VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #1  
Old 07-12-2018, 10:13 AM
bmarvel's Avatar
bmarvel bmarvel is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Grand Junction, CO
Posts: 52
Default Canopy water leak

One of the very few problems I have had with the -14A is water dripping through the seal on the forward edge of the canopy. Having owned an -8A previously for some 15 years, I never experienced this because of its slider. This leak issue may also be a problem with other tip up models.

In my airplane the leak "appears" to be from the area of the two hinge covers. But as you know, water leaks in roofs and automobile rattles can originate from locations different from where they finally show up.

This could be avoided with a canopy cover but I don't use an external one to prevent plexi scratching. I made up an internal cover instead. The airplane is normally in a hangar so the problem does not occur frequently. But to avoid it on overnight trips when rain is expected, I cover that long joint line and the hinge covers with white electrical tape. This isn't elegant but it works and the tape comes off easily with no residue.

Am curious if any of you with flying airplanes have addressed this with possibly a different seal configuration.
__________________
Bill Marvel
Grand Junction, CO
RV-8A N751MB -1700 hours, sold
RV-14A N465MM - 418 hours and climbing
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-12-2018, 11:04 AM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 8,147
Default

Flight testing was done on the prototypes to evaluate and prove that the canopy will seal out water, but the seals have to be installed (and the area they are install, prepe'ed properly) exactly as specified in the construction manual.
__________________
Any opinions expressed in this message are my own and not necessarily those of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-12-2018, 11:36 AM
bmarvel's Avatar
bmarvel bmarvel is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Grand Junction, CO
Posts: 52
Default

Did all that Scott, but still have the leak problem.

Getting the tank sealant bevel "in plane" across the joint was difficult and maybe not good enough in my situation. I used the called out sealant on the hinge covers and installed them per the plans and yet still don't know the source of the leaks (one appears on each side). But at least it's a problem with an easy work around for me.

Since this kit and airplane have been just about perfect, I wanted to point this problem out to other builders just as I did recently with the plastic versus aluminum eyeball vents.

Thanks for the quick response. Will see you at OSH if you're there.
__________________
Bill Marvel
Grand Junction, CO
RV-8A N751MB -1700 hours, sold
RV-14A N465MM - 418 hours and climbing
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-12-2018, 11:39 AM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 8,147
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmarvel View Post
Did all that Scott, but still have the leak problem.

Getting the tank sealant bevel "in plane" across the joint was difficult and maybe not good enough in my situation. I used the called out sealant on the hinge covers and installed them per the plans and yet still don't know the source of the leaks (one appears on each side). But at least it's a problem with an easy work around for me.

Since this kit and airplane have been just about perfect, I wanted to point this problem out to other builders just as I did recently with the plastic versus aluminum eyeball vents.

Thanks for the quick response. Will see you at OSH if you're there.
Did you use polyester filler (bondo) to fill the areas specified?
__________________
Any opinions expressed in this message are my own and not necessarily those of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-03-2018, 04:40 PM
Louavul's Avatar
Louavul Louavul is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rio Communities, NM
Posts: 136
Default

Scott: Are you saying that there is language in the documents stating that there is a process for sealing particular areas in the canopy installation?

Please forgive me but, in my first generation -7 docs (that I'm currently using in hopes of finishing someday) I can't find any info about installing any sealant/bondo or even any bulb seal.

Although I'm not building a -14 I do get the sense the the assembly instructions for all models have been improved dramatically. Is there somewhere I can review the current assembly instructions for tip up canopies and/or the -7 in general?

Thanks,
__________________
Steven Hild
Rio Communities, NM USA
RV-7, FWF/Fiberglass, N590SC res

Contributing annually since January 2002

Last edited by Louavul : 08-03-2018 at 04:45 PM. Reason: additional thoughts
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-03-2018, 05:11 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 8,147
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Louavul View Post
Scott: Are you saying that there is language in the documents stating that there is a process for sealing particular areas in the canopy installation?

Please forgive me but, in my first generation -7 docs (that I'm currently using in hopes of finishing someday) I can't find any info about installing any sealant/bondo or even any bulb seal.

Although I'm not building a -14 I do get the sense the the assembly instructions for all models have been improved dramatically. Is there somewhere I can review the current assembly instructions for tip up canopies and/or the -7 in general?

Thanks,
The canopy design on the RV-14 is quite different from the one on the RV-7. My comment was regarding the RV-14 canopy and plans.
__________________
Any opinions expressed in this message are my own and not necessarily those of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-04-2018, 07:01 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 4,932
Default The 7 is more challenging than the 14, a different design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Louavul View Post
Scott: Are you saying that there is language in the documents stating that there is a process for sealing particular areas in the canopy installation?

Please forgive me but, in my first generation -7 docs (that I'm currently using in hopes of finishing someday) I can't find any info about installing any sealant/bondo or even any bulb seal.

Although I'm not building a -14 I do get the sense the the assembly instructions for all models have been improved dramatically. Is there somewhere I can review the current assembly instructions for tip up canopies and/or the -7 in general?

Thanks,
Instructions and design are vastly improved for the later models.

For the 7 - - The seal is more like a teardrop shape, is very low contact pressure and not much compression. This means the perimeter gap must be correct and even. No such instructions for the 7 like the 14. The manufacturer says the adhesive life is limited and it even has a born-on date. Be sure you look at that and install soon after procurement, or be prepared to buy it again. Vans is the best source. I tried alternatives to this vans-recommended-supplied seal and the perimeter forces to compress didn't allow the canopy latch work properly (not to my satisfaction). There are many cracks and gaps to be filled, but the Vans seal will fit. I have not tested it yet, but plan a vacuum on blow attached to the vents, then will spray soapy water on the perimeter. My Phase I is complete now and the detailing begins.
__________________
Bill

RV-7
1st Flight 1-27-18
Phase II 8-3-18
Repairman 11-15-18
Instrument Currency 12-17-18
Shrunken Exit = ??
No Photo? => PM me.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-13-2019, 12:08 PM
bmarvel's Avatar
bmarvel bmarvel is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Grand Junction, CO
Posts: 52
Default No luck

Subsequent to Scott's reply I elected to redo the D seal and hinge cover seals during my January annual. I flew the plane to Oklahoma City last weekend and left it outside Saturday night when it rained pretty hard. To be on the safe side I folded two towels into about four layers and placed one on each floor in the approximate area of the hinge covers. Both were soaked in the morning.

Because I followed the install instructions explicitly both times, I'm not inclined to do all this again because I have no idea what I would do differently. The problem is not in flight -- rain doesn't come in then. It is only on the ground when the airplane is parked. I don't use canopy covers because they scratch the canopy but may have to opt to just tape over the problem areas if rain is forecast.

At this point I am wondering if any other -14 owners have left their airplanes out in the rain overnight without a canopy cover and either had leaks or did not.
__________________
Bill Marvel
Grand Junction, CO
RV-8A N751MB -1700 hours, sold
RV-14A N465MM - 418 hours and climbing
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-13-2019, 12:23 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 8,147
Default

I personally did a lot of flight testing through heavy rain and hose testing on the ground while the seals were being designed and checked.

If the hinge covers are leaking it is like not related to the D seal.

There is some details regarding finishing the pocket area that the hinges are located in, to make the seal system work in that area.

One in particular is the use of a small amount of polyester filler (bondo) to fill a void that is on each side of the hinge pocket. This is detailed in the plans and is very important. Then the foam seals that attach to the hinge covers must be sized correctly so they protrude beyond the aft sides of the hinge covers and press against the flat area that was filled with the filler. Lastly is the proper use of the non-hardening sealant that gets applied to the perimeter of the hinge covers and the hinge cover foam seal.

With a seal system like what is specified in the plans, both of the prototypes have sat outside and flown through heavy rain with no water intrusion.
__________________
Any opinions expressed in this message are my own and not necessarily those of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-13-2019, 12:35 PM
Bavafa Bavafa is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 2,747
Default

I have done a hose testing and have not had a leak but have not flown in the rain to see if it leaks. Based on my past experience with the RV7A, the rain has more force and more of a chance to leak than a garden hose.
My installation is based on the instructions and I am using a non-hardening seal for the hinge area.
__________________
Mehrdad
N825SM RV7A - IO360M1B - SOLD
N825MS RV14A - IO390 - Flying
Dues paid
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:54 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.