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  #71  
Old 08-11-2018, 12:03 AM
charosenz's Avatar
charosenz charosenz is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Longview, Wash
Posts: 72
Default Meth Injection Update

I did some more indepth testing today of the meth injection system. I am very happy with the results. I can add photos if anyone wants to see them let me know.

I am using a M2 spray tip. This is roughly a 150cc/min tip at 115psi. Or just about 2 Gal/Hr.

I am using 50/50% water/Meth.

I see a 22* drop in temp in the Air Intake Temp when I add meth while at 5250 RPM which is 35+ Manifold Pressure. It drops from 150* down to 128* very fast. This is a very simple proof-of-concept set up. A $30 diaphram spray pump, a pressure gauge and the nozzle. Thats it. About $50 total.

This is really all I need at such a low boost setting. I may add an intercooler just to see how effective it is, but at these settings it will probably be more time and money than it is worth.

Let me know if anyone has questions.

Charlie
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  #72  
Old 08-11-2018, 06:06 AM
rv7charlie rv7charlie is offline
 
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Location: Pocahontas MS
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Are you actually running methanol mix, and not ethanol? If so, any issues with materials degradation in the methanol path?
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  #73  
Old 08-11-2018, 08:55 AM
ksdflying ksdflying is offline
 
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Location: Spokane Washington
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SMH. Yes...that is shaking my head. Humm. being a previous engineer at Honda, I can only imagine the reaction from the engine designers as they shake their heads and pound the table pondering 'what, wait just a second, but I didn't design the engine for that. If they wanted that I would've done this.'
Humm. Not too sure about this. You need to second think that engine ideal your chasing.
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  #74  
Old 08-11-2018, 10:22 AM
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charosenz charosenz is offline
 
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Default What is Meth injection?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ksdflying View Post
SMH. Yes...that is shaking my head. Humm. being a previous engineer at Honda, I can only imagine the reaction from the engine designers as they shake their heads and pound the table pondering 'what, wait just a second, but I didn't design the engine for that. If they wanted that I would've done this.'
Humm. Not too sure about this. You need to second think that engine ideal your chasing.
RV7CHarlie .... KSDflying .....

My apologies, no, I am not adding methanol directly in to the fuel.

This is injection of a finely atomized (mist) mixture of 50% water and 50% methanol in to the intake plenum. It a very common procedure and has many benefits to cool the IAT. It was first used in WWII to cool the IAT on B-17 Bombers and has been widely used every since by people who have turbos and are interested in reducing their IAT. It is a simple method to either reduce temps and therefor reduce stress on the engine,which is why I am looking into it. Or, for others, it is also a way to allow the engine to safely operate at higher performance settings.

Some readers may be asking themselves....so...if it is so good why don't we see it in mass production of OEM turbo cars? I have seen this questions posed to OEM engineers and invariably point to what they know the average car owner will do, or more importantly, NOT do.....refill the 50%/50% mixture. For the forgetful car owner, this will only result with a bad reputation for that car and for that reason we will not see it in mass production.

I'm not really saying this is for everyone, but for those with a desire to learn and adopt some of the added benefits of some of the slick advances in technology it can be something worth looking in to and trying.

Charlie
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  #75  
Old 08-11-2018, 10:58 AM
rv7charlie rv7charlie is offline
 
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I understood that you were using it to as a charge cooler. Just wondering why methanol instead of ethanol, given the more corrosive nature of methanol. Is it really that superior to ethanol, as a charge cooler?

Are you planning for it to be an octane booster, in addition to cooling the intake charge?

I assume you're not using it continuously, but only while under high boost?

Charlie
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  #76  
Old 08-11-2018, 03:25 PM
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charosenz charosenz is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rv7charlie View Post
I understood that you were using it to as a charge cooler. Just wondering why methanol instead of ethanol, given the more corrosive nature of methanol. Is it really that superior to ethanol, as a charge cooler?

Are you planning for it to be an octane booster, in addition to cooling the intake charge?

I assume you're not using it continuously, but only while under high boost?

Charlie
RV7charlie,

Ethanol is doable. Probably 90% of the people chose methanol. It cools a bit better than ethanol, and it is about 25% of the cost of ethanol. Since this is being induced in to a plastic Intake, and aluminum head the corrosion issue, as compared to ethanol is not a concern for most people.

This is simply a way to best reduce IAT which has several benefits. It allows for a bit more advance of ignition, which of course allows for better performance. It increases safety margins from detonation. And you can add more boost, but for me, it is more about the engine being less stressed at lower IAT than it is about trying to squeeze extra power out of it. Hope that makes sense.

I am not flying with this set up yet so my decision is a bit "up in the air". Sorry I could not pass on the chance for some lame humor. That being said, I suspect the injection would be for limited time, like at or above 35" of M.A.P or when intake temps are above 150F degrees. For me, that will be a limited part of the flights. I am not a racer by habit. Also, I have not began the intercooler testing yet. With the success of this meth injection it is tempting to pass on the time, weight, cost of an intercooler. But I am just too dang curious to pass on the testing so I will probably do it.

Charlie

Last edited by charosenz : 08-11-2018 at 03:34 PM.
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  #77  
Old 08-11-2018, 04:06 PM
Piper J3's Avatar
Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
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Is the water for injection distilled?
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  #78  
Old 08-11-2018, 08:06 PM
gasman gasman is offline
 
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Also, water injection will remove carbon from the combustion chamber.
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  #79  
Old 08-11-2018, 11:45 PM
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charosenz charosenz is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piper J3 View Post
Is the water for injection distilled?
I have not heard of a lot of guys going that extra step, and I think as long as it was properly filtered it would not be necessary, but that is just my thoughts.

Charlie
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  #80  
Old 08-11-2018, 11:49 PM
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charosenz charosenz is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gasman View Post
Also, water injection will remove carbon from the combustion chamber.
Gasman,

Funny you should mention that. I have seen several pictures of pistons that come out of meth injection engines and they look steam cleaned compared to a non meth injected engine.

So far my plugs, which I pull frequently, look very nice. But I honestly do not have very many hours of operation under the meth injection so I cannot say that this is really a meaningful trait - yet.

For me, it just a proof of concept that looks very encouraging for sure.

Charlie
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