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New Garmin Panel Mounts: GTN 650 / 750

Auburntsts

Well Known Member
OK Matt B and Garmin Tim, I'm sure you can't spill the beans now, but as soon as you can you need to let the faithful in on the news....:D

From the Garmin Website: [URL]http://sites.garmin.com/magic/[/URL]

Some great new panel-mount magic is coming soon from Garmin. So, you?ll want to be watching closely for the official announcement on Wednesday evening, March 23, 2011. If you want to be among the first to find out what all the excitement?s about, you?re invited to sign up for a special ?early notice? e-alert by simply entering your e-mail address in the window above.
 
Please let it be an approach certified gps in the G3X.

I don't think there is any chance of that....the G3X is Experimental so cannot have an integrated IFR GPS that would be legal.

The Garmin 430 has been around for over a decade with very little change and is now quite dated technology. Perhaps we are about to see the long overdue 440.

Any other guesses?
 
I don't think there is any chance of that....the G3X is Experimental so cannot have an integrated IFR GPS that would be legal.

The Garmin 430 has been around for over a decade with very little change and is now quite dated technology. Perhaps we are about to see the long overdue 440.

Any other guesses?

That would be awesome. The 430 is a great unit, and more than enough for me so anything that would bring the price down is fine by me!!!!!
 
But an approach-certified GPS can be connected to the G3X. I don't think it's strictly a question of legality but of practicality. I'm second-guessing Garmin here, but I don't expect them to add this capability to the G3X because it doesn't fit the target market for the unit and the capability can be added by those who want to go to the extra trouble and expense.
 
Are we betting on this?

If we guess right, do we get a free one? :D

The SL-30 and SL-40 are very long in tooth, but have no equals that I know of. The SL-30's ability to monitor the frequency in the flip-flop is a feature I have not seen on any other radio. Same for the nav-head side to be able to read a cross-radial without a separate CDI. But they are both legacy Apollo units.

I think the guess of the 430W and 530W getting an update might be right-on as well. I could see those becoming touchscreen units, using the better screen resolutions of the aera series.

Being that ADS-B and transponders still haven't really been sorted out, I'm guessing against anything in that area.

And speaking out the other side of my mouth, having just purchased a whole pile of Garmin products (G3X, 430W, SL30, GTX330) please don't update any of them! My bank account can't keep up!
 
If we guess right, do we get a free one? :D

The SL-30 and SL-40 are very long in tooth, but have no equals that I know of. The SL-30's ability to monitor the frequency in the flip-flop is a feature I have not seen on any other radio.

The ICOM A210 does this.
 
Any other guesses?

I'm hoping they'll consider all of us GX-60 owners out there...like maybe a certified unit using the same GX-60 tray, maybe even the same connectors? Is that asking too much? Well, they're not supporting the displays anymore, so that's pretty much going to put a GX-60 out of service at the next display failure. Bummer. How about a GX-60 trade-in plan?

This would apply to the GX-50, 55, and 65 as well. I wonder how many units are out there?
 
What would be really cool, is a unit comparable to the 430W, but the size of an SL30/40, or smaller. Controlled completely through an EFIS unit like AFS, Dynon, GRT or G3X. Imagine all that capability, and zero panel real estate used.
 
What would be really cool, is a unit comparable to the 430W, but the size of an SL30/40, or smaller. Controlled completely through an EFIS unit like AFS, Dynon, GRT or G3X. Imagine all that capability, and zero panel real estate used.

Seems a bit like too much of a single failure point to me. Talking to the EFIS is one thing (and letting it control the device), but relying on the EFIS for the operation of the WASS GPS/nav radio sounds like it'll leave you in an awful situation of it fails in IFR.
 
Seems a bit like too much of a single failure point to me. Talking to the EFIS is one thing (and letting it control the device), but relying on the EFIS for the operation of the WASS GPS/nav radio sounds like it'll leave you in an awful situation of it fails in IFR.

No different than running around with one EFIS regardless of the NAV source. Either way you need to have 2 screens, battery back up, or a stand alone attitude source.
 
No different than running around with one EFIS regardless of the NAV source. Either way you need to have 2 screens, battery back up, or a stand alone attitude source.

If your EFIS goes down you can still use the 430/530 to do a VOR approach at the very least.
 
If your EFIS goes down you can still use the 430/530 to do a VOR approach at the very least.


You still need to have an attitude back up.... And in an emergnecy like that you can ad hoc an approach from several different sources. Personally, I'll take a PAR or ASR.

We can go round and round talking about which component is the Jesus bolt, there is an insurmountable situation regardless of who much money you throw in your panel. I'll still take the panel space, from a smaller remote mounted GPS unit, and even with a 430 and the ability to shoot a VOR approach, the back up attitude remains the issue. (As does back up anything)
 
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Status

I thought Garmin was scheduled to release the news this week.

Never mind, I just saw that its March 23rd.
 
Any Insight to Garmin's 3/23/11 Panel GPS Release

Talked with Garmin & they were very secretive. Asked if I should by a 430w now or wait a couple of weeks......."Wait" was the answer.
 
Rumor Only

Heard a rumor that they were going to be making upgrades to the 430 to make it more user friendly. It sure could use some of that.........
 
I have to wonder if this is driving some of the delay in Van's announcing the new configuration for the RV-12
 
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Hopeful but not betting.

I hope they have a whole new unit that comes out with all the capabilities of the 530w plus touch screen, Very user friendly, victor airways in the flight plan function, integrated ads-b weather, Integrated Transponder with traffic, Standby monitoring on the Com and Nav Frequency, Ect!!!

While im wishing here this package needs to be available for $5000.00

I would buy one....done deal!
 
I would argue that a touch screen, while useful and highly usable outside of the cockpit, would be nothing short of a disaster in the cockpit in hard IMC or moderate turbulence. I can't imagine being able to hit the right spot on the screen while being bounced around. It take far more concentration to use a touch screen than it does with a tactile input device such as a keyboard, button, or knob. IMHO, distractions of this nature are far more likely to cause accidents.
 
This speculation came from another news group...

My local dealer pressed his Garmin rep and got some insight into what they
are launching in a few weeks.

A "next generation 430 and 530". The Garmin rep was clearly not supposed
to say much, my buddy said, as he was as allusive as could be. He would
not go into features of the panel mounts except to say they would be 20%+
more expensive than the current 430 & 530s. My friend asked, for
clarification, "20% more than the 430 or the 530?". The rep said,
"both"... showing his hand there would be at least 2 new models. The rep
would say no more -- like if the new units would be the "440" and "540", an
update to the 430/530 (like they did with WAAS a few years back, etc.), if
they would keep selling the existing 430/530 (my rep hoped so -- saying the
price-points were already at the upper end of what he thought the market
would bare). The Garmin rep would also not elaborate on the new features
of the panel mounts except to say the new features were "extensive". (I'm
guessing victor airways and arbitrary holds -- ala what they had in the 480
and did away with.... as a minimum... Surely a higher res screen.)

We'll all know the details in a few weeks... I believe March 23rd is the
big "magic" release date.
 
Well, maybe it will at least soften the used prices of the 430/530s a little. I've been looking for a while and I'd be happy to just pick up a 430W for $5000.
 
How long has it been?

I guess we poor old VFR guys are to be left out in the cold. I would like to see an upgrade for the GNC 250XL.

Some of us can't afford radios that cost almost as much as our airplanes.
 
I guess we poor old VFR guys are to be left out in the cold. I would like to see an upgrade for the GNC 250XL.

Some of us can't afford radios that cost almost as much as our airplanes.

Mel, I think I missed something. There's a whole spread of terrific VFR GPS products out there, from many different companies, and getting better and cheaper all the time. If you are VFR-only, then why would like to see an upgrade to a long-obsolete and still very expensive certified unit, when you could get a modern non-certified VFR-only unit with 10 times the functionality at 1/10 the cost?

It is us IFR guys, limited to IFR-certified GPS units, who should be crying. With all the regulatory obstacles to getting an IFR unit to market, and with Garmin currently holding a monopoly in that market space after having bought out all their competitors, we are practically guaranteed to pay an arm and a leg for IFR-certified units for the foreseeable future. That's a real bummer.
 
How about a GX-60 replacement with WAAS (panel mount, GPS only, certified IFR) for under $5K? Is that asking too much? :confused: If Garmin doesn't do it, somebody else will, won't they? Maybe? There are an awful lot of people out there with a GX-60 or equivalent in their panels that are becoming obsolete. Surely this is a market point for someone.

This group consists of folks who usually also have an SL30 and/or an MX-20 so NAV and a big display are not really necessary or desired, just the ability for the GPS to talk to things like the autopilot, moving map display, etc. Anyway, this is my little fantasy! :)
 
Mel, I think I missed something. There's a whole spread of terrific VFR GPS products out there, from many different companies, and getting better and cheaper all the time. If you are VFR-only, then why would like to see an upgrade to a long-obsolete and still very expensive certified unit, when you could get a modern non-certified VFR-only unit with 10 times the functionality at 1/10 the cost?

Well I guess I missed something. I paid $2000 for my GNC 250XL. Can you tell me where to find this modern terrific GPS/com for $200?

But let's be fare. The price for a "new" GNC 250 is $3500, so that modern unit with "10 times the functionality" is $350. Right?
 
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Well I guess I missed something. I paid $2000 for my GNC 250XL. Can you tell me where to find this modern terrific GPS/com for $200?

But let's be fare. The price for a "new" GNC 250 is $3500, so that modern unit with "10 times the functionality" is $350. Right?

Ok, looking more closely at the numbers it's not quite a factor of 10, so forgive me for overstating the argument. But the point stands. You can get any of a number of feature-rich full color moving map VFR GPS receivers in the $600-$700 range (several examples here: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/av/gps_0handheld.html). So call that a factor of 5 on the price point.

Anyway, not trying to be argumentative. Just making the point that today there are in the VFR arena alternatives that are more capable and less expensive than something like the GNC 250. And so it doesn't seem to make much sense, practically or economically, for a manufacturer (Garmin) nor for an aircraft owner (like you or I) to keep investing in upgrades to a product that old, that is built on technology that's now very obsolete.
 
Apples to oranges. Your comparing a handheld GPS to a panel mount GPS/com.

First of all, I HAVE a great GPS. And I was not looking for an upDATED 250. I was looking for an upGRADE; i.e. a newer model of GPS/com. Garmin is concentrating. on all the many thousand $$$$ units with no consideration for us lowly VFR guys.

While I agree that the 250 is somewhat obsolete; that just makes my point. Garmin has done nothing to "replace" it with newer technology without spending many thousands $$$$.
We can agree to disagree.
 
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I am with Mel on this.

Apples to oranges. Your comparing a handheld GPS to a panel mount GPS/com.

First of all, I HAVE a great GPS. And I was not looking for an upDATED 250. I was looking for an upGRADE; i.e. a newer model of GPS/com. Garmin is concentrating. on all the many thousand $$$$ units with no consideration for us lowly VFR guys.

While I agree that the 250 is somewhat obsolete; that just makes my point. Garmin has done nothing to "replace" it with newer technology without spending many thousands $$$$.
We can agree to disagree.
 
Hopeful but not betting.

I'll add one thing to the wish list- slide in replacement for the 430/530. No panel mods. I would think that would be a brilliant marketing strategy.
 
Just so long as all this wonderfulness is not followed by>>>>>>>>>>>>"we are no longer supporting the 430/530 series"
 
I'm hoping for free data updates for life on all existing products. But its still 6:40 in the morning so I must still be dreaming...
 
Apples to oranges. Your comparing a handheld GPS to a panel mount GPS/com.

First of all, I HAVE a great GPS. And I was not looking for an upDATED 250. I was looking for an upGRADE; i.e. a newer model of GPS/com. Garmin is concentrating. on all the many thousand $$$$ units with no consideration for us lowly VFR guys.

While I agree that the 250 is somewhat obsolete; that just makes my point. Garmin has done nothing to "replace" it with newer technology without spending many thousands $$$$.
We can agree to disagree.

Mel, I do see your point. What you would like to see is a modern, low cost, stack-mounted GPS/comm. Fair enough.

That would make sense as an easy upgrade for you given that that's the configuration you have currently in your airplane. But I'm guessing that may be a very limited market today (partly, as evidenced by Garmin not showing much interest in it). The trend today for VFR aircraft seems to be more toward either GPS-integrated EFIS, or semi-permanently-mounted "handheld" GPS (both of which Garmin and others are vigorously pursuing). In both cases, you generally get larger screens which make possible richer user interfaces and feature sets than can't be done very practically in a small screen radio-stack-style unit. And the EFIS type products offer a much greater level of integration even beyond just the GPS (although granted, most of them don't include comm yet... but give them a year or two.) So yes, apples and oranges to a degree. But seems like the apples are largely getting phased out by the oranges. I wonder how much market demand there really is for another traditional GPS/comm for VFR. How many other folks there are in your situation that would like to replace an older stack-mounted VFR GPS/comm with a newer stack-mounted VFR GPS/comm, and not do a more extensive (but still not necessarily far more expensive) panel upgrade to, say, a VFR GPS-integrated EFIS.

As far as a "newer" stack-mounted GPS/comm that you would like to see, what new features would it need to have for you to buy one as a replacement for your existing 250? And at what price point? Just curious.
 
MGL

Mel, this would seem to me to be a perfect opportunity for MGL to integrate its radio with a simple GPS moving map. Maybe Rainier could address this.
 
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GPS/Comm

I will buy 2 today if they had a color screen and flip flop. Don't need all the bells and whistles of a 430 or the price. Already have 2 hand held's
 
Just throwin' it out there

I'm guessing touch screens make the scene. Integrated avionics, like an MFD with coms and transponder, all in one. Kind of like what a half a g1000 would be, and perhaps vertical like a 696. That old 480 was a nice box, but very different in button pushes and knob turns when compared to the 430 and 530. The 480 also accepted Victor airways. I'm guessing what's next is something that'll allow those Victor airways in the flight plan, some touch screen capabilities, maybe a whole lot more screen and a whole lot less bezel, especially if they combine unit capabilities... A stack sized all-in-one-der MFD with 480 like capabilities in the new garmin sort of keystrokes. Heck, throw in a portable keypad to make it FMS-like for entering flight plans and ADS-B and you got yourself a full fledged 430/530/gtx330 eraser. Gives them the flexibility to add nextgen capabilities to new architecture, instead of trying to overhaul the 430/530/gtx330 line for a 2020 ads-b start date. Heck, who knows, could even be the size of a full size approach plate to allow a g600 pfd/mfd with a chart view sitting right next to it. Really,all just a guess here...an LPV approach to a cornfield...a shot in the dark.
 
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