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  #1  
Old 07-13-2018, 02:08 PM
jcboon jcboon is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 11
Default 27iS - 04 fuel tube bend/flare?

I cannot figure out how to do this. In step 3 the flare is to be made first, and then the bend. That won't work with my bender.
But bend first and flare afterwards works. Just.

But I cannot figure out a way how to get the sleeve in place before bending or flaring. Any suggestions?





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RV-12iS, emp, 1 wing, working on the fuselage

Last edited by jcboon : 07-26-2018 at 10:50 AM.
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  #2  
Old 07-13-2018, 03:34 PM
STEVEM STEVEM is offline
 
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It may not be possible to create that tube, 'K', using Van's dimensions. I was a beta-tester for a RV12is tubing kit that Aircraft Specialty is putting together. They have that tube, pre-bent and pre-flared. It fits perfectly. Talk to Steve at Aircraft Specialty.

The way they get the collar around those bends is to shorten the portion of the collar that goes through the 'B' nut.
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  #3  
Old 07-13-2018, 04:23 PM
Aircraft Specialty Aircraft Specialty is offline
 
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Location: Oconomowoc, WI
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It is not possible to do this exactly as per the directions while utilizing a standard bender and flaring tool.

For those of you who are fabricating this tube yourself....here is a trick that we sometimes use. If you shorten the collar to approximately half length or a little shorter, you can manipulate the collar around the bend into place.

The K tube is going to be one of the tubes we offer pre built, along with the E, F, G, H, and J tubes. The A and D tubes will have to be fabricated at the actual aircraft, and the B and C tubes are still in the decision making process. We are just awaiting test fitting results from a few beta testers at the moment and anticipate a full release sometime in late fall once data starts coming in from the early Powerplant kit recipients.


The K tube can be flared with the collar in place, but it requires a modified set of flaring dies. Here is a link to a video showing some of the rigid tube fabrication processes that Aircraft Specialty and TS Flightlines have been working on.

http://aircraftspecialty.com/howwemake.html

In the rigid tube video, the 17:55 mark shows the modified flaring dies to be able to flare with a full length collar in place.

This stuff is lots of fun, and we really have appreciated all the help from the early RV12iS builders to get this project jump started.

Take care and happy building,
Steve
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www.aircraftspecialty.com

Last edited by Aircraft Specialty : 07-13-2018 at 04:36 PM. Reason: Time stamp in video
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  #4  
Old 07-13-2018, 05:18 PM
TS Flightlines TS Flightlines is offline
 
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Location: Ridgeland, SC
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Steve and I have been working on this since last year, Oshkosh time. Mostly Steve and the beta testers, but its been a long process. Several of the beta testers had attempted to make these with common flaring tools and benders, but were having difficulties getting things to fit.

With the newly installed processes we have, Steve was able to make the tubes fit the fuselage. Steve posted the video of those processes. A couple of the tubes are a little problematic, not from a bending or fabrication point of view, but from an installation after the fabrication, AND the LARGE box needed to ship the pre bent--long tubes. I also understand that there is an edge-distance issue around some of the bulkheads that prevent pre-flaring the tubes on both ends with the nuts and sleeves. I havent seen this up close and personal, but I'm pretty sure we can find a way to do it. Gee--real time pics of this would be awesome if someone has them.

With the release of the engines, the testers should be able to finalize everything in a couple of months.

Thanks to all that helped to develop this package!!
Tom and Steve
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Teflon Hose Assemblies for Experimentals
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RV7 Tail Kit Completed, Fuse started-Pay as I go Plan
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www.tsflightlines.com
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  #5  
Old 07-13-2018, 08:25 PM
rv9builder rv9builder is offline
 
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Location: Irvine, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS Flightlines View Post
A couple of the tubes are a little problematic, not from a bending or fabrication point of view, but from an installation after the fabrication, AND the LARGE box needed to ship the pre bent--long tubes.
Could you coil the long tubes for shipping, or would that be a problem because unless the builder unrolls them perfectly flat and straight, they would no longer be the exact length necessary for a good fit?
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  #6  
Old 07-13-2018, 08:53 PM
Aircraft Specialty Aircraft Specialty is offline
 
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Location: Oconomowoc, WI
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Mark,

That's a very good question. You are correct in that they would have to be unrolled EXACTLY perfectly for them to fit correct.

The issue is not the ability to bend the long lines. The issue is the fact that the long lines are impossible to install if they have already been bent into their final bent configuration.

The B and C lines we can fabricate and require just a bit of builder manipulation to put into place.

The E, F, G, H, J, and K lines pose no issues to install once bent into their final configuration.

The good news is that the longer lines are actually easier for a builder to fabricate in some ways because there is more play and leeway in them.

There is the potential of fabricating lines that could be installed before everything is riveted together, and we may explore that option in the future. However, since we don't have a 12iS fuse here to experiment with, we are planning on an initial release that will consist of the B and C lines,(most likely) and then all the lines in the aft end of the fuselage.

Steve and Tom
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Aircraft Specialty is Your Source for Custom CNC parts, CNC cut instrument panels and labeling, Teflon fuel/oil hoses, Headsets, and many other items for Experimental Aircraft.

aircraftspecialty@gmail.com

www.aircraftspecialty.com
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  #7  
Old 07-14-2018, 07:08 AM
TS Flightlines TS Flightlines is offline
 
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Steve is going a good job of working through this.
Tom
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Teflon Hose Assemblies for Experimentals
Proud Vendor for RV1, Donator to VAF
RV7 Tail Kit Completed, Fuse started-Pay as I go Plan
Ridgeland, SC
www.tsflightlines.com

Last edited by TS Flightlines : 07-14-2018 at 07:38 AM.
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  #8  
Old 07-14-2018, 11:40 AM
jcboon jcboon is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 11
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Thanks for the information and advise on the tubing. I like to bend and flare the tubes myself, and understand that I have basically two options. Either clut the sleeve, or make the bend half an inch lower/further from the tank. So that you can put the sleeve on the bent tube and then still flare it.

Do you know if there is an important reason from a space or perhaps fuel flow perspective against the idea of a bend half an inch lower?
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  #9  
Old 07-14-2018, 11:57 AM
Aircraft Specialty Aircraft Specialty is offline
 
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Location: Oconomowoc, WI
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Jeroen,

Unfortunately I do not know the answer to the question about the space and why Vans designed a tube with the bend that close to the flare. I don't know if there is any interference in that area, or if it is just the "optimal" tube routing that Solidworks came up with.

I know that the shortened collar trick works, but you have to be careful when tightening the nut that the collar is seated properly and protruding through the back of the nut.


I would ask those questions of Vans and let us know what their response is.


I think that you will see a variety of solutions to this in the field for builders that do fabricate them on their own, because as you found out, it is not possible to build and flare the tube as designed utilizing standard unmodified tooling. The dies that we had built to do close in flaring would be difficult to replicate on a standard hand flaring tool without extensive modification to that tool.


Happy building!

Steve
__________________
Aircraft Specialty is Your Source for Custom CNC parts, CNC cut instrument panels and labeling, Teflon fuel/oil hoses, Headsets, and many other items for Experimental Aircraft.

aircraftspecialty@gmail.com

www.aircraftspecialty.com

Last edited by Aircraft Specialty : 07-14-2018 at 12:01 PM.
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  #10  
Old 07-15-2018, 03:49 AM
jcboon jcboon is offline
 
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Steve,

Thanks. If I learn more I will post it.
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