New to homebuilts

Hi everyone,

My name is Matt and I've been flying for about 5 years now. Three of which were spent as a flight instructor and the last one spent flying the CRJ200 out of New York's JFK airport.

I used to own a Citabria back when I lived in MT but I had to sell it when I moved to New York City. I'm starting to get the itch own my own aircraft again but I did not like spending over $80,000 on a used fabric covered 100 mph airplane that was a mediocre aerobatic performer. I think the homebuilt route is the way to go.

My wife and I are looking at buying a house in Long Island next spring and I really want to build some sort of aircraft once I have a garage again. I'd like it to be a good VFR xcountry machine that will be safe, economical, and comfortable for my wife and I (i'm 6' 2").

I have never built an airplane before so needless to say I'm a little overwhelmed with all the info out there. After doing some research for the past few weeks, here is what I came up with so far,

I think the RV-7 would be a good fit. I wanted to do an RV-8 but my wife said she would not want to ride in the back again like the Citabria. I instructed in Diamond DA20s, 40's, and 42's and my wife liked the visibility in these aircraft. I also like aerobatics so I think the 7 would be a good choice.

I think I would go with an IO-360 180 HP with a CS prop. I'm not sure if i'll be able to afford new or will have to go the used route yet.

As far as avionics, I'll have to see what I can afford. I would like to do a dual screen setup Garmin G3x with a 430W but that might be overkill for a VFR aircraft. I also don't plan on flying this aircraft IFR but I love the situational awareness for VFR cross country flight especially in New York's busy airspace.

Budget, $50,000-$70,000

Time Frame 3-5 years

Is this reasonable or am I dreaming? Thanks in advance for all the help i'm sure i'll need!

-Matt

The Vans Website has a pretty good cost estimator. From the posts I have read here, most folks seem to think it will give you a decent ball park figure for the type of RV configured they way you are thinking. But...I hear also that adding 15-20% to the number you get is a smart thing to do.

http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/cost-estimator.htm

This link ought to get you there.

Realistic

Sounds like a reasonable plan to me Matt - I'd skip the 430W if you know you're not going to go IFR - the built-in GPS's in the G3X units are going to give you much better capabilities anyways, and are perfect for VFR. That will save you $6K and about 15 lbs right there!

Paul

ok thanks!

Matt, as a professional pilot, I'd go IFR...you'll never regret it, as I did, in both my -6A and now my -10, with an SL-30 and a 430W.

You're probably IFR rated already and the extra utility being able to file IFR is for me, a major plus, especially when wx is around 800' overcast at the destination.

Welcome to the VAF family

Best,

Thanks for the input. I'd have to look into the costs for an IFR bird but for me i don't think it's worth the effort. There is more equipment you have to buy up front. The 430 for one. Also i would require an autopilot if i'm flying single pilot IFR.

If I remember from my CFI days there are more inspections that need to be done as well to keep the plane IFR current. There are also the 430w GPS updates that I would have to pay for every 28 days.

Lastly I don't like flying single pilot, non turbine single engine, IFR in a plane with out known ice certification, especially something I built. just kind of gives me the whillies

I wont rule it out compleatly though. A lot more reserch needs to be done!

Thanks
-Matt

A few comments:

1. Keep looking and learning, but bear in mind that by next spring things will be different. Experimental avionics, for one, change fast.
2. The non-certified autopilots work very well, and are relatively inexpensive (like $3 - 4 K, less if you buy one driven by your EFIS).
3. IFR capable is your choice, of course. I happen to be based at an airport in a valley, and it's not unusual for it to be closed in - 800 OVC, tops 2000, temperatures above freezing. eg. an easy IFR approach, with more or less vfr options for the last 800 feet if the engine quits. If I couldn't do an instrument approach there, I'd make a lot fewer trips, just out of concern that I'd end up away from home, renting a car, etc. As far as GPS database costs, you do not have to keep it current if you choose not to. In this case, it is not legal to use for approaches but you can still use it for enroute stuff (you're supposed to check the fixes haven't moved). So you could still depart IFR, and return if you have an ILS or VOR approach you can use. The only extra inspections required are a more complete pitot-static inspection every 24 months.
4. My guess is new is above your budget if it includes a new engine. Van's web site shows the cost of a new engine bought thru them, and it's competitive.

Yeah I hear you on the not renting the car/canceling the trip. You are also right about technology changing. By the time it comes down to building the panal, there will probably be something new out that is better.

I do like the idea of it being IFR capable in a pinch. Are the requirements for IFR certification for experamentals the same as part 23 aircraft? Where can I look them up?

Lots to think about.

-Matt

You can simply get a Garmin SL-30 and you can fly certified VOR, ILS and Localizer approaches. The Dynon EFIS is great and, for the cost of servos, you will get a dual axis autopilot, all for much less $s than the Garmin.

Expect to spend closer to $80K to $90K, depending upon engine, avionics and paint. If you don't want to build, you can probably buy a decent RV for not much more than it would cost to build. I would not advise doing that, as building is so much fun! (Well, not always....)

I don't know where to look the requirements up, probably in a FISDO order of some kind. The FAR's limit experimentals to day-VFR "unless otherwise authorized by the administrator". However, it seems the standard boilerplate operating limitations that everyone gets from their airworthiness inspection authorizes night and ifr operations if you abide by the requirements of 14 CFR 91, e.g., the same rules as everyone else.

About the only difference between experimentals and certifieds, from an operational point of view, is that experimentals cannot be used for compensation or hire. (The FAA will issue a waiver to this for type specific training, only.)

BTW, although GPS is very popular, there are still lots of IFR capable aircraft around that don't have certified GPS on board. In my case the home airport has an ILS with "ADF Required"; I paid for the Garmin 420, in part, because I couldn't stomach the thought of an ADF antenna on the plane!

Just follow 91.205(d) to figure out what you need for IFR. The "certification" is for individual systems like pitot/static system, VOR checks, current IFR-Certified GPS database.

Then there's the optional but common-sense things you need for safe IFR, such as redundant attitude information sources, pitot heat, alternate static, reliable autopilot, etc.

The beauty of Experimental IFR is that YOU are the one who decides your own personal minimums based on your aircraft's capabilities. If the weather looks like a chance of icing, rent a car. You won't have to fly where and when the boss tells you anymore because you will be the boss! And then there are the airline pilots I know who ONLY fly VFR in their own airplanes because going IFR is "too much like work." I like those guys.

Welcome to the club, BTW.

Yeah flying a Cat-II approach down to 100 feet is stressful enough in a plane with two crew members. I could do with out that stress when flying for fun. If the weather looks bad, crack a cold one and relax.

80-90K

Jeff R said:

You can simply get a Garmin SL-30 and you can fly certified VOR, ILS and Localizer approaches. The Dynon EFIS is great and, for the cost of servos, you will get a dual axis autopilot, all for much less $s than the Garmin.

Expect to spend closer to $80K to $90K, depending upon engine, avionics and paint. If you don't want to build, you can probably buy a decent RV for not much more than it would cost to build. I would not advise doing that, as building is so much fun! (Well, not always....)

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Wow. I am not spending nearly that on a simple VFR RV9a. I never would have even attempted at that cost. My vote on an EFIS and auto pilot is GRT, more for the money in my opinion. If you wanted to get her in the air on a budget look for a good engine core you can rebuild with an AP. Steam gauge panel less the vacuum gauges, use electric attitude indicator, used radios, used GPS, buy the fire wall forward kit, no paint for now, plenty of used interiors out there, wood prop. Good tools! Spend the money on those. I bought a used tool kit with many on the essentials for $700 and have been adding to it ever since. Spend the money on good spring back dimple dies, pneumatic squeezer with multiple style yokes, Tungsten bucking bar!! In Sum approximately half the previous quoted amount.

KatieB said:

And then there are the airline pilots I know who ONLY fly VFR in their own airplanes because going IFR is "too much like work." I like those guys. Welcome to the club, BTW.

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That be me. I can count on one hand how many times I have talked to ATC with 850 hrs in a RV-4.

I started out with a line and a heading on a sectional for navigation and ended up with a basic GPS that showed the ten closes airfields...thought I had died and gone to heaven with that.

Define your goals and build accordingly.