VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #11  
Old 05-08-2017, 02:14 PM
kstone kstone is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 33
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJay View Post
Everybody has a right to their opinion. The fact of the matter is simple and remains the same. It is a personal preference. You can argue the pluses and minuses of slider vs tipper all day long. They both have their upsides and downsides.

Yep, like my Daddy used to say, "That's why they make chocolate AND vanilla ice cream". Everybody has their preferences and I'm not telling tipper owners they're wrong, just that the tipper is wrong for me. The more feedback we give builder/buyers the more informed decision they can make.

A couple of posters asked what specific issues I've had with the tipper. In chronological order:

1. The t-handle safety latch locked itself when the canopy was closed. I kid you not, the handle turned 90 degrees while closed to perfectly lock me out. When seating in the plane to get that latch to turn you must pull down and turn with a fair amount of force, but somehow it latched on its own. Thanks to input from folks on this site I was finally able to get it open a couple of weeks later without drilling the Plexiglas.

2. The fiberglass trim strip that covers the screws on the back of the canopy broke off a piece then started to split and eventually came off in flight. It hit the horizontal stabilizer and elevator leaving scratches. Glad that's all it did.

3. After a flight, I was on the wing, reached in to get my flight bag out of the back and was handing it to someone on the ground behind me when a gust of wind slammed the canopy down breaking off a 2" L x 3/4" W piece of Plexiglas. The plane is still flyable, but at some point I'll have to go to the big expense of replacing the canopy.

Folks say they like the ability to open the canopy and let it rest on the t-handle giving a 2" vent while on the ground. That's fine, but you better not forget that if you catch a strong gust from behind, that canopy is coming up fast and can do a lot of damage (there's a good video on this site of the canopy going into the prop). I've had this happen but fortunately caught it before it flew all the way open. If it's windy now, I just close and latch the canopy and deal with the heat.

Hope this helps!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-08-2017, 03:04 PM
Bill Boyd's Avatar
Bill Boyd Bill Boyd is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Landing field "12VA"
Posts: 934
Default Love my tip-up

for all the reasons cited, and would only ever change it for one reason: I'm convinced a shallow water ditching has a high chance of ending in an inverted drowning outcome since the canopy is not jettisonable in flight nor openable when sitting on the bottom inverted. Not if built to plans. Pretty much given the plane will flip. Do you carry a James Bond pocket scuba device? I don't.

Before the inevitable drift happens, let's stipulate that it's been beaten to death in the ditching threads.
__________________
Bill Boyd

Hop-Along Aerodrome (12VA)
RV-6A - N30YD - flying since '98
RV-10 - N130YD reserved - under construction

donating monthly to the VAF - thanks, Doug
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-08-2017, 03:12 PM
Pmerems's Avatar
Pmerems Pmerems is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 795
Default Thanks for more info

As a Tip-builder and flyer I think it is important to help those considering a Tip-up canopy to understand from others what maybe the cause of the issues you have had and why some of us have not had these issues.


1. The t-handle safety latch locked itself when the canopy was closed. I kid you not, the handle turned 90 degrees while closed to perfectly lock me out. When seating in the plane to get that latch to turn you must pull down and turn with a fair amount of force, but somehow it latched on its own. Thanks to input from folks on this site I was finally able to get it open a couple of weeks later without drilling the Plexiglas.
The mounting block for the safety latch on my RV was pre-drilled by the factory to accept the t-handle shaft. Typically when drilling the UHMW material the hole shrinks from the actural drill size. Therefore the t-handle shaft fits tightly in the hole. Mine will never turn on its own. I believe the original builder may have enlarged the hole allowing the handle to move freely. So for those new Tip-up builders don't enlarge the hole in the block.

2. The fiberglass trim strip that covers the screws on the back of the canopy broke off a piece then started to split and eventually came off in flight. It hit the horizontal stabilizer and elevator leaving scratches. Glad that's all it did.
This trim strip is not in the plans but several have fabricated one. Bonding fiberglass to plexiglass can be an issue. Sliders have at strip similar to this strip for the canopy fairing along the back. Sliders can have de-bonding just as you did.

3. After a flight, I was on the wing, reached in to get my flight bag out of the back and was handing it to someone on the ground behind me when a gust of wind slammed the canopy down breaking off a 2" L x 3/4" W piece of Plexiglas. The plane is still flyable, but at some point I'll have to go to the big expense of replacing the canopy.
Understanding that the canopy can become a big sail is the cost of owning a Tip-up. Care should always be taken when the canopy is open. Hope you weren't hurt
__________________
Dream it, Build it, Fly it

Paul Merems (EAA Tech Counselor, EAA Sheetmetal Workshop Instructor/Volunteer 12 yrs)
ExperimentalAero-HANGAR BANNERS
www.experimentalaero.com
RV-7A (Flying since 2010)/RV-4 (sold 1990)
Tucson, Arizona 85749
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-08-2017, 03:33 PM
az_gila's Avatar
az_gila az_gila is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 8,801
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pmerems View Post
...

2. The fiberglass trim strip that covers the screws on the back of the canopy broke off a piece then started to split and eventually came off in flight. It hit the horizontal stabilizer and elevator leaving scratches. Glad that's all it did.
This trim strip is not in the plans but several have fabricated one. Bonding fiberglass to plexiglass can be an issue. Sliders have at strip similar to this strip for the canopy fairing along the back. Sliders can have de-bonding just as you did.

...
And to add to Paul's comment.

There is no need to rely on bonding to attach the Targa strip. It can simply be held on with countersunk screws that go through the three layers of fiberglass, Plexiglas and frame.
__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-08-2017, 04:15 PM
Sam Buchanan's Avatar
Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan is offline
hall monitor
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 3,504
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kstone View Post
Folks say they like the ability to open the canopy and let it rest on the t-handle giving a 2" vent while on the ground. That's fine, but you better not forget that if you catch a strong gust from behind, that canopy is coming up fast and can do a lot of damage (there's a good video on this site of the canopy going into the prop). I've had this happen but fortunately caught it before it flew all the way open. If it's windy now, I just close and latch the canopy and deal with the heat.

Hope this helps!
In the interest of fairness, the video of a canopy being flung open in a very strong wind and hitting the prop is of an RV-12. The -12 has a different canopy design than the other tip-up RVs. The tip-up of a RV-6, -7, -9 cannot open far enough to hit the prop (well, maybe if a gale-force wind ripped the strut assemblies out of the fuselage, but if the wind is that strong there are other problems to worry about....and the pilot definitely needs to be cautious when the plane is subject to prop or jet wash.).

The issues the original poster noted can be addressed by proper construction of the tip-up canopy and reasonable care in use. I understand his frustration but feel his statements do not reflect the tens of thousands of hours of satisfactory tip-up canopy service. But I'm glad we have a choice so all RVers can love their ride.

But I'm admittedly biased by nearly twenty years of enjoyable tip-up flying.
__________________
Sam Buchanan
1999 RV-6
1918 Fokker D.VII replica

Last edited by Sam Buchanan : 05-08-2017 at 04:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-10-2017, 04:15 PM
smokyray's Avatar
smokyray smokyray is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TX32
Posts: 1,629
Default To each his own...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kstone View Post
I won't say that I regret the decision, but I can say I hate (yes, hate) the tip-up. It has been nothing but a pain in my posterior from the beginning, nothing but trouble. I don't have the time to go into all the problems it's caused (and expenses!), but the list is long. Feel free to PM me if you would like more details.
Sir,
Recently a customer told me of his issue with his Tip-Up leaking water on the avionics while flying in rain or when he opened the canopy after a rain. I told him to stop flying through rain! Tip-ups leak at the front, sliders leak at the back, nuff said. It's all relative.
My RVX is a slider and I do like taxiing in the TX heat with my arm out the side and a breeze blowing. However comma, the visibility in the Tip-Up inflight is much like the F-16 or RV-4/Rocket: unobscured.
A definite plus.

Speaking of my RV4/HR2, it has the best set-up of all, tip over!

V/R
Smokey

Last edited by smokyray : 08-10-2017 at 04:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-10-2017, 05:01 PM
DaleB's Avatar
DaleB DaleB is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Omaha, NE (KMLE)
Posts: 1,720
Default

I was building an RV-7 with a slider (because, well, it's a slider, it looks cool!) when I found it necessary to switch to the RV-12. No choice there, it's a tip-up.

I really don't mind it. It's not as much of a PITA as I thought it would be. Don't leave it open, ever, if you're not standing right there. Aside from that, especially with the new canopy catch from Van's, the incredible visibility is well worth the cool factor trade-off. I can't hang my arm out the window while I taxi, but I can pop the canopy up a few inches and still use that big cooling fan up front.

Put another way: If I were to start another 7 or a 9, I'd go with a tip-up. Instead, my next project is open cockpit, just not quite as fast.
__________________
Dale
Omaha, NE
RV-12 # 222 N980KM "Screamin' Canary" (bought flying)
Fisher Celebrity (under construction)
Previous RV-7 project (sold)
-=VAF=- 2017 dues paid
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-10-2017, 10:21 PM
Dbro172's Avatar
Dbro172 Dbro172 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Moorhead, MN
Posts: 950
Default

Two things i really like about my slider is the handles on the front bow for entering/exiting and holding on to the front center support in turbulence. Whenever it gets rough and bumpy my right hand ends up on the center support, has sort of a calming effect.
__________________
Derek Hoeschen
EAA Tech Counselor
RV-9A #92103 - N803DK
G3X, Superior XO-320, Dual Pmags, Whirlwind GA
www.mykitlog.com/dbro172/

RV-8 #83565 - N184DK - building
1968 Mooney M20C - Sold
1956 C-182 - Sold
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-12-2017, 12:36 PM
dlomheim dlomheim is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: (2OK2) OK City, OK
Posts: 339
Default RV's flip when ditching?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Boyd View Post
...Pretty much given the plane will flip. Do you carry a James Bond pocket scuba device?...
Bill; Do you know of many RV's that have "flipped" upon ditching? in the early 2000's I remember reading about an RV-8 off the Hawaiian Islands that lost it's engine and had to ditch. It didn't flip in that specific case, but the pilot later said he wished he hadn't opened his sliding canopy all the way (prior to touchdown) since it slammed forward with great velocity, and could have become stuck if unlucky. His conclusion was to unlock it, but not open it prior to touchdown in a ditching situation.

Doug

RV-9A FWF
RV-3A restored / sold
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-12-2017, 07:21 PM
qtrmiledan qtrmiledan is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Baton Rouge,La.
Posts: 141
Default Jettison Slider Mod

On the sliders- if you cut a notch in the upper rail towards the back- large enough for the roller to pass through, the canopy can be removed with no tools ( I guess in flight also, although I've never tried it) . So it could be jettisoned before impact. Not sure what it would do to the tail feathers- so wait until the second to last moment!
__________________
Danny B
Baker,La.
RV9A #91137 Flying!!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:04 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.