the time.

Scott says this technique is listed in Section 5 now.
Click to expand...

I understand my options. *My* quality control is not to countersink skin this thin and I can dimple a nutplate in a fraction of second.. That's why I'm not asking "is there any other way to attach a nutplate?" :D
 
To Bill,

The reason(s) *I* dimple them are that I don't have to keep up with yet another rivet type, I don't have to c/s a thin skin, and most of all, dimpled pairs self align much better than when using a c/s hole in the skin. Without nested dimples, the nut plate can actually drift off-center enough to cause issues with screw installation.

2 dimples in the nut plate is such an insignificant time consumer that it's barely noticeable. Mis-alignment of a nut plate, on the other hand....
 
Dimple if you like . . . .

Dimple if you like, but the NAS rivets in thin material will carry more than enough torque from that nut plate to shear the fastener. I tested some #6 standard cad screws to 50 in-lb before failure. It's experimental, satisfy yourself, do a test.
 
Was that a response to my post? If so, I don't think I mentioned torque. C/S-ing a thin skin can compound the misalignment issue.
 
rv7charlie said:
Was that a response to my post? If so, I don't think I mentioned torque. C/S-ing a thin skin can compound the misalignment issue.
Click to expand...

Nope, must have been an over post:eek:

I have had no issues (that I can recall) with alignment using the NAS rivets, but I can see your point. I have had the hole off, but not relative to the nut plate.

BTW - The latest Section 5 does have this as an approved option for nut plates.
 
Dimple the things. Depending on your dimple dies you might have to/find it useful to grind down one side of the die so that might otherwise interfere with the nut part of the nutplate when squeezing. The ears will probably bend a little. They bend back.
 
rv7charlie said:
Was that a response to my post? If so, I don't think I mentioned torque. C/S-ing a thin skin can compound the misalignment issue.
Click to expand...

I see more misalignment if you use the Vans method of a screw in a reference nutplate and drill though the ear holes - rather than using a true nutplate jig.

The holes in the K1000 nutplates are spec'd at 0.098 +0.005 -0.000 inches, and most I have used tend to be a the high end of the specification, which is almost a #37 drill size.

Using a #40 drill though the platenut holes will give more misalignment that hand countersinking a hole made with a platenut jig.

The cost and stocking is negligible, you only really need the -3 and -3.5 lengths - anything that needs a longer rivet is thick enough to countersink.

I find them much easier to use, replacing 4 dimpling operations with two countersinking ones and never dimpled a single nutplate in my RV-6A :)

PS I forgot all the holes are now pre-punched, but it's still easier :D
 
Gil,

My comments were specific to prepunched kits (-7, in my case). The slop in the #40 holes in the skin plus the ears of the nutplates can let the nutplate drift out of alignment enough that after riveting, screw insertion becomes...problematic. Dimpling the (pre-punched) skin and the nutplate ears seems to force the nutplate into alignment.

My experience, anyway.
 
az_gila said:
The cost and stocking is negligible, you only really need the -3 and -3.5 lengths - anything that needs a longer rivet is thick enough to countersink.
Click to expand...

Since this location is skin, fitting rib, fitting nutplate, I think if you're going to do it this way, why not just countersink the rib flange to accept the dimple from the baggage floor skin? You'll need a longer rivet than 3.5, of course.
 
greghughespdx said:
Dimple the things. Depending on your dimple dies you might have to/find it useful to grind down one side of the die so that might otherwise interfere with the nut part of the nutplate when squeezing. The ears will probably bend a little. They bend back.
Click to expand...

Right, which an RV-12 builder would have done by this point anyway since instructions on the emp kit required the dimpling of the nutplate ears with this advice.
 
LettersFromFlyoverCountry said:
Since this location is skin, fitting rib, fitting nutplate, I think if you're going to do it this way, why not just countersink the rib flange to accept the dimple from the baggage floor skin? You'll need a longer rivet than 3.5, of course.
Click to expand...

I think I misstated a little....:)

If it's thicker, then no need for the small head rivet, simply use a standard AN426 rivet.
 
rv7charlie said:
Gil,

My comments were specific to prepunched kits (-7, in my case). The slop in the #40 holes in the skin plus the ears of the nutplates can let the nutplate drift out of alignment enough that after riveting, screw insertion becomes...problematic. Dimpling the (pre-punched) skin and the nutplate ears seems to force the nutplate into alignment.

My experience, anyway.
Click to expand...

Yes, but I put most of this down to the larger holes in the ears.

I usually squeeze one rivet a bit, then set the second rivet and go back to the first. This lets the first rivet center itself in the larger ear hole and keep the main hole/nutplate alignment correct.

Since these small rivets don't need a lot of force, I hand squeeze all of them so the above steps don't really take any extra time. Clecoes can also push the nutplate out of alignment so if gravity and space allows I use a piece of stick tape to hold the rivets in place and hold the nutplate with my fingers for the initial small squeeze.

A nice bevel on the main holes helps a bit too with later screw insertion.

Building the -6A and using nutplates to hold down the baggage floor and seat panels instead of pull rivets gave me lots of practice. :)
 
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