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  #21  
Old 09-12-2016, 11:53 PM
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czechsix czechsix is offline
 
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Location: Spring Hill, KS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Froehlich View Post
Just did a W&B on an IO-390 RV-14. The plane has a custom two blade composite prop instead of the Hartzell BA CS prop. The effect is that the plane, while lighter than the Van's prototype, cannot use the full gross weight as the nose is light. We are thinking of adding a second PC-680 battery on the firewall to both compensate for the light prop, and add some much needed battery reserve.
Carl, would the -14 owner allow you to post the empty weight and CG for us? Would be nice to add it to the W&B thread (http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...d.php?t=133335) along with any helpful details like what engine, prop, avionics, paint (single stage, clearcoat, no paint), etc.

I looked at the W&B info for Vans prototype airplanes and substituted a Whirlwind 74RV in lieu of the Hartzell and it seemed like you could still put two full size adults, full fuel, and the placarded 100 lb baggage allowance without exceeding the aft CG. I was hoping to go with the WW prop for the weight savings and smoother operation, so I'm keenly interested in understanding what specific prop was on the -14 you're referring to and why it has the aft CG limitation...

Thanks,
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  #22  
Old 09-13-2016, 07:25 AM
YellowJacket RV9 YellowJacket RV9 is offline
 
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Location: Clearwater, FL / KZPH
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Originally Posted by czechsix View Post
...If you look around you can probably get a mid-time IO-360 angle valve engine for half the price of a new IO-390. So knock another $15K off the estimator price. I have no doubt you can build a -14 for less than what a lot of people have in their RV-7.

If you do a good job building it you should get your money back out of the airplane either way. So...as long as you can figure out a way to afford it, build the airplane you really want.
I agree. I was in a a similar boat when deciding what to build. I'm most definitely on a budget. I looked at the Sonex, some similar kits, and the RV's. I could have built a Sonex with everything new and all the bells and whistles, but the Sonex wasn't what I REALLY wanted. Instead, I decided to build a simple 9A with a used engine, FP prop, and a simple glass panel with a good number of used avionics. It's all the airplane I could ever ask for, and lightyears ahead of the 172's and 182's I was flying. And for the record, while it's as easy to fly and land (or easier) than a 172, the flying qualities are nowhere near the same. I never felt directly connected to the 172 the way I do to the RV. Much closer to the 6A I did transition training in than to any spam can.

Chris
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  #23  
Old 09-13-2016, 08:28 AM
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Brent 801 Brent 801 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Conroe, TX
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Originally Posted by kamikaze View Post
The IO-390 is advertised at 38 700 on Van's web site ... is it common for clients to get discounts like this? I figured the 1000$ oshkosh "combo deal" was the best I could ever hope for, but this is a big difference in price ... that's only 2-4K more than the O-320s' advertised price!
The $31400 price for the IO-390 from Vans was the air show price bundled with the prop purchase. It would have been $1000 more if not for the purchase of the prop.

Total cost for engine and prop was just over $39k. Includes Long term storage and shipping. Like I said, pretty competitive for new components.

You probably can get a similar deal during S&F and OSH.
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  #24  
Old 09-13-2016, 10:26 AM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
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Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
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Default RV-14A W&B

Quote:
Originally Posted by czechsix View Post
Carl, would the -14 owner allow you to post the empty weight and CG for us? Would be nice to add it to the W&B thread (http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...d.php?t=133335) along with any helpful details like what engine, prop, avionics, paint (single stage, clearcoat, no paint), etc.
This RV-14A has a new from Van's IO-390 engine and a custom composite two blade CS prop (uses a Hartzell hub). The plane is built to plans, has a full dual EFIS IFR panel, and not yet painted (I suspect the paint will aggravate the nose light issue as the majority of the paint weight will be aft of CG). Seven qts of oil in the sump. The one battery (PC-680) is mounted on the firewall per the plans. As I previously mentioned, I suspect we'll end up putting another PC-680 battery on the firewall to help the CG issue and to address the woefully inadequate battery reserve offered by the single battery.

Here are the numbers. Plug them into the Van's W&B spreadsheet:
Right wheel: 434.5
Left wheel: 425.5
Nose wheel: 352.0

Here is the problem. At full 2050 pound gross (219 pound pilot and passenger, 100 pounds of baggage and full fuel) the CG is at 89.6" (aft limit is 88.24").

Carl
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  #25  
Old 09-13-2016, 08:20 PM
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czechsix czechsix is offline
 
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Location: Spring Hill, KS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Froehlich View Post
Here is the problem. At full 2050 pound gross (219 pound pilot and passenger, 100 pounds of baggage and full fuel) the CG is at 89.6" (aft limit is 88.24").
I posted some comments in the W&B thread. I think there may be an error somewhere in the measurements or calculations...the CG you're getting doesn't seem possible on an unpainted -14A no matter what kind of CS prop you're using...
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  #26  
Old 08-05-2018, 12:19 PM
cmadams52 cmadams52 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Bellevue
Posts: 2
Default Budget Cross Check

All, I sat down and looked at the plans for the 14/14A and developed a budget for what I think my 14A build will look like. My plan is basically the kit standard with a nice glass IFR panel. Do these numbers check?

Forward of Firewall (Engine, prop & all)- $50,209
Aft of Firewall (AF, seats, controls, ect)- $39,134
Avionics - $40,290
Projected Total Cost - $133,632
Projected Overrun - $13,363
Projected Cost with Overrun - $146,995
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  #27  
Old 08-05-2018, 12:55 PM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmadams52 View Post
All, I sat down and looked at the plans for the 14/14A and developed a budget for what I think my 14A build will look like. My plan is basically the kit standard with a nice glass IFR panel. Do these numbers check?

Forward of Firewall (Engine, prop & all)- $50,209
Aft of Firewall (AF, seats, controls, ect)- $39,134
Avionics - $40,290
Projected Total Cost - $133,632
Projected Overrun - $13,363
Projected Cost with Overrun - $146,995
You are in the ballpark.

My RV-10 (new engine/prop/glass/paint) came in at $153K (flying six years). The current RV-8 project will top out at $113K.

Just got done buying all the avionics (dual screen SkyView IFR panel with GTN-650). That all came in at $29K, but Iím making the panel. Your $40K estimate looks like it might be a touch high - depending of course on how much you pile on.

Carl
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  #28  
Old 08-05-2018, 01:37 PM
n982sx n982sx is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmadams52 View Post
All, I sat down and looked at the plans for the 14/14A and developed a budget for what I think my 14A build will look like. My plan is basically the kit standard with a nice glass IFR panel. Do these numbers check?

Forward of Firewall (Engine, prop & all)- $50,209
Aft of Firewall (AF, seats, controls, ect)- $39,134
Avionics - $40,290
Projected Total Cost - $133,632
Projected Overrun - $13,363
Projected Cost with Overrun - $146,995
Your projected overrun is equal to my paint job. Including taxes mine came out to $135K. My avionics could have reached $40K easily but I opted for a G5 instead of a second G3x screen and I went GTN 625 instead of a GTN 650.
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  #29  
Old 08-05-2018, 03:08 PM
Ron B. Ron B. is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Yarmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 2,238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmadams52 View Post
All, I sat down and looked at the plans for the 14/14A and developed a budget for what I think my 14A build will look like. My plan is basically the kit standard with a nice glass IFR panel. Do these numbers check?

Forward of Firewall (Engine, prop & all)- $50,209
Aft of Firewall (AF, seats, controls, ect)- $39,134
Avionics - $40,290
Projected Total Cost - $133,632
Projected Overrun - $13,363
Projected Cost with Overrun - $146,995
What about shipping cost , paint, taxes, tools (always need new tools) inspection fees? It adds up fast.
Nothing special in mine and I did not go that high on avionics ,(dual Skyview) but I've got more in mine than what has been quoted. Painted the aircraft myself, just had to buy supplies.
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