Have you ever been so overwhelmed with your airplane project to the point where you considered giving up and selling? Or is building an airplane so invigorating you keep soldiering on? I am trying to figure out if it starts out hard and gets easier as you go, or if it goes quickly in the beginning, and then progress slows? In essence, what was the Cadence of your build?
Van's Air Force
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Have you ever been overwhelmed?
- Thread starter Flienlow
- Start date
FresnoR
Well Known Member
FresnoR
Well Known Member
Well, for a more detailed answer, You will probably feel every emotion within your build. Somedays are better than others, some days you want to take a hammer to your build (or head). It's kind of like golf.
Some parts are very slow, and you feel like you will never finish, you'll probably even look on VAF and Barnstormers to see what you might get back for your half-built kit. But then again, somedays you will complete a big section in a short time, and you'll feel on top of the world, especially the first time you sit inside that fuselage and make airplane noises.
There is a big learning curve in the beginning, especially if youve never worked with al before. Take one of the classes, it will help a ton.
The trick is to just stick with it, and not let yourself get overwhelmed. The fun far outweighs any frustration. If it was too easy, it would be boring.
Some parts are very slow, and you feel like you will never finish, you'll probably even look on VAF and Barnstormers to see what you might get back for your half-built kit. But then again, somedays you will complete a big section in a short time, and you'll feel on top of the world, especially the first time you sit inside that fuselage and make airplane noises.
There is a big learning curve in the beginning, especially if youve never worked with al before. Take one of the classes, it will help a ton.
The trick is to just stick with it, and not let yourself get overwhelmed. The fun far outweighs any frustration. If it was too easy, it would be boring.
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bruceh
Well Known Member
Um, No. 
My experience throughout this build process is that the hardest part is just maintaining momentum. Try to do something every day. Lots of new stuff to learn, master and overcome. First time riveting, first time priming, first time doing fiberglass, and first time for everything (at least for me). Fuel tanks and proseal, bending the longerons, cutting the canopy. All over hyped and after it is done you wonder what the fuss is all about. Remember there is nothing that can't be fixed. Fear of messing up can be a killer to your motivation. Break it down into small tasks and the remaining work gets smaller and smaller. I'm contemplating buying an engine (another first time experience) and I'm confident I can get that task done. The hardest part for me has been doing the big purchases. Once I commit, and spend the $$$ I wonder why it took so long!
My experience throughout this build process is that the hardest part is just maintaining momentum. Try to do something every day. Lots of new stuff to learn, master and overcome. First time riveting, first time priming, first time doing fiberglass, and first time for everything (at least for me). Fuel tanks and proseal, bending the longerons, cutting the canopy. All over hyped and after it is done you wonder what the fuss is all about. Remember there is nothing that can't be fixed. Fear of messing up can be a killer to your motivation. Break it down into small tasks and the remaining work gets smaller and smaller. I'm contemplating buying an engine (another first time experience) and I'm confident I can get that task done. The hardest part for me has been doing the big purchases. Once I commit, and spend the $$$ I wonder why it took so long!
The only time I get overwhelmed is when I look too far ahead at what needs to be done. Most things make more sense when the parts are in your hand and you have the aha! moment, that's what the manual was talking about.
That said. I find my time working on the project (referred to as TOW. The other woman) as great theraputic time when all the problems in the world fade away for a few hours. I find I miss my building time when I'm away from it for too long.
That said. I find my time working on the project (referred to as TOW. The other woman) as great theraputic time when all the problems in the world fade away for a few hours. I find I miss my building time when I'm away from it for too long.
highflight42x
Well Known Member
have you ever been overwhelmed?
When I first got the plans sheets, I looked at them carefully for a couple weeks and concluded, "This is impossible, there is no way I can build an airplane". The blueprints got used for fire-starter that winter.
The bug wouldn't go away, however. The following spring I got another set of RV plans. Looked at them all that summer. Thought about it. A lot. How would I do this? How would I do that? How much? How long? Bothered the heck out of Roger, a BD-4 builder, who was in the radar group upstairs from me at work. Every lunchtime for weeks: What's a cleco? What's an NAS bolt? Which tools? Where and how much? (I owe that guy a lot, he taught me the basics. Gotta go see him again soon, he lives on an airport...)
Bought the kit that autumn. Never shot a rivet in my life. Never worked with sheet metal (ok, I spot-welded a tool-tray in 9th grade). Never used a reamer. Read all the books, but didn't know diddly. So ... what's the first thing I tried to build? The wing spars, of course (this was pre-historic Van's, where you built your own spars). I'm an idiot - shot all the rivets through the spar caps bent over sideways like golf clubs. Had just enough smarts to take 'em to an A&P before going further. Scrap.
Ok, try something easier - the tail kit. Still an idiot - scrimped on the jig, a flimsy thing. It wobbled. Result was predictable: a month later ... more scrap.
Awright, what's wrong with me?? Go back to page one: what is the philosophy of airplane building??
1) Build parts to fit other parts, assemblies to fit other assemblies.
2) Don't build anything until you have to.
3) Always practice on scrap with new materials or techniques.
4) When in doubt, ask someone who knows.
5) Walk away from it when you're tired.
6) Be committed.
The last one is important. If you get to the end of the build and discover you've REALLY messed up something critical, will you fix it? Will you start over again, build new wings if you have to? Weld-up a new engine mount? Do whatever it takes??
If the answer is yes, you're committed.
I probably replaced half the stuff I built in the first two years - shelves of ruined parts I did over again.
I built the rudder perfectly ... and then dropped it. Big Freaking Dent. Scrap - do another one.
Cut the aileron skins wrong - get new ones.
Bent the flap leading edges wrong - do over.
Made a dozen parts ahead of sequence, to dimensions only. Skimpy edge distances with the holes in the mating parts. More scrap (always make parts to fit other parts, dummy!!)
Then a point in time came when the progress was steady. I was making fewer mistakes, ... then no mistakes. Assemblies got built and joined with other assemblies. Interfaces I had planned years before (wing/fuselage, canopy-frame/cockpit) went together without a hitch. Like a sort of critical-mass. Von Braun said you have to make 65,000 mistake before the rocket will fly. Same thing for new builders - dozens, maybe a hundred goofs before things start going smooth. You have to make those mistakes, there's no other way to learn. You will! And if you're committed, you'll get over it, keep going.
Then, first engine start - that was even more startling than the first flight. Airplane sits there silent for years, then bursts into that unmistakable, growling unmuffled Lycoming sound.
The smell of hot oil, hydraulic fluid, and cockpit leather.
Inspection & signoff. Cockpit papers.
First flight.
Flight tests, a few glitches.
Forty hours.
A point in time will come when you realize you're no longer *building* an airplane, you're *maintaining* an airplane. Out on an airport. Near a runway. With a tower and other planes and engine sounds all around.
Another point in time will come when you drive out to the airport on a Saturday morning. Sky is burning blue. Preflight. Roll the airplane out of the hanger, climb in. The seat is just the way you want it. The panel and controls have that look you dreamed about for years. The paint-job looks just right, exactly like the drawings you made. It will hit you at some point: This thing changed me. It made living worthwhile. If I fly it right, it'll take me on amazing adventures, and if I don't, I could get killed. Even if I do everything right, some freak thing could end it all: a mid-air collision, a smashing wind, a bird strike.
The question will arise: is it still worth it?
Still committed?
- Steven
700+ RV3 hours
(two more last weekend!)
When I first got the plans sheets, I looked at them carefully for a couple weeks and concluded, "This is impossible, there is no way I can build an airplane". The blueprints got used for fire-starter that winter.
The bug wouldn't go away, however. The following spring I got another set of RV plans. Looked at them all that summer. Thought about it. A lot. How would I do this? How would I do that? How much? How long? Bothered the heck out of Roger, a BD-4 builder, who was in the radar group upstairs from me at work. Every lunchtime for weeks: What's a cleco? What's an NAS bolt? Which tools? Where and how much? (I owe that guy a lot, he taught me the basics. Gotta go see him again soon, he lives on an airport...)
Bought the kit that autumn. Never shot a rivet in my life. Never worked with sheet metal (ok, I spot-welded a tool-tray in 9th grade). Never used a reamer. Read all the books, but didn't know diddly. So ... what's the first thing I tried to build? The wing spars, of course (this was pre-historic Van's, where you built your own spars). I'm an idiot - shot all the rivets through the spar caps bent over sideways like golf clubs. Had just enough smarts to take 'em to an A&P before going further. Scrap.
Ok, try something easier - the tail kit. Still an idiot - scrimped on the jig, a flimsy thing. It wobbled. Result was predictable: a month later ... more scrap.
Awright, what's wrong with me?? Go back to page one: what is the philosophy of airplane building??
1) Build parts to fit other parts, assemblies to fit other assemblies.
2) Don't build anything until you have to.
3) Always practice on scrap with new materials or techniques.
4) When in doubt, ask someone who knows.
5) Walk away from it when you're tired.
6) Be committed.
The last one is important. If you get to the end of the build and discover you've REALLY messed up something critical, will you fix it? Will you start over again, build new wings if you have to? Weld-up a new engine mount? Do whatever it takes??
If the answer is yes, you're committed.
I probably replaced half the stuff I built in the first two years - shelves of ruined parts I did over again.
I built the rudder perfectly ... and then dropped it. Big Freaking Dent. Scrap - do another one.
Cut the aileron skins wrong - get new ones.
Bent the flap leading edges wrong - do over.
Made a dozen parts ahead of sequence, to dimensions only. Skimpy edge distances with the holes in the mating parts. More scrap (always make parts to fit other parts, dummy!!)
Then a point in time came when the progress was steady. I was making fewer mistakes, ... then no mistakes. Assemblies got built and joined with other assemblies. Interfaces I had planned years before (wing/fuselage, canopy-frame/cockpit) went together without a hitch. Like a sort of critical-mass. Von Braun said you have to make 65,000 mistake before the rocket will fly. Same thing for new builders - dozens, maybe a hundred goofs before things start going smooth. You have to make those mistakes, there's no other way to learn. You will! And if you're committed, you'll get over it, keep going.
Then, first engine start - that was even more startling than the first flight. Airplane sits there silent for years, then bursts into that unmistakable, growling unmuffled Lycoming sound.
The smell of hot oil, hydraulic fluid, and cockpit leather.
Inspection & signoff. Cockpit papers.
First flight.
Flight tests, a few glitches.
Forty hours.
A point in time will come when you realize you're no longer *building* an airplane, you're *maintaining* an airplane. Out on an airport. Near a runway. With a tower and other planes and engine sounds all around.
Another point in time will come when you drive out to the airport on a Saturday morning. Sky is burning blue. Preflight. Roll the airplane out of the hanger, climb in. The seat is just the way you want it. The panel and controls have that look you dreamed about for years. The paint-job looks just right, exactly like the drawings you made. It will hit you at some point: This thing changed me. It made living worthwhile. If I fly it right, it'll take me on amazing adventures, and if I don't, I could get killed. Even if I do everything right, some freak thing could end it all: a mid-air collision, a smashing wind, a bird strike.
The question will arise: is it still worth it?
Still committed?
- Steven
700+ RV3 hours
(two more last weekend!)
pilotian
Well Known Member
Be carefull, I think Oprah trademarked that phrase! She'll come for yah
.....As for building, I am a new builder and I have plenty of times where I look back and wonder will I ever get this done, can I really do this, why is this so hard. But for most of us I would venture to guess, that we build because it isnt easy... Without a bit of a challenge there isnt as much reward and gratification in the end.
Also, once you have that first sub-piece done and it begins to look like an airplane that is all you need to keep pounding aways at it!
Best of luck!
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LettersFromFlyoverCountry
Well Known Member
I was laying up some fiberglass inside the gear leg fairing last night. When I put it on the gear leg and started moving it around, the whole layup started moving. I'll find out today, I suppose, where that layup ended up because I had to walk away from it while muttering, "I wish someone would buy this *&#)(& project!"
Have I ever been overwhelmed? When haven't I?
I've got two or three things to complete before I ask for the inspection -- wheelpants/fairings, the new Matco nosewheel axle, and priming the cowling. That's it. That's been the same three things on the list for the last two months. Like the man said, sometimes you wonder whether it'll ever get finished.
Have I ever been overwhelmed? When haven't I?
I've got two or three things to complete before I ask for the inspection -- wheelpants/fairings, the new Matco nosewheel axle, and priming the cowling. That's it. That's been the same three things on the list for the last two months. Like the man said, sometimes you wonder whether it'll ever get finished.
rv8guy
Well Known Member
Great post! and well said. What a great looking plane.
I know my early 8 kit was more advanced but yes it was a challenge.
My favorite statement however was "first engine start - that was even more startling than the first flight" SO TRUE for me at least-unbelievable, and now a long time ago--7 years.
My "spare parts still hang" around my basement, but I did not have a lot. I did fabricate a battery tray support four times till I got it right. That was when I needed a break-it happens.
thanks for the memories
I know my early 8 kit was more advanced but yes it was a challenge.
My favorite statement however was "first engine start - that was even more startling than the first flight" SO TRUE for me at least-unbelievable, and now a long time ago--7 years.
My "spare parts still hang" around my basement, but I did not have a lot. I did fabricate a battery tray support four times till I got it right. That was when I needed a break-it happens.
thanks for the memories
yes but stubborness helps
Hard to follow Stevens reply but I wrote an article on the challenges of the build process for my EAA chapter titled "How hard can this be?". Obviously harder than you think
The honest answer is that there will be stages when you feel overwhelmed and feel like giving up for lots of reasons some of which do not have anything to do with the actual building but life challenges in general.
The best advice I ever received was to do something each week however small and switch tasks when getting frustrated to make some progress.
Being a bit stubborn to finish what you start also helps as will this web site, the many builder sites that are available and other builders in your local area.
Hard to follow Stevens reply but I wrote an article on the challenges of the build process for my EAA chapter titled "How hard can this be?". Obviously harder than you think
The honest answer is that there will be stages when you feel overwhelmed and feel like giving up for lots of reasons some of which do not have anything to do with the actual building but life challenges in general.
The best advice I ever received was to do something each week however small and switch tasks when getting frustrated to make some progress.
Being a bit stubborn to finish what you start also helps as will this web site, the many builder sites that are available and other builders in your local area.
twisted-wrench
Active Member
All good responses
These have been all very good responses but there is another important factor.
There are people who are finishers and those who are not. Not being a finisher does not mean you are a bad or flawed person. There may be stuff going on in your life that prevent a person from spending enough focused time to finish a big project like this.
So when you ask yourself, how big is the largest project of a mechanical / electrical nature that you have ever finished? Does the skill, focus, dedication that was required to finish your previous largest project lead you to believe you can finish an aircraft build?
If the answer is yes, then break the build down into little tasks so you can keep your desire for success satisfied.
If the answer is not really, sell your kit now and buy the airplane you want.
Bottom line is that you should really, REALLY, enjoy the build process to the point that when finished, you will be jonesing for the next project.
These have been all very good responses but there is another important factor.
There are people who are finishers and those who are not. Not being a finisher does not mean you are a bad or flawed person. There may be stuff going on in your life that prevent a person from spending enough focused time to finish a big project like this.
So when you ask yourself, how big is the largest project of a mechanical / electrical nature that you have ever finished? Does the skill, focus, dedication that was required to finish your previous largest project lead you to believe you can finish an aircraft build?
If the answer is yes, then break the build down into little tasks so you can keep your desire for success satisfied.
If the answer is not really, sell your kit now and buy the airplane you want.
Bottom line is that you should really, REALLY, enjoy the build process to the point that when finished, you will be jonesing for the next project.
I'm 4 years into my project, and I'm at the point of wiring up the fuselage and about to start on the panel. I now truly understand the joke about "90% done, 90% to go". Yes, it's a lot, and yes there are times when you step back and look at the project as a whole and say to yourself "What the heck am I doing?"
You've just got to keep going. One piece at a time. None of it flies until all of it flies. I got through the early stages by looking at it as an exercise in parts count reduction. I started with XXXX number of individual parts, each day in the shop I combine some of them into a smaller number of parts. One day I will be down to just one part - and on that day I will fly.
You've just got to keep going. One piece at a time. None of it flies until all of it flies. I got through the early stages by looking at it as an exercise in parts count reduction. I started with XXXX number of individual parts, each day in the shop I combine some of them into a smaller number of parts. One day I will be down to just one part - and on that day I will fly.
LettersFromFlyoverCountry
Well Known Member
One day *I* will be down to one part and on that day I will say, "whoops. I wonder where THAT was supposed to go."
Admiration
To all of you that decided to build, and actually started, built, and fly your RV's, I admire all of you. Commitment and tenacity mean alot.
I've been hanging around about 3 years now----(Thanks alot Lee- this is going to cost me $$!), watching, listening, making friends, a few customers along the way. Thanks to all of you for giving some of us on the sidelines something to cheer for. Watching rivits being bucked, pro sealing fuel tanks (YUK), wiring, plumbing engines and accessories (YEAH), the first time your RV actually rolls out, first avionics power up, first engine start, and of course, sign off, and first flight are all milestones that even us bystanders can appreciate.
I read Steve's post, and thought about how many guys started, and for whatever reason had to move on from their project. Barnstormers, and Doug's own classifieds here are filled with unfinished projects. In these troubled times, I think its especially gratifiying to see a builder finish a project that he or she has been working on for Years. I commend all of you for that commitment.
VAF has alot of help. Just when things seem insurmountable, stop and read about someone else that overcame circumstances, and got the big GRIN!
Now, I guess Its time I got off the bench.-----
You guys are great!
Tom
To all of you that decided to build, and actually started, built, and fly your RV's, I admire all of you. Commitment and tenacity mean alot.
I've been hanging around about 3 years now----(Thanks alot Lee- this is going to cost me $$!), watching, listening, making friends, a few customers along the way. Thanks to all of you for giving some of us on the sidelines something to cheer for. Watching rivits being bucked, pro sealing fuel tanks (YUK), wiring, plumbing engines and accessories (YEAH), the first time your RV actually rolls out, first avionics power up, first engine start, and of course, sign off, and first flight are all milestones that even us bystanders can appreciate.
I read Steve's post, and thought about how many guys started, and for whatever reason had to move on from their project. Barnstormers, and Doug's own classifieds here are filled with unfinished projects. In these troubled times, I think its especially gratifiying to see a builder finish a project that he or she has been working on for Years. I commend all of you for that commitment.
VAF has alot of help. Just when things seem insurmountable, stop and read about someone else that overcame circumstances, and got the big GRIN!
Now, I guess Its time I got off the bench.-----
You guys are great!
Tom
No.
I often pop a beer and just sit in the shop admiring a finished component. The satisfaction is why I build. No matter what happens in the outside world, only I determine how well things turn out in my shop.
Everything gets easier as you acquire skills, knowledge, and confidence. The progress rate for any one particular aircraft won't change much, for two reasons. First, the tasks change, and second, progress is mostly about attitude. If you think it's hard, it will be. It's all in your mind.
Danny King
Well Known Member
Building the Doll
There are some great post here. Great reading, and memories recalled!
When ask, I tell potential builders that to build an airplane it takes money and tenacity! None of us are born with knowledge. We all acquire it along the way. I had never riveted metal together before. I didn't know what fluting pliers were. Like most, I was filled with nagging fears and doubts as to my ability to do this. I had the means and the desire, so I drilled that first hole in the horizontal stabilizer on September 22, 1997. I look at that part today, and wish I could do it over again. I learned on it, and all the parts that followed showed better workmanship.
To finish a project of this size it is important to do something on it every day, or at least at every opportunity. I tell guys to just work on it for five minutes each day. Five minutes! Anyone can put in five minutes a day! Right?
I found that the hardest part of building was getting off my A$$ and going to the shop to "Start Again". But......once I got started.......I just couldn't seem to stop. It was like picking up a good book on the night stand. Once I started reading, I got involved in the story, and I couldn't stop reading, until I at least reached the end of the chapter. Many times I went to the shop to put in my five minutes after dinner, and then looked up at the clock to find it was 12:30, or 1:00 am.
Read the first paragraph in the building manual. It welcomes you to the world of homebuilt aircraft and warns you that you are about to undertake the most frustrating, time-consuming, enjoyable, fulfilling, and rewarding thing that you have ever experienced. True...True...True.
Building the Doll has been a life changing experience that I had NO Clue was going to happen to me back on the day in September of 1997! I wouldn't change a thing!
There are some great post here. Great reading, and memories recalled!
When ask, I tell potential builders that to build an airplane it takes money and tenacity! None of us are born with knowledge. We all acquire it along the way. I had never riveted metal together before. I didn't know what fluting pliers were. Like most, I was filled with nagging fears and doubts as to my ability to do this. I had the means and the desire, so I drilled that first hole in the horizontal stabilizer on September 22, 1997. I look at that part today, and wish I could do it over again. I learned on it, and all the parts that followed showed better workmanship.
To finish a project of this size it is important to do something on it every day, or at least at every opportunity. I tell guys to just work on it for five minutes each day. Five minutes! Anyone can put in five minutes a day! Right?
I found that the hardest part of building was getting off my A$$ and going to the shop to "Start Again". But......once I got started.......I just couldn't seem to stop. It was like picking up a good book on the night stand. Once I started reading, I got involved in the story, and I couldn't stop reading, until I at least reached the end of the chapter. Many times I went to the shop to put in my five minutes after dinner, and then looked up at the clock to find it was 12:30, or 1:00 am.
Read the first paragraph in the building manual. It welcomes you to the world of homebuilt aircraft and warns you that you are about to undertake the most frustrating, time-consuming, enjoyable, fulfilling, and rewarding thing that you have ever experienced. True...True...True.
Building the Doll has been a life changing experience that I had NO Clue was going to happen to me back on the day in September of 1997! I wouldn't change a thing!
Look Back
To give you a different perspective, I mostly had/have doubts about my ability to FINISH the project, even though I'm an A&P and Aero Engr. I already knew the basic skills for building when I started, but all my A&P experience was in maintaining airplanes, not building one. I'm truly humbled by anyone who built one.
One of my coping skills during periods of anxiety looking forward is looking back. Unlike stock market warnings about past performance not being a guarantee of future gains, taking stock of the accomplishments so far can be a tremendous motivation to keep going. I tell myself, "wow, look what I did; I surely must be able to do the next step, too!"
One of my excuses for taking so darned long on the -4 was the five years I spent building my two-story, 3400sf home, including all the cherry cabinetry and trim. It had the same periods of self-doubt and hoplessness, albeit with the motivational benefit coming from an endulgent, but anxious family. It is my greatest talisman of my capability to finish my -4!
As has been said, it's as much a mental game as mechanical skillset. Be unabashed seeking gratuitous reasons why there's no reason you can't keep going.
To give you a different perspective, I mostly had/have doubts about my ability to FINISH the project, even though I'm an A&P and Aero Engr. I already knew the basic skills for building when I started, but all my A&P experience was in maintaining airplanes, not building one. I'm truly humbled by anyone who built one.
One of my coping skills during periods of anxiety looking forward is looking back. Unlike stock market warnings about past performance not being a guarantee of future gains, taking stock of the accomplishments so far can be a tremendous motivation to keep going. I tell myself, "wow, look what I did; I surely must be able to do the next step, too!"
One of my excuses for taking so darned long on the -4 was the five years I spent building my two-story, 3400sf home, including all the cherry cabinetry and trim. It had the same periods of self-doubt and hoplessness, albeit with the motivational benefit coming from an endulgent, but anxious family. It is my greatest talisman of my capability to finish my -4!
As has been said, it's as much a mental game as mechanical skillset. Be unabashed seeking gratuitous reasons why there's no reason you can't keep going.
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Never to the point of giving up or selling... pushing it off a cliff would have been more satisfying. Generally when struggling with tasks like routing fuel lines, where I was determined to do it per plans, and not only failed, but banged my head repeatedly in the process. But then I get up, dust myself off, clean up the blood and get over it.
Life sometimes gets in the way- I lost both parents during the course of my 9 year off-again on-again build, and their care near the end was demanding. Sometimes I've lost interest. Temporarily. But only because other interesting but smaller projects appeared in my life.
Those projects, mostly related to other non-aviation hobbies of mine, actually had the effect of reinvigorating my interest in the RV project.
Now it's nearly complete. The satisfaction I get just sitting in the cockpit and looking around at my accomplishments is immense. A few more months...
Oh yeah, I did eventually get the fuel lines done, per plans
Not Overwhelmed
The only time I was overwhelmed was when I first went through the Preview Plans. There were so many pages and each page was so involved. But I wanted to built an RV so I put the Preview Plans in a drawer and never looked at them again. I built the plane one step at a time, following the path laid out in the instructions: Empennage, Wings, Fuse, and so on. I never felt overwhelmed. I sort of knew that if I just kept at it, I could finish. And even though I started not even knowing what a cleco was, I did finish and the last three years flying my RV have been magical. One of the best things I ever did.
The only time I was overwhelmed was when I first went through the Preview Plans. There were so many pages and each page was so involved. But I wanted to built an RV so I put the Preview Plans in a drawer and never looked at them again. I built the plane one step at a time, following the path laid out in the instructions: Empennage, Wings, Fuse, and so on. I never felt overwhelmed. I sort of knew that if I just kept at it, I could finish. And even though I started not even knowing what a cleco was, I did finish and the last three years flying my RV have been magical. One of the best things I ever did.
RPorter
Active Member
Having a deadline as well as school work, and being project manager has almost pushed me to the breaking point a few times during our build. There are definetly times when i want to pull my hair out, but then I see something big added to the plane, or think of what this plane will look like when completed. We are to the point in the build where not many "noticeable" things are being done. Just keep on truckin.
N8RV
Well Known Member
GREAT post, Steven.
Like most questions in life that involve personal opinion or experience, there are a lot of answers to the original question about what it takes to finish a project like this.
I would echo a couple of Steven's points: Don't make anything until you HAVE to and GET HELP when you need it.
As Steven said, it's tempting sometimes to skip ahead and make stuff that you're not ready for. I'm guessing that the fit of an old RV-3 kit required more "fudging" than the new pre-punched kits, but the principle still stands. Plus, what you think is a great idea NOW might end up being a stupid one THEN, once you start putting parts together.
There are a few naturals out there who could build one of these machines on an island with no prior experience. Most of us, however, need help. The skills required to build an airplane -- reading plans, cutting metal, shaping aluminum, riveting, wiring, etc. -- do not come naturally. It's a learned craft. And in the absence of a mentor of some kind, most of us will end up calling Van's for more new parts to screw up. That's the route many of us follow enroute to a flying airplane.
Some are lucky enough to be based at an airport with lots of RV builders around to offer advice and lend a hand. I had only one fellow builder who spent many hours of spare time bucking rivets for me. Unfortunately, though, he died before I finished my plane. Lucky for me, Danny King flew up and kicked me in gear on more than one occasion and, with lots of help from this site and the original RV builders' e-mail exchanges, Smokey became a reality in time. Without help, I would have sold the partial kit and given up. It's tough without some help.
One more thing to keep in mind as you contemplate building is to stick to the plans! Walking around Oshkosh and seeing some of the fantastic modifications that other builders have incorporated into their planes, it's tempting to adopt some of those into your own plane. However, nearly every deviation from the plans incorporates unseen changes in other parts, in either fit, form or function. The seemingly smallest changes can result in some BIG changes elsewhere. So, unless you're gifted in innovation and engineering and are willing to accept delays and remakes, stick to the plans.
Hope that helps. Good luck!
Like most questions in life that involve personal opinion or experience, there are a lot of answers to the original question about what it takes to finish a project like this.
I would echo a couple of Steven's points: Don't make anything until you HAVE to and GET HELP when you need it.
As Steven said, it's tempting sometimes to skip ahead and make stuff that you're not ready for. I'm guessing that the fit of an old RV-3 kit required more "fudging" than the new pre-punched kits, but the principle still stands. Plus, what you think is a great idea NOW might end up being a stupid one THEN, once you start putting parts together.
There are a few naturals out there who could build one of these machines on an island with no prior experience. Most of us, however, need help. The skills required to build an airplane -- reading plans, cutting metal, shaping aluminum, riveting, wiring, etc. -- do not come naturally. It's a learned craft. And in the absence of a mentor of some kind, most of us will end up calling Van's for more new parts to screw up. That's the route many of us follow enroute to a flying airplane.
Some are lucky enough to be based at an airport with lots of RV builders around to offer advice and lend a hand. I had only one fellow builder who spent many hours of spare time bucking rivets for me. Unfortunately, though, he died before I finished my plane. Lucky for me, Danny King flew up and kicked me in gear on more than one occasion and, with lots of help from this site and the original RV builders' e-mail exchanges, Smokey became a reality in time. Without help, I would have sold the partial kit and given up. It's tough without some help.
One more thing to keep in mind as you contemplate building is to stick to the plans! Walking around Oshkosh and seeing some of the fantastic modifications that other builders have incorporated into their planes, it's tempting to adopt some of those into your own plane. However, nearly every deviation from the plans incorporates unseen changes in other parts, in either fit, form or function. The seemingly smallest changes can result in some BIG changes elsewhere. So, unless you're gifted in innovation and engineering and are willing to accept delays and remakes, stick to the plans.
Hope that helps. Good luck!
N546RV
Well Known Member
I had the same reaction when I first got my preview plans. I'd been excitedly waiting for them ever since I placed the order, so I immediately opened the package and sat back with the binder.
Within 30 minutes I was thinking "oh jeez, what am I getting myself into?" After that first look, it all seemed very overwhelming. I stuck the plans somewhere and went on with my life.
A couple days later, I went back with fresh eyes, and this time, it all started to make sense. I was back to thinking "I can do this. I think. Maybe."
I figure there will be an emp kit in my driveway in the next three weeks, at which point I expect I'll probably go through the same cycle again; initial fright, followed by calming down and getting to work. It's just the way I generally handle stuff like this; I freak out a bit, then get to work, and the work is rarely as bad as I thought it was going to be during the initial freakout.
Select few
Being a pilot puts us in a select group, but being a builder/pilot is even more exclusive.... I don't say that to laud it, as most of us who build & fly know how much a debt we have to the designers and mentors who made our affliction possible.
But I have noticed that being a builder/pilot lends credibility among those in the know. This punched a button in my mind when a friend who is a retired 747 capt. asked my advice on a maintainance/upgrade issue.
I had a lot of great teachers and mentors, plus a supportive wife. But the one basic contribution I brought to the mix was tenacity. One friend said, 'Those who successfully finish their plane are not smarter than anyone else... they just don't know when to quit."
I guess I fit that mold. (I have an RV-9A to remind me of it when I consider giving up on soome other dimension of my life!)
Being a pilot puts us in a select group, but being a builder/pilot is even more exclusive.... I don't say that to laud it, as most of us who build & fly know how much a debt we have to the designers and mentors who made our affliction possible.
But I have noticed that being a builder/pilot lends credibility among those in the know. This punched a button in my mind when a friend who is a retired 747 capt. asked my advice on a maintainance/upgrade issue.
I had a lot of great teachers and mentors, plus a supportive wife. But the one basic contribution I brought to the mix was tenacity. One friend said, 'Those who successfully finish their plane are not smarter than anyone else... they just don't know when to quit."
I guess I fit that mold. (I have an RV-9A to remind me of it when I consider giving up on soome other dimension of my life!)
fixnflyguy
Well Known Member
Mindset
Since I am in the industry doing aircraft overhaul and maintenance (32 yrs worth) ,I may have an edge in the techniques and tooling.However, It is the mindset and desire to go through the lengthy,tedious but rewarding journey to build. It took me 16 years...yes 16, to build my RV-4...of course there was raising a family, building a house, job changes,ect. that cant be set aside for a later date. Unless you are an individual that has several hous per day of "disposable time", it will take 3-6 years to do at a good pace. If your unsure, its probably going to be a struggle the whole way through. Set your mind, and dont stray far from the plan if you decide to move forward. These projects have endless opertunity for variation,upgrades, and options that can put the financial brakes, as well as production brakes on in short order. I chose to build a basic VFR RV-4, and thats what I did, never once feeling like selling it, or that it wouldnt be done...nor did I set a date to finish it. 16 yrs later, it was exactly what I wanted before I had grey hair and grown kids. Now I enjoy every minute of flying it..and may even build another one.
Since I am in the industry doing aircraft overhaul and maintenance (32 yrs worth) ,I may have an edge in the techniques and tooling.However, It is the mindset and desire to go through the lengthy,tedious but rewarding journey to build. It took me 16 years...yes 16, to build my RV-4...of course there was raising a family, building a house, job changes,ect. that cant be set aside for a later date. Unless you are an individual that has several hous per day of "disposable time", it will take 3-6 years to do at a good pace. If your unsure, its probably going to be a struggle the whole way through. Set your mind, and dont stray far from the plan if you decide to move forward. These projects have endless opertunity for variation,upgrades, and options that can put the financial brakes, as well as production brakes on in short order. I chose to build a basic VFR RV-4, and thats what I did, never once feeling like selling it, or that it wouldnt be done...nor did I set a date to finish it. 16 yrs later, it was exactly what I wanted before I had grey hair and grown kids. Now I enjoy every minute of flying it..and may even build another one.
Yep...went thru all the emotions.
All the posts are spot on. The direct answer to you question has to be "it depends." It depends on the crosswalk between your skill set and the build requirements e.g., sheetmetal, fiberglass, electrical and so on. Of course your personality type is a major factor. Do you have subject matter experts accessable to you/your project. You get the idea. The upside is that every single issue is solvable and so are all the mistakes that get made.
I had a major worry that I'd push the wrong button and ruin the entire project or a major portion of it. A couple of those milestones are the canopy and wing incidence drilling. You'll note however that this forum contains all those horror stories along with how they were rectified. It took me two weeks to cut the canopy. Yes I said two weeks. Nine of those 14 days were just fretting and measuring and staring and walking around the project looking for something else that I needed to do instead of cut glass. It all went well as did all the worry beads. As is typical I was my own worse enemy.
Don
All the posts are spot on. The direct answer to you question has to be "it depends." It depends on the crosswalk between your skill set and the build requirements e.g., sheetmetal, fiberglass, electrical and so on. Of course your personality type is a major factor. Do you have subject matter experts accessable to you/your project. You get the idea. The upside is that every single issue is solvable and so are all the mistakes that get made.
I had a major worry that I'd push the wrong button and ruin the entire project or a major portion of it. A couple of those milestones are the canopy and wing incidence drilling. You'll note however that this forum contains all those horror stories along with how they were rectified. It took me two weeks to cut the canopy. Yes I said two weeks. Nine of those 14 days were just fretting and measuring and staring and walking around the project looking for something else that I needed to do instead of cut glass. It all went well as did all the worry beads. As is typical I was my own worse enemy.
Don
I expect it is different for each one. Some can finish a plane in a year or two. Others take longer. It is a long project, and life gets in the way. It took me 9 years to build my street rod, and never did I stop because of money. I haven't worked on my Rocket for 16 months - other priorities have taken precedence. I will get back to it, but perhaps not till fall. Again, not a money issue, just other commitments that also have to be attended to.
If you are in a postion to work at it full time, and treat it like a job, I suspect it can easily be done in a year. For me, that would take some of the fun out of it.
RPorter
Active Member
As Steven said, it's tempting sometimes to skip ahead and make stuff that you're not ready for.
We did this in order to make our plane look "good" for an open house in February. We are still backtracking and undoing our work from that. Definetily NOT a good idea to skip ahead/ around, it makes simple things 3 times harder later.
We did this in order to make our plane look "good" for an open house in February. We are still backtracking and undoing our work from that. Definetily NOT a good idea to skip ahead/ around, it makes simple things 3 times harder later.
UnPossible
Well Known Member
Sometimes when I was really stuck and not sure how to proceed, the best thing for me was to skip ahead in the plans and make some easy parts that required minimal thought... that way I kept making progress on the overall project and did not get bogged down by whatever was perplexing me at that moment. A lot of times, by the time I finished making the easy parts, I had a solution to my orgional problem.
Sorting the men from the boys!
Hey,
Hey, there are many times during a project when you feel like giving up, especially when you have just made a howler!! Or when you are scratching your head trying to do something.
I find the best way is to walk away from the project, go out on the Harley for a few days, mow the lawn, take the dogs for a walk. Sometimes, I walk away for a month or so and get all those jobs round the house that need finishing done.
I often find that when I am asleep the problem is running through my mind and in the morning I have got the answer, or several answers, or when I am concentrating on something different my mind drifts back and the problem is solved.
But, for me this is what sorts the men out from the boys, the that can and have from the wanabes, I am proud that I have the tenacity to see these things through and admire all those that have gone before, and will follow.
VAF is a great source of inspiration, of answers and of people from all over the world willing to help.
Its amazing what an individual can achieve but when we work together and help each other its fantastic. Keep drilling those holes and pounding the rivits.
Hey,
Hey, there are many times during a project when you feel like giving up, especially when you have just made a howler!! Or when you are scratching your head trying to do something.
I find the best way is to walk away from the project, go out on the Harley for a few days, mow the lawn, take the dogs for a walk. Sometimes, I walk away for a month or so and get all those jobs round the house that need finishing done.
I often find that when I am asleep the problem is running through my mind and in the morning I have got the answer, or several answers, or when I am concentrating on something different my mind drifts back and the problem is solved.
But, for me this is what sorts the men out from the boys, the that can and have from the wanabes, I am proud that I have the tenacity to see these things through and admire all those that have gone before, and will follow.
VAF is a great source of inspiration, of answers and of people from all over the world willing to help.
Its amazing what an individual can achieve but when we work together and help each other its fantastic. Keep drilling those holes and pounding the rivits.
Cadstat
Well Known Member
One bite at a time
You can eat an elephant one bit at a time. Finding time is the hard part, building is easy but a steady process if you can find a way to do a little something every day. It's supported to be enjoyed. Pilots are goal oriented by nature. If only cleaning up the shop, looking at the plans, do a little everyday.
And go fly. Some guys regret the the time spent flying with a buddy when they could be building. But getting some air will recharge your efforts. Go to Oshkosh if at all possible or at least talk to somebody who did. If you do a little everyday you will finish.
You can eat an elephant one bit at a time. Finding time is the hard part, building is easy but a steady process if you can find a way to do a little something every day. It's supported to be enjoyed. Pilots are goal oriented by nature. If only cleaning up the shop, looking at the plans, do a little everyday.
And go fly. Some guys regret the the time spent flying with a buddy when they could be building. But getting some air will recharge your efforts. Go to Oshkosh if at all possible or at least talk to somebody who did. If you do a little everyday you will finish.
