What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Lycoming Mandatory SB 612 IO-360-M Series

sfloridaboy

sfloridaboy

Member
Lycoming put out a "Mandatory" service bulletin No. 612, dated 5 April 2016, that requires replacing dipstick P/N LW-16783-18 with PN LW-14760 as the original dipstick "incorrectly gives higher oil level indication when the oil level is actually less than 5 quarts (5 liters)."
 
Would the dipstick reading vary between a TD and nose wheel RV due to the angle of the fuselage on the ground?

What angle does Lycoming assume the engine is at when you check it?
 
Interesting!

sfloridaboy said:
Lycoming put out a "Mandatory" service bulletin No. 612, dated 5 April 2016, that requires replacing dipstick P/N LW-16783-18 with PN LW-14760 as the original dipstick "incorrectly gives higher oil level indication when the oil level is actually less than 5 quarts (5 liters)."
Click to expand...

My vintage 2007 Mattituck M1B clone came with an unmarked dipstick. I had to level the airplane, account for the filter volume and then add oil two quarts at a time and mark the stick at various levels myself. I'd be interested to compare my dipstick to one of the recommended ones as well as the older factory marked ones.

Joe
 
Caveman said:
My vintage 2007 Mattituck M1B clone came with an unmarked dipstick. I had to level the airplane, account for the filter volume and then add oil two quarts at a time and mark the stick at various levels myself. I'd be interested to compare my dipstick to one of the recommended ones as well as the older factory marked ones.

Joe
Click to expand...

Why on earth would you level the airplane first? If you had a tailwheel or trike (on a level floor) with properly serviced tires and struts as applicable, it would make sense to mark the dipstick.

I'm not leveling a tailwheel or trike airplane to check the oil before flight....


When I calibrated the a digital fuel gauge in a C177, I leveled the airplane on jacks. When I fabricated the fuel tank dipstick, It was on level ground with properly serviced tires & strut.
 
Last edited:
SB 612

Just spoke with Mark @Lycoming tech support. He was very pleasant and suggested checking with Lycon to see what they have for info on dipstick they installed. Also will check part # on the dipstick I have; may save a call. Mark did not rule out warranty coverage if I have the original part # (LW 1`6783-18). Will follow up.
 
az_gila said:
Would the dipstick reading vary between a TD and nose wheel RV due to the angle of the fuselage on the ground?

What angle does Lycoming assume the engine is at when you check it?
Click to expand...

I was surprised to find very little difference when I did this a few years back.
 
I saw this earlier today and took a few minutes in a hectic day to call Vans to see if they would be the "authorized Lycoming distributor" since I bought it through them. Barb had not heard of the issue yet and was appreciative of the heads up. I could not stay on the phone long enough to get a formal answer since she needed to check with others. I hope to check in with her Thursday.

I have a couple of questions yet to be answered.

1) The SB says to identify the current part. So....how do I do that? Is the part number actually embossed on it somewhere? I have not been to the plane yet to see for myself.

2) How much of a level change is this really? I have not noticed any descrepancies in level indication after the 12 oil changes I have done so far. It shows what I put in and then drops a bit when I fill the new filter after the first start. Exactly as I would expect. Far from clear to me that the current dipstick in my YIO-360-M1B is actually wrong.
 
rzbill said:
Is the part number actually embossed on it somewhere? I have not been to the plane yet to see for myself.
Click to expand...
That is correct, I am not at the hanger to look at it now but I have seen the part number on it, at least on the stick portion but can't recall if there is any part number on the cap portion. I will be checking mine this weekend and it would be great if VANs can provide it since I bought my engine thru them too.
 
Yep...it's embossed on the stick. Stopped by the hangar to verify I have the one that needs replacement.

Please let us know what Van's says, as I also bought mine through Van's as part of the engine/prop combination deal.

Like others, I'm a bit stymied as to how far off the measurement could actually be...plus I always add a quart when it gets down around 5 quarts, anyway (more than 6 and it just dumps it out the breather). Oil analyses are always great, so I must be doing something right :).
 
Caveman said:
My vintage 2007 Mattituck M1B clone came with an unmarked dipstick. I had to level the airplane, account for the filter volume and then add oil two quarts at a time and mark the stick at various levels myself. I'd be interested to compare my dipstick to one of the recommended ones as well as the older factory marked ones.

Joe
Click to expand...


Mine as well from Mattituck, yet I did all my levels in the tail down wit one quart intervals, stamping the stick appropriately at 4, 5, 6, 7 quart levels. Ran the engine and made note of how much the oil filter held
 
rzbill said:
I hope to check in with her Thursday.
Click to expand...

Did that a few minutes ago. Vans is reaching out to Lycoming but no resolution yet on whether Vans will be directly involved. Barb said she would e-mail me when an answer is available. I will post when she does.

rzbill said:
1) The SB says to identify the current part. So....how do I do that? Is the part number actually embossed on it somewhere? I have not been to the plane yet to see for myself.
Click to expand...

Thanks to the multiple folks that answered this.
 
bnt83 said:
Why on earth would you level the airplane first? If you had a tailwheel or trike (on a level floor) with properly serviced tires and struts as applicable, it would make sense to mark the dipstick.

I'm not leveling a tailwheel or trike airplane to check the oil before flight....


When I calibrated the a digital fuel gauge in a C177, I leveled the airplane on jacks. When I fabricated the fuel tank dipstick, It was on level ground with properly serviced tires & strut.
Click to expand...

My floor was sloped for drainage. I leveled the airplane side to side, not fore and aft. It probably didn't make a thimbles worth of difference but that's why...
 
Van's is an OEM engine dealer, NOT an authorized parts distributor (so I've been told). The dipstick in our late 2013 IO-360-M1B is listed in the SB so I called both Van's and Lycoming. The closest parts distributor is Aviall and I worked with the local Portland office to order the new dipstick and o-ring. They indicated the dipstick is on a 30-day backorder. Aviall handles the warranty paperwork and RMA to get the defective one back.
If your dipstick p/n is included in the SB, give your local Lycoming parts distributor a call and they can take care of you.
 
Got an email from Barb at Van's and it confirms what Trevor said above. Vans is not a parts distributor. We will each need to find our own local distributor.
 
rzbill said:
Got an email from Barb at Van's and it confirms what Trevor said above. Vans is not a parts distributor. We will each need to find our own local distributor.
Click to expand...

Has anyone talked to Aircraft Spruce? They carry the replacement stick...
 
TCONROY said:
Van's is an OEM engine dealer, NOT an authorized parts distributor (so I've been told). The dipstick in our late 2013 IO-360-M1B is listed in the SB so I called both Van's and Lycoming. The closest parts distributor is Aviall and I worked with the local Portland office to order the new dipstick and o-ring. They indicated the dipstick is on a 30-day backorder. Aviall handles the warranty paperwork and RMA to get the defective one back.
If your dipstick p/n is included in the SB, give your local Lycoming parts distributor a call and they can take care of you.
Click to expand...

I checked mine and surely it is effected by this SB. I called Avial and they told me that I will need to go thru a FBO to get it processed as they do not deal with individuals directly. So, I gave them the name of the FBO in my airport and they are going to forward the paperwork to them. As a note, my deepstick had been marked originally by Lycoming but I guess those markings are not accurate.
 
Complied

I picked up my replace stick today...it's about 3/8ths of an inch longer than the original and the markings have been move that corresponding difference. Wow, this seems like a tempest in a teapot as I must say I don't read mine that close when I pull it...needs to be off by a whole quart before I add...well, $167 later I hope Lycoming covers under warranty...
 
Berchmans said:
I picked up my replace stick today...it's about 3/8ths of an inch longer than the original and the markings have been move that corresponding difference. Wow, this seems like a tempest in a teapot as I must say I don't read mine that close when I pull it...needs to be off by a whole quart before I add...well, $167 later I hope Lycoming covers under warranty...
Click to expand...

Do you think you could post a photo showing both of them side by side?

I think I am confused. If the new one is longer then the old one with the same spacing of the markings starting at the bottom the old one should show a lower oil level indication then there actually exists. That would be a safe but potentially wasteful condition. However, the SB says the old one gives a higher oil level reading then there actually exists which is an unsafe condition so I am confused.

Would also be good to know how the warranty claim works out for you. I certainly won't spend 167$ for a new dip stick out of my pocket if I can just recalibrate the old one at my next oil change for free... . After all mandatory SBs have little legal meaning for an experimental engine... .

Oliver
 
What if I do nothing? i.e. do not comply.

The SB says "5 quarts (5 liters)" like that is the same. Granted .28qt would seem like a minor difference, but 3/8" is probably less than that.


So - what happens with my new M1B, if I do nothing with this? Not to the engine, that is not relevant - it is the paperwork that counts to lawyers, FAA, and insurance.
 
I think I may just stamp "ish" next to each of the numbers on my dipstick......:mad:

Previous post about the new stick being longer has really got me curious.
 
Twin Comanche Oil Level has been off for 50 years

My 50 year old Twin Comanche has identical dipsticks on the Lycoming IO-320-C1A engines. However, the engines are not level due to the dihedral of the wings. What this means is that the left engine dipstick will indicate 1 qt more than actual and the right engine dipstick will indicate 1 qt less than actual. Its been this way for 50 years without a SB or AD.

Those of us with tail-draggers will also have an indication issue when parked no matter what dipstick you use. Sounds like this SB was issued without a lot of thought of reality or actual use. Maybe there is a market for custom made dip sticks for the newbie who has no knowledge of these matters. Who knows.
 
When I changed the sump on my IO360 from Lyc standard to Superior forward facing, I simply made the *assumption* that the sump levels might be different, buffed out the marks on the dipstick and remarked it by pouring in a quart at a time. The new marks are almost exactly on top of the old ones...
 
Much can be ascertained by finding out

I think I am confused. If the new one is longer then the old one with the same spacing of the markings starting at the bottom the old one should show a lower oil level indication then there actually exists. That would be a safe but potentially wasteful condition. However, the SB says the old one gives a higher oil level reading then there actually exists which is an unsafe condition so I am confused. - Oliver
Click to expand...

The dip stick is longer, but the 4 quart mark is higher up than before.
 
Lux Wrangler said:
The dip stick is longer, but the 4 quart mark is higher up than before.
Click to expand...

I did an oil change on my M1B today and the above note agrees with what I read on the "bad" 16783-18 dipstick. I put in 4 quarts and the oil level read well above the 4Q mark (I did not measure but it looked like 3/8 to 1/2"). Put in 5 quarts and did measure it. The level showed 3/8" higher than the midpoint between the 4Q and 6Q mark. Hmmm, does that mean I have been slack for 4 years? Not so fast, I don't run that low plus..........

I put in another quart to make it six and what do you know but the dipstick read 6Q dead on.

The upshot is, now I know. I may change the stick if I get around to it but it is no emergency for me personally. YMMV.

On a separate note I installed a Fumoto 202 oil drain valve today. :D No more fooling with the pipe plug. Only took 10 oil changes to make me get around to it. :rolleyes:
 
rzbill said:
On a separate note I installed a Fumoto 202 oil drain valve today. :D No more fooling with the pipe plug. Only took 10 oil changes to make me get around to it. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Interesting, data usually is. On the off-topic: I installed the same valve with the nipple for attaching a hose. Will you be safety wiring the handle? How?
 
BillL said:
Interesting, data usually is. On the off-topic: I installed the same valve with the nipple for attaching a hose. Will you be safety wiring the handle? How?
Click to expand...

Hi Bill,
I think I will not safety the Fumoto handle. It's locking design satisfies my engineering brain. However, since the original pipe plug was safetied, I decided to maintain that level by drilling a hole in the Fumoto flange and wiring the valve to the engine.

*****Edit**** BillL, I was at the hangar today, cleaning and swapping plugs. You talked me into safety wiring the handle. :)
 
Last edited:
Dipstick. Lyc SB 612

My new dipstick arrived today, in c/w with Lycoming SB 612.9 The new dipstick is longer and I'll try to post photographs. The markings are definitely different, in that if the old stick oil level measured five or six the new stick actually shows a higher level; that is more than five or more than six. However at four, the old dipstick shows more oil in the crankcase then the new one does. The markings are quite nonlinear. The M-series engines seem to have a smaller crank case minimum oil level of four quarts compared to 2 3/4 on many other Lycomings. The dipstick was ordered through Air Power Inc in Texas. They were very nice to deal with. The seal (O ring) was not included with the dipstick.
 
rzbill said:
Hi Bill,
I think I will not safety the Fumoto handle. It's locking design satisfies my engineering brain. However, since the original pipe plug was safetied, I decided to maintain that level by drilling a hole in the Fumoto flange and wiring the valve to the engine.

*****Edit**** BillL, I was at the hangar today, cleaning and swapping plugs. You talked me into safety wiring the handle. :)
Click to expand...

Funny, I really was just asking. I looked at the slot and then at the safety wire hole that was used for the plug. I just fastened one end of the wire on the handle and around to the original spot for the plug. Double duty. Vibration certainly would not knock it loose, as diesels are pretty active, but don't do acrobatics. I guess now we are both covered!
 
Air Power Inc is tops!

Bill Dicus said:
... The dipstick was ordered through Air Power Inc in Texas. They were very nice to deal with ...
Click to expand...

Thank you for the tip on Air Power Inc, Bill. You're right: Natalie in Warranty/Parts Cores made it very easy for me. (Everyone else from my local Aviall Distributor to the Lycoming factory got that "deer in the headlights" look when I asked about a dipstick for an experimental engine.)

Below is a picture comparing the markings of the new vs. old dipsticks. (The markings on the original dipstick at 5 and 7 quarts are my own).

I cannot understand how Lycoming screwed it up so badly: relying on their markings would allow you to overfill at the 6- or 8-quart marks or underfill at the 4-quart mark (which is the minimum oil quantity for this engine).

Dipstick.jpg


--
Joe
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top