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  #21  
Old 08-10-2018, 08:56 PM
Davoakes@att.net Davoakes@att.net is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Greenfield, IN
Posts: 262
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Because of the comments about the Sly Tech starters, I just ordered the IO390 engine from van's. I specifically ask if I could have a B&C starter installed instead of the SkyTech. The answer was yes. I was to call B&C order the starter and send it to Lycoming and they would install the starter.

I called B&C and was told that the B&C will not fit the Horizontal Fuel Flow application. So I could not exchange the two starters. They do not make one that will fit.

I thought I would share this information with the group.
Now I do not know about the Sky Tech 149NL. That might be a possibility.
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  #22  
Old 08-10-2018, 09:51 PM
Larco Larco is offline
 
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Location: DVT Phoenix
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Many of us have installed the 149NL with Horizontal injection with no problem and I personally like it better than the lightweight. Spins nicely.
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  #23  
Old 08-11-2018, 10:00 PM
tim2542 tim2542 is offline
 
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Location: Redding,Ca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EXflyer View Post
After reading all the comments will have to agree with Scott. One thing that none of the commenters mention is checking wiring from battery to starter and starter to ground for heat. That was one thing I would do in trouble shooting a problem like this for many electrical problems. The other thing is check for voltage drop at each wire where it connects to a terminal coming from or going to the starter. One bad wire connection to a connector can cause problems but check good if not done at the wire itself.
Gotta agree with this and Scottís post as well. I was taught long ago how to put a voltmeter in parallel with a cranking circuit to indirectly measure the resistance on both the ground side and positive side. Donít pull out the CC tool until you know the wiring, solenoids, etc is not the problem.
The Odyssey battery problems youíve had are much different than what Iíve seen, Iíve had no problems at all with them, even recovered one that sat dead for a month.

Tim Andres
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  #24  
Old 08-12-2018, 09:33 AM
jakej jakej is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 84
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Agreement from me too however I did stress this to the original poster, via a phone call - with most electrical ‘issues’ you need to drill down to the basics first - it was a lesson I learned with an aircraft way back in 1997
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  #25  
Old 08-12-2018, 11:18 AM
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Av8rRob Av8rRob is offline
 
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So the NL starter apperears to cost the same and only weight 1 extra pound over the light weight one. Maybe this is a worthy modification during the engine ordering.
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  #26  
Old 08-12-2018, 01:19 PM
mturnerb mturnerb is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Ponte Vedra, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Av8rRob View Post
So the NL starter apperears to cost the same and only weight 1 extra pound over the light weight one. Maybe this is a worthy modification during the engine ordering.
My Thunderbolt engine is being built now. I emailed Jeff and asked him to switch - he was happy to do so. Not disagreeing in any way with the value/importance of doing all the appropriate troubleshooting, but I like the idea of "tried and true".
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  #27  
Old 08-12-2018, 03:04 PM
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Jesse Jesse is offline
 
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Location: X35 - Ocala, FL
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I have had he same experience. The NL starter cranks tons better than the xlt on the 540 and, Iím sure, on other models, especially with high compression.
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  #28  
Old 08-12-2018, 10:57 PM
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Toobuilder Toobuilder is offline
 
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One of the "secrets" to the NL starter is no secret at all... It has a significant mechanical advantage due to its massive gear reduction. I'm not sure any other starter bests the reduction of the
NL. Hard to beat good old fashioned leverage!
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  #29  
Old 09-12-2018, 12:22 AM
Aussieflyer Aussieflyer is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Redcliffe, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 55
Default All Fixed

Thank you everyone for your helpful advice. I wish to report that I took out the permanent magnet starter motor and installed the 149-NL as recommended.
What a difference. I know Vans said it was a bit disappointing when people use their credit cards to fix things. However this was the correct fix. I now find it a bit disappointing that Vans did not warn us that they were delivering the IO390 with a cheaper starter motor that does not operate as efficiently as a 149-NL. Had I known that at time of ordering I would have saved myself some grief. My advice, do not accept the 149-12LS starter motor that comes with the stock standard motor from Vans, elect to have the 149-NL and you should not have any trouble with getting the motor through the first compression stroke.
One more final suggestion is to install an earth lead direct from the battery to the engine, this makes a lot of sense and it did appear to help the old starter motor get through the first compression while I waited for my new 149-NL starter motor. Don't know why Vans does not recommend this earth lead in their firewall forward instructions and kit.

Alan
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  #30  
Old 09-12-2018, 07:05 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 4,526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussieflyer View Post
Thank you everyone for your helpful advice. I wish to report that I took out the permanent magnet starter motor and installed the 149-NL as recommended.
What a difference. I know Vans said it was a bit disappointing when people use their credit cards to fix things. However this was the correct fix. I now find it a bit disappointing that Vans did not warn us that they were delivering the IO390 with a cheaper starter motor that does not operate as efficiently as a 149-NL. Had I known that at time of ordering I would have saved myself some grief. My advice, do not accept the 149-12LS starter motor that comes with the stock standard motor from Vans, elect to have the 149-NL and you should not have any trouble with getting the motor through the first compression stroke.
One more final suggestion is to install an earth lead direct from the battery to the engine, this makes a lot of sense and it did appear to help the old starter motor get through the first compression while I waited for my new 149-NL starter motor. Don't know why Vans does not recommend this earth lead in their firewall forward instructions and kit.

Alan
It is great you got this solved. I have to say in your location and situation this was the best solution. I do think there might be an issue with that starter though, and to your comment about Vans, you might want to send a note to the engineering manager/VP, Rian. The little I heard from him at the banquet was impressive and he is about continuous improvement. He might just authorize post to send that starter back and see if it still meets the specs. I bet that it does not, and either way Vans can either recommend the NL or work with the supplier to ensure quality of parts is improved.

As an example, a little thing, but the 7 has a deficiency in being able to keep the rudder counter weight tight by the print build. People have used a connector with plate-nuts to allow tightening later in maintenance by eliminating the blind nut. That change has been adopted by Vans now and now comes with the 7 rudder kits. This is consistent with what I heard him say at the banquet.

Hope to hear he wants that starter back.
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