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How much flight time is required for RV solo?

tkatc

Well Known Member
i think my question is 2 parts....I am a low time pilot and want to own an RV one day. What is a good rule of thumb, (hours as PIC) before moving into a "High Performance" RV?

How many hours of transition training is typically required?
 
My experience

I only had 300 and some hours, almost all of that was more than 10 years old on 172s and 150s when I bought my RV-4. I took a dozen hours of RV training in a -7 with Mike Seagar and went flying in my -4. This has worked reasonably well, I have certainly had a few landings I don't care to repeat and a few go-arounds but overall I have felt safe.
 
call Jan Bussel or Pierre and pick their brains.

i think my question is 2 parts....I am a low time pilot and want to own an RV one day. What is a good rule of thumb, (hours as PIC) before moving into a "High Performance" RV?

How many hours of transition training is typically required?

I suggest you call one of the well known RV transition pilots and pick their brains. Jan Bussel who was my RV transition instructor for example could give you his opinion and I think you should just go and try and get checked out and ask for his feedback and honest opinion on your 'RV readiness' prior toy buying and solo flying a plane. Probably all those guys would be happy to evaluate you before you buy an RV. You just need to ask them to be brutally honest :) You may be ready in a few days of concentrated flying.

http://www.rv6flyjan.com/html/bio.asp
 
Well, I just bought an RV-4 and am low time...

Time prior was ~85 in 172 and 182's, then about 11 hours of RV-7 transition training and about 8 hours with CFI in my RV-4 (it has rear pedals and throttle). There was a sharp learning curve, but I felt pretty good with just the RV-7 time (and was given the "your ready"), and in retrospect, the RV-4 was easier to land solo than with the instructor, with my first solo landing my best RV landing to date!... I just needed the confidence building. I also (personally) feel the 4 was easier than the 7. I would not try and minimize it though... I was still pretty nervous the first time on my own.

Hope that helps.
 
What is a good rule of thumb, (hours as PIC) before moving into a "High Performance" RV?

One way to answer that is to phone a broker that quotes insurance policies on experimental aircraft, and ask how much and what kind of experience is required before they will write you flying an RV solo.

--Paul
 
There's no hard and fast rule, Tony...

....but almost to a man, they wanted 5 hours dual to be insured. I trained a bunch of guys, some with 80 TT and they did fine. Then again, another had 1000 hours and couldn't find his butt with both hands, so it depends so much on the individual's recency and personal ability. Often the younger guys with recent experience have a pretty fast learning curve.

The second consideration is whether you're looking for a nosewheel airplane or a TD. The TD will require more time to satisfy the Insurance co, than a tri-gear.

My trainer was a -6A and most guys were OK to solo their own airplane after 5 hours and 20 or so, landings.

Best,
 
OTOH...

I just sold an RV-6a 180HP CS prop to an "older" gentleman. Believe he had 300 hrs TT and flew a nice Grumman Yankee. The demo ride lasted for 1.1 where he asked me to do a few T&G's. He asked a lot of intelligent questions, mainly about speeds and the prop control. We talked a bit about where he should get transition training and I thought that was that.

Upon delivery at his hangar he mentioned he thought he'd give it a go himself and I said I didn't know of anyone who did it that way. But of course, when I later delivered some parts to him he said he'd soloed that very morning and was loving it... I asked him if anything was surprising and he said "Yeah, the takeoff..." wasn't quite ready for the robust acceleration when solo...

So there you go... YMMV, and not recommending this by any stretch. My insurance co would have no part of it until an RV instructor signed me off, about 5 hrs worth including 3 with Mr. Segar.

But, I have seen that it most certainly can be done...


.
 
I am also low time pilot and cant comment yet since I dont have a flying airplane. But I will tell you my initial calls to insurance folks were along the lines of: 200 PIC, 25 TW and 5 hrs of dual. Of course this is for a taildragger but it gives ya an idea. I plan to have all of this in place before construction is finished.
 
I solo'd my RV3 when I had about 1100TT and 150 tailwheel in a Champ. I had less than 10 landings in an RV at that time. It was surprisingly easy. I credit the success to being very current in tailwheel planes. The 150 in Champ time all came within 18 months of my RV3 purchase.

The insurance company covered me from the first flight after some minor back and forth discussions.
 
I was one of Pierre's prot?g?s. I had about 100TT at the time and I've now put 330 hours on my -7A since 7/27/07. I had no problem finding insurance, although the premium was high the first year.
 
If I can do it...

I had about 85 hrs in 172's. Then got 5.5 hrs TD training in a 185. Then a month later bought a 6 and got another 5ish hrs dual in it, which I believe is what the insurance required.
The RV-6 is not difficult at all. But compared to the 172 it requires you to fly it more precisely. Since I've been flying my 6, I've also flown the 172 a few times. It took a little time to get used to the sloppiness of the 172 after being spoiled to the 6 doing what you want, when you want. The 185 was fun, but sorta like driving a dump truck compared to a sports car:cool: I may get banned from the "TD club" for saying this, but I'm not sure time in a 6 should even count as TD time.
As has been stated, it will vary with the individual. The guy who did my TD and 6 training said an 18,000 hr airline pilot came to him for TD training. After 5 hrs the instructor discontinued the instruction. Said the guy just didn't get using his feet. Maybe it's easier before you have to unlearn bad habits.
 
which RV?

..since no-one has yet mentioned this; my first ride was in a -6a, which I loved, but thought was a bit of a hot rod. I was instantly comfortable in a -9a, with the slower landing speeds.
I think having a 200 hp engine and CS prop with a glass panel would make any RV more challenging to transition into, so a simple one would fit some folks better.
Not to say that you couldn't be taught to be proficient in the fancy one, and ultimately wouldn't outgrow it in the long run, as you might a 125 hp -9a with a steam panel.
 
For what it's worth..

I think having a 200 hp engine and CS prop with a glass panel would make any RV more challenging to transition into, so a simple one would fit some folks better.

Don't let the airplane intimidate you. I soloed for my PPL in my 6, have never flown anything else, fly it weekly. It is as described above. Just pay attention.
 
They do......

Can I ask: What company insured you for that? A friend of mine looked into that a bit, and I thought he said everyone wanted at least a PPL already.

--Paul

You're right, they now all want PPL to insure. I was probably the last they will write. (at least for now). The company who wrote it last year could not get reinsurance for this. Current company has made it very clear, they will not do this again. I will be taking my checkride in next month or so. Truth is it would have been easier to get PPL in a "can". The 6 is very fast, but I guess it's what you get use to, I don't know anything else, but this is not the way to do it. I have been check out by a few instructors who fly RV's, they all coment that I fly it safely, but it is very intense to learn in.
 
9A

I got my licence while building my -9A. I had 70 hours TT when I made my first solo flight in the 9A. I had about 2 hours of Transition Training.

Dave
 
I think having a 200 hp engine and CS prop with a glass panel would make any RV more challenging to transition into, so a simple one would fit some folks better.
I think this is very true. And beyond that, having a *basic* panel to deal with helps too. I did my transition training in a -6 that had a, well, rather full panel. Probably twice the steam gauges that any sane man needs. When I bought my -6, it had a basic VFR panel, and I found it a *lot* easier to deal with. It was more "familiar" when compared to the other homebuilts or cessnas that i'd flown, because it didn't have any extra bells and whistles.

Now that i've got the basic -6, I can upgrade as time passes. Glass panel, larger engine, CS prop, etc. are all options, but none are really necessary. I can just tinker and tweak to improve it over time.
 
Pierre,
Your experience as a transition instructor is helpful to this discussion. In your experience, what is the most frequent source of difficulty to transitioning students?
 
Hi Don...

...almost to a man, they never expected to have to use this much right rudder....90% of them head for the left side of the runway, even after my "right rudder, right rudder" exhortation:)

Secondly, is overcontrol. I gave a guy some dual in his -7A a few days ago and the flare was a stair-step affair. The RV's need a slow, wrist curl for the flare and not a rearward movement of the stick, as in a Cessna or Cherokee.

I guess I tell guys most often ,that the less you do, the better the outcome...small control inputs and gentle ones at that....I equate it to the way a good lover caresses his mate...gently.

Best,
 
Pierre,
The stair step flair is something that I still struggle with...especially with a heavy pax in the back seat of the -8. I will try your "wrist curl" technique and see if it helps. I have found that once I start the flair, I had better not interrupt the slow aft movement or things get clunky.
 
I have just bought an RV-8, and am having a heck of a time getting checked out in it! I have finally been put in touch with a guy on the field that flies an RV-4 regularly and owns a Great Lakes. I told him that I have a comm ASMEL with an instrument rating and just less than 1000 hrs in FW, but ZERO tail dragger time! :( He suggested that we spend the first 4-5 hours in his Great Lakes, since, "..everything happens a bit slower in the biplane..". That makes perfect sense to me.

I am also an ATP and CFI in helicopters with over 10,000 hrs, but the insurance company really didn't care much about that. It seems to me that they are accutely aware of my lack of TD time. I am required to have 20 hrs of dual in type, along with 25 landings to a full stop. The landings will pile up quickly, but 20 hours is going to take a while!

I am really thrilled about the prospect of flying a Great Lakes though! :D I do not anticipate having a problem adjusting to the tail wheel, or the need to pay attention to my feet, but I am a little nervous just the same. :eek:
 
... but 20 hours is going to take a while!

I can attest to that! Especially as the CFI in the back seat of a -4 during the Kansas winter. Even the warmers stuffed in shoes and gloves didn't help that much. It is all worth it though!

Fly safe,

-Jim
 
I've got 160 hours total time with 70 of those being in Pitts S2A/B/C. I'm guessing that an RV should be fairly easy to come to terms with for me?
 
Oh yeah.......

......and don't let that great visibility over the nose scare ya!! You'll finally be able to see where you're going:)

Best,
 
Awesome, now I just have to find someone in the Sydney area with an RV that they will let me have a go in :)
 
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