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  #11  
Old 10-31-2018, 10:32 AM
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ppilotmike ppilotmike is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greghale View Post
I'm curious how much the cooler weighs when loaded. Plus the idea of concentrating the weight in one area of the cabin.

The airflow system in my RV10 weighs in around 45 lbs. The weight of the A/C is distributed evenly on the fuselage - Compressor in front, Condensor on the bottom middle and the evaporator is in the back. Once you charge the system, there is no other maintenance needed.

A friend of mine had the ice cooler in his 182 and was only able to get about 45 minutes of cool air. He then had to lift the ice cooler out of the airplane and refill it.

When I flew my RV8 at altitude in the nice cool air, you could actually feel the temperature rise up as you descended. If there is moisture outside (drizzle, fog) with out the A/C, my windows would fog up on the inside.

I agree, even on a cool day the cabin can get very uncomfortable and blowing warm/hot air from the outside vents in a greenhouse cabin.

Just something for you to think about.
My IcyBreeze dry weight is 16 lbs and it holds about 30 lbs of "bagged" ice. If I fill it with hard glycol ice packs and enough water to submerge them, it all weighs about 50 lbs. It will fit in the baggage compartment of the 10, but will also limit the amount of baggage you can put in there with it (limit is 100 lbs in the baggage compartment). If I run it on High, I get an hour of cooling or maybe a little more, depending on the temps. For dumping the water, my plan is to carry a small length of tubing that I will attach to the recirculation side of the system, so that instead of recirculating the water, it pumps it overboard, through the baggage compartment door.
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  #12  
Old 10-31-2018, 01:23 PM
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Paddy Paddy is offline
 
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Default A/C vs useful load

I also use an icebox cooler with gel packs for A/C. It weighs about the same as a real A/C system but it doesn't work as well. It's enough to take the edge off on a hot day, does quite well at dehumidification and lasts only long enough to turn it on for taxi, climb and descent. That said, a real A/C system weighs 40-50lbs all the time, whether it's needed or not, winter or summer.

The icebox takes up a lot of room in the baggage area, so I don't use it on family trips fully loaded. By the same measure, a real A/C eats into useful load and places a considerable portion of that weight in the rear, moving the effective C/G back, further compounding the effect - and you can't take it out.

I built my -10 to carry 4 people, all their bags and full fuel on a regular basis. I couldn't do this with built-in A/C. Those who want to be super comfy without concern for the weight penalty would probably be happier with a real A/C system vs a portable cooler.

The picture below was taken after our family trip to see the solar eclipse last year. You can't fill all the seats and still bring this much stuff with you if you have A/C in your plane...

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  #13  
Old 10-31-2018, 04:57 PM
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ppilotmike ppilotmike is offline
 
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Default Paddy..

..it sounds as though you and I think alike. Did you guys install an overhead console, or leave it out to keep it light and simple?
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VAF Dues Current: as of 01/15/18
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http://www.mykitlog.com/mikrettig
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  #14  
Old 10-31-2018, 08:29 PM
Northernliving Northernliving is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwannarv View Post
I like your idea, and I am also deciding against A/C because of the weight and added complexity on my first build. Although I want it bad, I just can't justify the cost.

Are you concerned about condensation/moisture buildup inside the overhead console?
Here is a video on building one. It should take the moisture out of the air just like a conventional AC unit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWeyuB_dUKU
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  #15  
Old 11-01-2018, 09:18 AM
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Default Overhead Console

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppilotmike View Post
Did you guys install an overhead console, or leave it out to keep it light and simple?
We did install the overhead console from Aerosport. Although expensive, it's a nice piece and weighs very little. We painted the inside of the cabin top rather than install a head liner to save a little weight.

Overall, the approach was to build a comfortable family cruiser. We tried to balance comfort with utility and redundancy. We did install a full aerosport interior, heated seats, center console and rosen sun visors. However, we opted for portable oxygen (for now), portable DVD players for the kids and of course portable icebox cooler, so we could leave those behind when we need to maximize useful load.

Another aspect that received a lot of attention was systems redundancy. Not only am I flying my family around in this thing, mostly IFR, but it was built with a transatlantic trip in mind from day one. To satisfy that level of redundancy, it has a dual bus/dual battery/dual alternator electrical system, as well as dual AHARS. To offset this additional weight, we went with LiFePo batteries and ditched a 28lb chunk of lead from the tail section.

So, with all this in mind, the installation of a permanent real A/C system just didn't fit our particular mission. Not everyone's mission is the same of course, if my kids were grown and I didn't want to cross the ocean, I think a real A/C system would be very nice to have.
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  #16  
Old 11-04-2018, 06:03 PM
AV8ER AV8ER is offline
 
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Alright, so I have been looking at doing this: Run permanent plumbing (power, hot air exhaust, condensation drain) for an Arctic Air "real a/c" system so we can use real a/c when the weather and mission require it, or remove the 42 pound a/c unit from the plane when it is not needed or wanted. This allows for real a/c without the marriage to the weight penalty yet still stays away from ice chest type systems. Not sure what amperage the alternator makes a low power settings (during taxi when you really want the cold air blowing). Might be necessary to use additional battery capacity to piggyback the Arctic Air so if the low RPM power generation was not up to the task the system would still run. You may be able to use your duct to the overhead console and use the real a/c system in place of the ice chest.

http://www.arcticaircooler.com/produ...-200-1-12d.htm
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  #17  
Old 11-04-2018, 06:48 PM
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digidocs digidocs is offline
 
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Just a quick note:

If you want electric air conditioning like the Arctic Air "Real AC", you'll probably really want to consider installing a 24V electrical system. The larger Real AC is 24V only and I think you'd find the smaller one disappointing at only 7,000 BTU.

Last edited by digidocs : 11-04-2018 at 06:51 PM.
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  #18  
Old 11-05-2018, 11:08 AM
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ppilotmike ppilotmike is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digidocs View Post
Just a quick note:

If you want electric air conditioning like the Arctic Air "Real AC", you'll probably really want to consider installing a 24V electrical system. The larger Real AC is 24V only and I think you'd find the smaller one disappointing at only 7,000 BTU.
Question: Would it be possible to have the Arctic Air 24V "Real AC" run solely off of battery power, with an alternator charging said battery. In other words, the battery would be being "depleted" while the AC is on High, on the ground, but then would be recharged after the A/C/ gets turned off/down, once off the ground? If so, I would think you could set up a 24V circuit using two 12V batteries (primary and backup). Any electrical whizzes out there that could suggest a solution so as not to need a large 100Amp alternator to drive an electric A/C unit?
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VAF Dues Current: as of 01/15/18
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http://www.mykitlog.com/mikrettig
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