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Steps - Shorten for Taildragger?

mfleming

Well Known Member
Patron
Today I ordered a set of steps for my -7. In the end steps sound like a good idea.

Gus at Vans said that the steps, as received from the factory, are designed to be halfway to the ground on a -7A. Gus said shortening the steps so they will still be halfway to the ground on a -7 might be desirable.

I'm sure that once my -7 in on the gear I can take this measurement and have them shortened. But, I would like to proceed before then.

The question is, has anyone shortened their steps for a -6/-7/-9 and how much did you shorten them by?

Also, did you just cut a section out of the streamlined tubing and re-weld it....or what?
 
Shorten steps for taildragger

I shortened mine by 2.5" on my -7, and that seems fine.

Warren
N671CW
Minneapolis
 
Shortened the step on my RV-6 by 4", but the -7 probably sits higher and won't need to have as much taken out. I sectioned the downtube, put a piece of 4130 round tube inside the airfoil tube to stiffen it and welded it back together. I've also seen a step shortened at the downtube/step junction. Either way works, depends on what the person doing the modification is most comfortable with. It really would be best to wait until your plane is on the gear so you can place the step where you want it.
 
Well, I haven't shorten'ed the steps yet but I have the initial fitting of the right step completed.

I think I will shorten the steps after I fit the left step. I just don't want to wait until the wings and gear are on before I shorten and install these...

Some pictures of the right step.

step1.jpg


step2.jpg
 
How much would I shorten the steps on a taildragger RV if I was a-buildin'? I'd probably shorten 'em by about 17, 18 inches or so, maybe more.

My RV-9A (yeah, I know, tailwheel at the wrong end) was discovered to have cracks in the steps on both sides. Jesse's posse's thought was they could fix the welds in place but then decided against it, pulled 'em, welded 'em, reinstalled 'em. Cost me a half dozen aeronautical grade hamburgers and eight or so years worth of VAF dues. Them steps came back powder coated white which meant they stood out from the paint scheme, but that turned out to be a why-didn't-I-think-of-that really great idea. Makes the steps real visible.

When I got my RV-8A (yeah, heard ya the first time) in a trade, one step was broken off at the fuselage and the rest of the step was in California, somewhere, probably within 300 nautical of the Golden Gate. Go find 'er. Naw, that one's not it, see here, the cracks don't match up to what's still in the fuselage. So I ordered a new step and proved my sheet metal machismo and patience by installing the new step and fabricating a new fairing from scratch. Whoopee.

Would I put steps on a taildragger RV? Would I log on to the web using Morse code? Would I swan dive into an empty swimming pool off the high board again? Would I put an R-985 on an RV-3? (Hmm, now there's an idea. If you three-point every takeoff and landing....)

On my RV-8 (always parked with flaps full down so they don't get stepped on), the easy way to get on board is to walk up to the trailing edge deliberately and WITHOUT STOPPING let your momentum carry you atop the wing. If I act like the stiff, paunchy old man that I am and stop at the flap, then I get to go through the clumsy and America's funniest home video-inspiring exercise of putting one hand on the canopy railing and with great exclamation and exasperation hoisting myself onto the wing with one hand.

And on the RV-9A, with steps on each side, almost the same rules apply: momentum or video, except that unschooled folks'll (not the nautical term) try to pull the canopy off its tracks if you let yer guard down. Biggest difference on the -9A is to park the plane with half flaps -- full flap deflection makes the trailing edge likely to getting kicked.

Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to put steps on taildragger RVs. Teach 'em manners and grace and vegan eatin' (goes right well with brisket and a little sausage) and physical therapy and ballet and reducing drag count and gettin' that cruise speed up by 0.00828 Mach. Maybe only 0.00827 if you drill the holes and then have to fill 'em. And it keeps the rattlesnakes outside of the inside when you're overnightin' out in the desert playin' "wish I was an RV super cub." No help keepin' out the ringtails, though... even the stiff, paunchy old ones.
 
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I've never seen step/s on a conventional u/c Vans? I find it easy to get in and out of mine wth flaps up although I am 6ft tall. One less thing to slow down my beast, slip off or break off👍
Must go and see if I can find pix of same🙂
 
Well, I haven't shorten'ed the steps yet but I have the initial fitting of the right step completed.

I think I will shorten the steps after I fit the left step. I just don't want to wait until the wings and gear are on before I shorten and install these...

Hmm. Looks like those steps won't be level when the tailwheel is on the ground. But if you're getting them re-welded anyway, you can fix that. And then that will mean they'll not be streamlined in flight, but that's probably a so-what in the real world.
 
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Michael,
Is there a plate that?ll go on the inside for the through-bolts pass through which then sandwiches the fuselage skin between the outer and inner step plates?

I?m also trying to think of a way to modify the floor-pans so that the step attachment bolts could be easily accessed so that the steps could easily be removed. If the attach bolts were accessible It would be nice to have that option to be able to remove the steps and then just put a little cover plate on the outside.

Mark
 
A significant reason for having steps on a taildragger is to assist with coming down off the wing. I saw all the comments about being fit and slim and light and young so steps won't be needed, and I don't use a step on the RV-6....but as the copilot is height-challenged and afflicted with a bad back the step on the passenger side was a no-brainer. The step not being "level" is a non-issue.
 
Step

A significant reason for having steps on a taildragger is to assist with coming down off the wing. I saw all the comments about being fit and slim and light and young so steps won't be needed, and I don't use a step on the RV-6....but as the copilot is height-challenged and afflicted with a bad back the step on the passenger side was a no-brainer. The step not being "level" is a non-issue.

+1

The 7 with the electric flaps, and my not liking to leave the flaps in the down position on the ground, makes for getting in and particularly out a big step. Getting my 90 yr young father in and out requires flaps down and a stool, which must also be carried to the destination. I debated putting the steps on during my build but decided not to. I regret that decision now and am considering biting the bullet and doing it now.

I will measure my flap up to ground height next time I am at the hangar and post, unless someone does it sooner.

Al
 
Steps

I converted my 9a to a 9. Never changed the step heights and they are great the way they are and happy to have them.
 
A significant reason for having steps on a taildragger is to assist with coming down off the wing. I saw all the comments about being fit and slim and light and young so steps won't be needed, and I don't use a step on the RV-6....but as the copilot is height-challenged and afflicted with a bad back the step on the passenger side was a no-brainer. The step not being "level" is a non-issue.

Thanks Sam!

Do you remember how much you shortened the step? I would like to get the welding job completed before I'm on the gear.
 
+1

I debated putting the steps on during my build but decided not to. I regret that decision now and am considering biting the bullet and doing it now.
Al

The passenger step on my RV-6 was a retrofit and it isn't difficult for someone who built the plane. Once the passenger-side baggage floor rivets are drilled out the retro-fit is straight forward.
 
Steps

I?m 5? 9? and don?t have long legs. After flying several RV taildraggers (some with steps & some without) including the 9 decided I wanted steps for my 9A to 9 conversion. I thought the stock length looked long so modified the stock steps by shortening the tube 4.5?. In the process I made them removable and added 2oz of lead shot to each. Not flying yet.

Don Broussard
RV9 Rebuild in Progress (no time)
57 Pacer
 
I?m 5? 9? and don?t have long legs. After flying several RV taildraggers (some with steps & some without) including the 9 decided I wanted steps for my 9A to 9 conversion. I thought the stock length looked long so modified the stock steps by shortening the tube 4.5?. In the process I made them removable and added 2oz of lead shot to each. Not flying yet.

Don Broussard
RV9 Rebuild in Progress (no time)
57 Pacer

Have you determined that 4.5"s doesn't interfere with the flaps?
 
Check out folding plastic step stool on Amazon. They don't weigh much, cost $10-$15 and will not cause any extra drag. Why build a speedy airplane and then rivet extra drag to the outside? Mooney went to all the effort to build a retracting step on earlier M20's.
 
I'm getting quite a bit of response about having the baggage floor riveted in.
Drilling out the baggage floor rivets is a very simple operation.
If you're not up to that, you may not be up to installing steps either.
 
Mel gave me permission to post his photos.


mel4.JPG

A creative solution, but I would discourage cutting away the entire web of the baggage rib when when a small opening would have been sufficient. Structurally, that baggage rib has lost a major percentage of it's ability to carry any load.
 
A creative solution, but I would discourage cutting away the entire web of the baggage rib when when a small opening would have been sufficient. Structurally, that baggage rib has lost a major percentage of it's ability to carry any load.

I did replace the cutaway portion of the rib with a doubler. You cannot install my step without doing that because the support plate is on the inside. Look carefully at all photos.
 
"Mel's step" wouldn't address the reason why I installed a passenger step on the RV-6. My rational was to cut in half the distance the passenger needed to step up in order to reach the wingwalk (or down when deplaning).

I agree drilling out baggage floor rivets should not deter anyone from installing a step.
 
I did replace the cutaway portion of the rib with a doubler. You cannot install my step without doing that because the support plate is on the inside. Look carefully at all photos.

If you mean the piece of angle visible in the 5th photo?
In my opinion that does not return the rib strength anywhere close back to what it originally was.
 
"Mel's step" wouldn't address the reason why I installed a passenger step on the RV-6. My rational was to cut in half the distance the passenger needed to step up in order to reach the wingwalk (or down when deplaning).
I agree drilling out baggage floor rivets should not deter anyone from installing a step.

I think you will be surprised at how much the "reach" is shortened from having to step all the way to the wingwalk. My Wife is approaching 80 and is 5'2" and has no problem with these steps. She could not step up to the wingwalk.
 
Mel?s design

Hey Mel,

With the steps coming straight out like that, were they actually very much help getting in and out of the airplane?....or were they more to keep anyone from stepping on the flaps? Also, it looks like they were made out of the same material that the factory steps are made out of...the shape is the same. Did you modify the factory steps or did you start from scratch with your own design?

Thanks,
Mark
 
Hey Mel,
With the steps coming straight out like that, were they actually very much help getting in and out of the airplane?....or were they more to keep anyone from stepping on the flaps? Also, it looks like they were made out of the same material that the factory steps are made out of...the shape is the same. Did you modify the factory steps or did you start from scratch with your own design?
Thanks,
Mark

These steps are my own original design and built from scratch. The material came from left over material from a Super Cub replica kit and was supplied by Jay Pratt.
I didn't want to modify original steps because I didn't want any weld joints.
These steps made a huge difference on being able to step up. It had nothing to do with stepping on the flaps. I always park with flaps down and never had that problem.
 
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These steps are my own original design and built from scratch. The material came from left over material from a Super Cub replica kit and was supplied by Jay Pratt.
I didn't want to modify original steps because I didn't want any weld joints.
These steps made a huge difference on being able to step up. It had nothing to do with stepping on the flaps. I always park with flaps down and never had that problem.

Roger that! One more question; how far was it from the step to the ground? Also, I know yours was installed on your -6....but would there be any difference in height (step to ground distance) with this installation on a -7?

Thanks again,
Mark
 
Roger that! One more question; how far was it from the step to the ground? Also, I know yours was installed on your -6....but would there be any difference in height (step to ground distance) with this installation on a -7?
Thanks again,
Mark

I can no longer measure the step height as my -6 now lives in Louisiana. Don't know if the -7 sits taller or not.
 
Have you determined that 4.5"s doesn't interfere with the flaps?

That?s a great question. When the flaps are full down the ?foot peg? part of the step should be 3-4? behind and at the same height as the flap trailing edge. The wings haven?t been on yet to prove this.


Don Broussard
RV9 Rebuild in Progress
57 Pacer
 
Step

Finally a flying day!! Not many this fall in the great white north (not much white either).

My 7 measures 17 3/4" from the floor to the top of the flap trailing edge. (Flaps up).

My neighbours 7A measures 28" ground to flap when up and about 9" down from the top of the flap to the top of the step leaving a 19" step to the ground.

Another 7A with the flaps full down was 17 1/2" bottom of the flap to the floor and 16 1/2" from the top of the step to the floor.

Not sure what tire pressures were on the 2 A's but my 7 is 45 psig.

Based on these rough measurements the stock step would be close to the middle on a 7 as is since it measures about 9" down from the top of the flap to top of the step with flaps up.

A couple of the A's on our field have had to reweld the steps as they have developed cracks on the passenger side, even though that side has been used the least. FWIW.

Al
 
I have less than zero experience or opinion to add to the discussion, however I'd just like to make a shout out to acknowledge Ed's post #6 above.
You made my lunchtime!
Possibly the best post I've seen all year. :)
 
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