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Master List of Easy to Miss Things in Plans

Stockmanreef

Well Known Member
Is anyone putting together a list of things to not miss in the plans? Or I should say easy to miss in the plans. By page. Maybe there is a way to set up a google excel spread sheet that is linked to a thread at the top of the rv-14 page. This way builders can put stuff in. Or have one master keeper who updates. It could also contain tips for hard to do things--like putting in the landing light lens (at least I read it was a bit difficult to do).

I think that this would be great for future and current builders.

For example, don't dimple the top rib flanges because the wing doublers in the inboard ribs 1-4.
 
or the holes on the lower J-channel to not drill before flipping 180 to the top and drilling the rest. Those are easy to miss and accidentally drill then you need to by more J-channel or make doublers.
 
I was thinking along similar lines. As a group here at VAF we could create a set of changes or additions to the standard list of instructions or the plans.

For the instructions we could start with the standard instructions and then add VAF notes where items are missing or incorrect. There are many areas within the instructions where more detail would be helpful. These notes could be inserted inline with the standard instructions, maybe with the user name included so each of us could do our own QA on the comment. Things like Do Not install the fuel tank end ribs before installing the vent. I almost made that mistake. Ok I'll admit that I put one on in the first tank. I have also seen references here to others installing both.

I'm not sure if this could be managed with so many people contributing but over time we could build up the set of notes that other builders could refer to as they move on to those sections.

For the plans we could create a set of notes for every sheet.

This is just an idea since probably Vans doesn't have the resources to go through and update all of these older instructions. At a minimum if they decided the did want to do some updates they would already have a list of items to refer to and use as a starting point.

I hate to see VAF entries to items that I managed to figure out that others are having difficulty with.
 
Doesn't creation of a list like that require that somebody miss them first?

The 14 is an new design with new instructions.
 
Talk about a great resource!

When a new model of anything comes out, there is always a boatload of tweaking or fixing of the instructions.

Why would Vans not want to share these notes or corrections?

Steve
 
Bill--The answer to your question is yes you have to find them first. I already missed the ones I mentioned as did a bunch of other people. But as the number of threads on the rv-14 form increases, it will be difficult to find these things.

Again, these are things in the plans that are over looked or hard to determine.

1. Do the plans say to dimple the top flanges of the ribs? Answer NO. Do people dimple anyway. YEP. And I am one of them. So I will be dimpling the area where Vans says to counter sink. I know that other people are un-dimpling, but the guy who I took the building class with told me to NOT un-dimple. Leave as is and dimple the other parts. He actually said never un-dimple. If you have to, then buy new parts.

2. Another one that someone might do is rivet the out board most rib
(#14), but that one is riveted together with the nose rib. I did not do it, but I can see someone doing it. I clecoed it in place (every other hole) then put painters tape over the un-clecoed hole, just so I was not stupid and rivet them anyway.

Maybe we should just photo the pages where the issues are and have that thread locked to the top of the form.
 
Alright, on rereading your post, I see that you are proposing the creation of a list, not asking if one already exist which is the way I took it.

It is logically obvious that the list cannot exist today and must be created as multiple builders work through building 14s all the way to completion.

It would certainly be handy for a newbie to be able to read an authoritative commentary on the fabrication instructions for any craft.

However, you might ponder why there are no centralized lists for the 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 or 12.

I remember the thread on dimpling/c'sinking under the wing walk skin and truthfully thought it was a bunch of piffle because you can do either and make a fine plane. So.. does it belong on a list or not?? That is certainly a different question than existance of a list. Who will edit? VAF has the same problem that is basic to the internet. A person can find the answer they desire, whether correct or not.
 
It would be great of DR would add a "wiki" to the VAF site for things like this. It would be worth the price to have real, supported by Van's, updated content on the plans without having to deal with any paper.
 
Well, that list could then become an addendum to the "27 years of RVators"??

I've bought the book a couple of years ago and this is exactly what it is; a collection of tricks and tips to future builders. About the particular needs for the -14, is there a way here on the VAF site where we can "upload" a file (WORD, ADOBE, AutoCAD) into which we would describe a procedure or a trick or a simple "DON'T".

I would put up few of my own.
 
It would be great of DR would add a "wiki" to the VAF site for things like this. It would be worth the price to have real, supported by Van's, updated content on the plans without having to deal with any paper.

I think a wiki page is a great idea
 
What a great idea!

wish it was available when I started. Anybody need a slightly used J-channel?
 
Highlight Notes

When building my 9A, I would sit down with each and every blue print page and highlight any of the Notes, or special things needed on that blue print. I would also draw a small square box next to each note. When completed, I would check the box to show it was done.

Simple solution that kept ME organized.
 
Done and done.

If everyone wants to move forward with this then I created a document. Anyone that clicks on the below link can view and edit the document. If we can get a moderator to sticky the link at the top of the RV14 forum it should be an easy find for everyone.

As for formatting I will look to you building for what you think is the most logical solution. I was thinking the first column can be the section number/step number and then next column could be the description of what to watch out for. This way I can periodically, once a week or so, go into the document and reorder the steps so that it will be easy to find. This way when you are on your way out to work on a certain step you can you scroll to the area and see if there are any common problems. If we can all decide on a format here I will insert at the top the column headings and instructions for adding to the list.

Let me know if there is anything else I can do.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ahl5Xwgv8uaRdGR3VDR2MkNBQTA5WXQ0dkxaZGg3RFE&usp=sharing
 
Hey All

I got permission from VANS AIRCRAFT to share a linked construction drawing file with Y'all. These have ALL the threads from the RV 14 discussion threads embedded in the individual construction drawing page where it matches the issue.

PAGE 06-01 has mostly generic issues that could be anywhere during construction for ex. using 3M tape, builder websites, tool question, drilling technique. Etc. I'm in the process of trying to organize that page a bit.

PAGE 05-34 has color codes and instructions

Not sure how to do it without having to give direct access to every one individually but for now if you would like to look send me your email address on a PM and I will give you an invite to my drop box. (I WILL NOT SHARE YOUR EMAIL W ANYONE!)

Don't know if this would work better residing on Doug Reeves' (these) servers or not.
I sent him an Email but no decisions yet

As a suggestion if you don't feel comfortable giving out your email. Make a new account on Gmail or any other free email site that you can delete if need be.

Pete
 
Many thanks, Pete!

Pete, thanks for compiling the useful posts here into a very useful format on the plans. And maintaining it! It has been a huge help to me in my build.
 
Look, I'm not building a -14 so feel free to ignore me if you want to.

I've noticed that Van's frequently updates the plans. While the newly updated plans don't generally apply to airplanes delivered after they are issued, they do include a number of small as well as large changes. So if you're keeping a list of things easy to miss, please be sure that this can be annotated to reflect which revision level that section of the plans is, because it might not be applicable to newer editions.

Also, rzbil, the RV-3 section here on VAF has a "plans clarifications" sticky thread. Don't know about the other planes, but the oldest and least-supported one does have that. Plus my RV-3B plans, that came with my kit, have had numerous revisions since the preview plans were published. So even that lowly kit gets periodic attention by the factory.

Dave
RV-3B, now on the fuselage
 
Look, I'm not building a -14 so feel free to ignore me if you want to.

I've noticed that Van's frequently updates the plans. While the newly updated plans don't generally apply to airplanes delivered after they are issued, they do include a number of small as well as large changes. So if you're keeping a list of things easy to miss, please be sure that this can be annotated to reflect which revision level that section of the plans is, because it might not be applicable to newer editions.

Also, rzbil, the RV-3 section here on VAF has a "plans clarifications" sticky thread. Don't know about the other planes, but the oldest and least-supported one does have that. Plus my RV-3B plans, that came with my kit, have had numerous revisions since the preview plans were published. So even that lowly kit gets periodic attention by the factory.

Dave
RV-3B, now on the fuselage


My Plan is to update the plans drawings as they change. I also want to start deleting discussion's that no longer are material because the plans have been updated.

for example this thread is no longer relevant.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=106077

Any moderators want to pull it.

( step 6 on 06-02 has ben updated with the appropriate "and"

Also

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=106159

has ben updated from Rev 0 to dimple both parts

Pete
 
I saw that HeliCooper weighed in. While I was working my through the empennage I made several notes in his sticky "Gotcha" list. Isn't that what we're taking about?
 
Bob

Just saw your post. It might be confusing here.

There is a master gotchas list in a sticky.

There also is a dropbox account that I opened up that has the RV 14 plans in it and on each page I have posted all of the relevant threads from this website. The idea being as you work or read ahead on the plans you can see where people have made mistakes and how they have been fixed or recommended changes. Originally I was using the NOTE function of Adobe to add these links and comments but folks with Macs are unable to see the notes. So I am creating Hyperlinks that take you directly to the VAF page. I don't know how to open the dropbox up to "guest users" so I need an email address that I can put into the account to send an invite. Any one that would like an invite please send me a PM.

BTW I have permission from Vans Aircraft to do this and DR knows about this. I offered to let him host the folder and he is researching the idea.

Also the PC vs MAC issue I believe is causing the pages to change between saves. For instance I created a page in front of 06-01 that has general construction links that don't fit anywhere specific, and 1/3 of the text boxes have gone blank on me although the hyperlinks overlaid still work.

SO.... any software experts out there if you have any suggestions I would love some help. I am using Adobe 9 pro and maybe that's just too old. I don't want to upgrade because they have gone to a subscription model and I cant afford their cost structure.


HALPILOT
(Pete)
 
On further examination apparently what is happening is that different users end up saving the file with a different font. (again maybe because of different versions?) and that changes the text boxes. Attempting to re arrange to give more room.


Pete
 
Control

I can move to google drive but not sure if adobe keeps its formatting or it turns into a Google drive PDF? I will do a little research.

Pete
 
My Plan is to update the plans drawings as they change. I also want to start deleting discussion's that no longer are material because the plans have been updated.

for example this thread is no longer relevant.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=106077

Any moderators want to pull it.

( step 6 on 06-02 has ben updated with the appropriate "and"

Also

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=106159

has ben updated from Rev 0 to dimple both parts

Pete

Unless Vans is sending out updates for the -14 plans to all builders, don't forget that al lot of builders will be still using old revisions of the plans.

Are the revisions you mention 100% distributed to all builders?

If not, old threads probably should stay.
 
If the folks reference the online plans then it would be up to date. But since that cant be controlled then your right it should probably stay.


-----


for the previous idea of using google docs the MAC folks don't have a problem opening the PDF file in dropbox, they just cant activate the pop up feature on the notes function inside the PDF. That's where maybe its the version I am using might be too old.

Pete
 
Unless Vans is sending out updates for the -14 plans to all builders, don't forget that al lot of builders will be still using old revisions of the plans.

Are the revisions you mention 100% distributed to all builders?

If not, old threads probably should stay.

When plans updates are released to the public (begin shipping in kits), they also get posted to the Service Information and Revisions section of Van's web site. https://www.vansaircraft.com/public/service.htm

It is recommended that before beginning construction in any section, that you check the web site for any updates that might have been made.
 
When plans updates are released to the public (begin shipping in kits), they also get posted to the Service Information and Revisions section of Van's web site. https://www.vansaircraft.com/public/service.htm

It is recommended that before beginning construction in any section, that you check the web site for any updates that might have been made.

Thanks... that's a great improvement over the earlier plans revision histories...
 
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