Van's Air Force
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What Engine to use?
- Thread starter AcezHi
- Start date
Greg Dillon
Active Member
O-320-H2AD---because it came with the partially completed kit I bought. At first I was unsure of it, but after some research I decided it was worthwhile. After disassembly and inspection I found it to be a very good core. Crank, rods, cases needed no rework. Even the cylinders were within limits. New pistons and rings, reground cam and a couple lifters and it was good to go. I'd choose an H2AD again.
Jeff R
Well Known Member
I took advantage of Van's Sun n Fun special last year and got the experimental IO-320. My building, due to some of life's challenges, has been cut way back and now I wish I had waited in some ways, but that engine was the biggest nut to crack and now I don't have to worry about it. But as Bill said, you still have a ways to go. If a good deal comes along, then jump on it, otherwise, keep patient.
I agree with everyone else, you have a long time to go looking. I just happened to get an engine yesterday. I ended up with a IO-320-B1A, 1700 SFRM, narrow deck and constant speed prop setup from ebay with full logs.
What I would suggest is to keep an eye open and wait for a good deal. Don't just "settle" for something. You'll want to read up on people that use 360's in -9's and 320's, fuel injection vs. normally aspirated, wide deck vs. narrow deck, etc. A ton of different engines will get you in the air, you have a lot to decide for what you desire your engine to do.
For me, this engine is great. I wanted a CS prop, but I don't plan to start with it. I'm just going to block it off and run a ground adjustable. I wanted a fuel injected, but plan on replacing the mags and Lycoming injection with the Precision Air setup.
I'm just finishing the empennage, and starting on the QB fuse and wings. I'm still a good 6-8 months before I'll probably really need the engine, but this was a good deal and nearby for me to pick up.
What I would suggest is to keep an eye open and wait for a good deal. Don't just "settle" for something. You'll want to read up on people that use 360's in -9's and 320's, fuel injection vs. normally aspirated, wide deck vs. narrow deck, etc. A ton of different engines will get you in the air, you have a lot to decide for what you desire your engine to do.
For me, this engine is great. I wanted a CS prop, but I don't plan to start with it. I'm just going to block it off and run a ground adjustable. I wanted a fuel injected, but plan on replacing the mags and Lycoming injection with the Precision Air setup.
I'm just finishing the empennage, and starting on the QB fuse and wings. I'm still a good 6-8 months before I'll probably really need the engine, but this was a good deal and nearby for me to pick up.
Dynafocal 2 motor mounts
David & acezhi,
The IO-320-B1A is a nice engine. It has one feature that is not common to most engines used on RVs. It has Dynafocal 2 motor mounts, rather than the more common Dynafocal 1 mounts. Dynafocal 2 mounts converge at 30 degrees, rather than the 18 degrees (going from memory here) of the Dynafocal 1. Dynafocal 2 mounts are designed for engines mounted to light twins, rather than single engine aircraft.
You can order a special Dynafocal 2 motor mount from Vans OR if you are going to overhaul the engine, you can have the crankcase converted to Dynafocal 1, by sending the cases out to Divco, in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I suspect that other crankcase shops offer this mod. I KNOW that Divco does.
The Dynafocal 2 engines also require special ($$$) spacers. If you don't get the spacers with the engine, they will cost more than having the modification done during a crankcase overhaul.
This is just one of many items you need to research before buying an engine. David and the other are giving you good advice about waiting and taking your time. As a first step, I suggest you read Lycoming SSP (Supplemental Service Publication) 108. This document details the differences between all Lycoming 4, 6 and 8 cylinder air cooled engines.
SSP 108 supersedes the older SSP 204. I am emailing a copy to acezhi. If anyone else would like a copy, contact me off list and I'll send it out.
Charlie Kuss
PS acezhi, I sent you a private message
David & acezhi,
The IO-320-B1A is a nice engine. It has one feature that is not common to most engines used on RVs. It has Dynafocal 2 motor mounts, rather than the more common Dynafocal 1 mounts. Dynafocal 2 mounts converge at 30 degrees, rather than the 18 degrees (going from memory here) of the Dynafocal 1. Dynafocal 2 mounts are designed for engines mounted to light twins, rather than single engine aircraft.
You can order a special Dynafocal 2 motor mount from Vans OR if you are going to overhaul the engine, you can have the crankcase converted to Dynafocal 1, by sending the cases out to Divco, in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I suspect that other crankcase shops offer this mod. I KNOW that Divco does.
The Dynafocal 2 engines also require special ($$$) spacers. If you don't get the spacers with the engine, they will cost more than having the modification done during a crankcase overhaul.
This is just one of many items you need to research before buying an engine. David and the other are giving you good advice about waiting and taking your time. As a first step, I suggest you read Lycoming SSP (Supplemental Service Publication) 108. This document details the differences between all Lycoming 4, 6 and 8 cylinder air cooled engines.
SSP 108 supersedes the older SSP 204. I am emailing a copy to acezhi. If anyone else would like a copy, contact me off list and I'll send it out.
Charlie Kuss
PS acezhi, I sent you a private message
Last edited:
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
I'd give a lot of thought to "ground adjustable". As I've seen the video showing the adjustment of a metal ground adjustable prop; and the fact that it wasn't too time consuming.....
But.............with the RV it will be more time consuming than you might imagine. It takes time to remove and replace a spinner. I don't see the point of it, and would rather just have a compromised F/P between climb and cruise. I run a C/S. It's perfect for climb, cruise, and an excellent air brake for the landing sequence. It's even better for in cockpit "noise abatement". A C/S will always be on the top of my essential list for RV type aircraft.
L.Adamson --- RV6A
Good plan
First, I think you are starting a good plan of investigating the major subsystems of your project in advance. This site is a great resource for engine information and learning from the experience of others.
When it comes to engines, many of us have owned, flown behind and worked on many different types of engines. My personal experience with Lycomings runs the gamut from an O-145 to IO-540s, narrow deck and wide deck, parallel valve to angle valve. Currently we are within a month of flying a narrow deck 320 on my RV-6A. It was a core I purchased for $1500. With expert from other VAF members, we disassembled the engine sent off the parts for overhaul, replaced the consumable parts, reassembled the engine per Lycoming procedures and specs and installed it on the airframe. I am in the process of following this method for the IO-540 engines on my RV-10(engine assembly to be complete this weekend) and on my HRII(Disassembly and component overhaul complete). This method has proven, at least for me, to be not only a learning process, but provide me with cost effective, 0 time engines. Overhauling an airplane engine is not difficult and with the resources in the VAF community, you can find the help you need to complete the task correctly and safely while learning something new.
Keep a lookout for a good core, 290/320/360, get a second opinion on the core and consider it another project component you are tasked with building. You will enjoy it, save a few bucks and learn something to boot.
E-mail me or PM me if I can help.
First, I think you are starting a good plan of investigating the major subsystems of your project in advance. This site is a great resource for engine information and learning from the experience of others.
When it comes to engines, many of us have owned, flown behind and worked on many different types of engines. My personal experience with Lycomings runs the gamut from an O-145 to IO-540s, narrow deck and wide deck, parallel valve to angle valve. Currently we are within a month of flying a narrow deck 320 on my RV-6A. It was a core I purchased for $1500. With expert from other VAF members, we disassembled the engine sent off the parts for overhaul, replaced the consumable parts, reassembled the engine per Lycoming procedures and specs and installed it on the airframe. I am in the process of following this method for the IO-540 engines on my RV-10(engine assembly to be complete this weekend) and on my HRII(Disassembly and component overhaul complete). This method has proven, at least for me, to be not only a learning process, but provide me with cost effective, 0 time engines. Overhauling an airplane engine is not difficult and with the resources in the VAF community, you can find the help you need to complete the task correctly and safely while learning something new.
Keep a lookout for a good core, 290/320/360, get a second opinion on the core and consider it another project component you are tasked with building. You will enjoy it, save a few bucks and learn something to boot.
E-mail me or PM me if I can help.
Geico266
Well Known Member
Check into the "Tee" mod that needs to be done.
O-320 160 hp, originally purchased from Van's in the mid 90s. Bought it with 885 hr ttsn off a 6A that was destroyed by Hurricane Charlie. Bought it because it had exhaust, baffles, alt, carb, oil cooler, engine mount and front nose gear, all for $10k less than a new engine without all the accessories. You are in good position to do something like this if you keep your eyes open and have cash ready when something good comes up. Good luck with your building, and welcome to VAF.
Bob Kelly
Bob Kelly
Confused
Charlie:
I'm confused. I thought the Dynafocal 2 mounts converge at 18 degrees and the Dynafocal 1 mounts converge at 30 degrees. Looking at Vans site, I'm more confused. What do you think?
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/engine_id_form.pdf
Charlie:
I'm confused. I thought the Dynafocal 2 mounts converge at 18 degrees and the Dynafocal 1 mounts converge at 30 degrees. Looking at Vans site, I'm more confused. What do you think?
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/engine_id_form.pdf
Basackwards again
Robbie,
Hey, I said I was going from (an obviously faulty) memory there. Thanks for the correction. Heck I never realized I was dyslexic till now!
Charlie
Robbie,
Hey, I said I was going from (an obviously faulty) memory there. Thanks for the correction. Heck I never realized I was dyslexic till now!
Charlie
Robert M
Well Known Member
Congratulations acezhi......
.......you are about to take your first step into complete madness! Just kidding. Congratulations though, getting the spousal unit onboard for the build is a major step in getting an RV built. Keep her involved as much as possible during the build.
As for a power plant - I'm in the middle of building my fuselage and I haven't picked my engine yet. I'm hoping for an O-320 but I'll take just about any deal - when the time (money) comes.
Good luck!
.......you are about to take your first step into complete madness! Just kidding. Congratulations though, getting the spousal unit onboard for the build is a major step in getting an RV built. Keep her involved as much as possible during the build.
As for a power plant - I'm in the middle of building my fuselage and I haven't picked my engine yet. I'm hoping for an O-320 but I'll take just about any deal - when the time (money) comes.
Good luck!
Yeah I made sure I got the spacers, but that's a good point. The engine is off a PA30 Comanche twin. I was also thinking about getting the conversion to the different mount.
As others have said, there are so many options, they will all work, and everything in life is a compromise.
My main suggestion is to watch and wait for the "deal" to come to you. Unless you have a pile of money to spend to get a brand new engine exactly the way you want it, you'll have to make a compromise most likely.
For me, I low bid this engine, didn't win it, but then the high bidder backed out so I got a second chance on it. Bottom line, it fits what I want and need, and I paid a price that I know I can still rebuild it and even buy expensive spacers if I had to and be happy. To me, that's the most important thing. Because if you aren't happy with what you end up with, it's going to drag your project to a halt quick.
In response to Fixed v. CS v. ground adjustable. My personal plan is to run the new Sensinich hollow carbon fiber ground adjustable prop. I keep reading about how during the high speed taxi tests people become airborne. I'm in Florida, we have some pretty tough density altitude in the summer. Most time I figure the prop will end up in "cruise" config, but in case I'm doing something that really requires climbing (going to the mountains, etc) then I'll adjust it. Once again, everything is a trade off. I could put a CS prop on, and the extra weight that comes with it, complexity of the govenor, etc. etc.
I like the fact that I CAN do it if I want to, flexibility is important to me.
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
Don't be fooled by the fix pitch crowd....
Instead of flying like a heavy weight truck; a C/S is more like a spirited race car versus a fluffy Piper Cub that some of these light weight F/P RV's are.
Bolting on a governor and oil tube are less complex than installing engine mounts!
I was once told that my R/V would in fact, resemble that heavy weight truck. But in fact, it's very light on the controls, climbs like a bat out of h..ll, trims with precision, and beats most R/V's around here!
L.Adamson --- RV6A
Kyle Boatright
Well Known Member
Don't be fooled by the fix pitch crowd....
Instead of flying like a heavy weight truck; a C/S is more like a spirited race car versus a fluffy Piper Cub that some of these light weight F/P RV's are.
Bolting on a governor and oil tube are less complex than installing engine mounts!
I was once told that my R/V would in fact, resemble that heavy weight truck. But in fact, it's very light on the controls, climbs like a bat out of h..ll, trims with precision, and beats most R/V's around here!
L.Adamson --- RV6A
To go the fastest (by a wee little bit), climb the steepest, get the best overall fuel burn for the mission, etc., the C/S prop is no doubt the best choice. On the other end of the spectrum, a lighweight wood prop gives you more useful load and results in an airplane that requires lighter pitch forces. Also, the FP leaves you with $5k-$8k left over for other things. And then, there is the in-between choice, the FP metal, which has its own set of advantages/disadvantages.
It's all about the compromises that fit your mission and pocketbook best.
Most of what you are about to experience will be similar to what most of us have been faced with during our projects. The really fun parts that make the process unique to you will be engine choice, prop choice, avionics choice, paint scheme and any "extras" you add. The old adage that "haste makes waste" holds very true in our hobby. Make a plan, ask for input, evaluate the input against your mission goals for the airplane and keep your eyes peeled for bargains/deals. Your flexibility can save lots of money without much sacrifice.
As far as the FP vs CS, you can set up for a CS install for almost nothing, to keep flexibiity. If you first install a FP and find you really need/want a CS, you will be able to sell the FP without taking a big hit, especially if you find a used FP to start. Having owned airplanes with both CS and FP, I personally prefer a FP, pitched for cruise. The overall expense, purchase/ownership, is a fraction of the expense of the CS. For my missions, the simplicity of a FP outweighs the climb performance difference a CS offers. That is my choice, but I fully understand and respect the choices some of my CS brothers have made for their needs.
Again, good luck.
n2prise
Well Known Member
ECI O-320, C/S Prop, 1 MAG & 1 LSE Plasma III
Welcome aboard the Van's Express. One thing for sure, by the time you get to that first flight, you will have made so many decisions about things you never dreamed about until now.
Although my builder number 90622 is for the 622nd empennage kit shipped for the RV-9A, I was in the air with my RV-9A as the 155th airplane to fly on June 9, 2005. You will find the first entry on PAGE 1 of my web site posted on October 25, 2002. It shows the 1-car garage preparations before the first boxes arrived from Van's Aircraft.
I had met some RV builders and pilots in the Huntsville, Alabama area and saw for myself the takeoff performance of a fixed-pitch prop and a constant-speed prop on a pair of RV-6's. But when I got into my phase 1 testing, it was apparent my engine/prop configuration was a winner for short field takeoffs and landings.
My engine choice was the ECI clone of a Lycoming O-320-D1A with the nickel-carbide cylinder coating ECI calls "CermiNil". The cylinders with this patented coating just do not rust from lack of use. Porche licensed the use of the process to ECI. I had the engine assembled and tested by Penn Yan Aero and even paid them a visit to see some cylinders come in for overhaul. The cylinders with the CermiNil coating were beautiful after more than 2000 hours! The other thing I liked about the ECI engine is the extra oil spray nozzles for the cam shaft that are not in the certified Lycoming engines.
As for the accessories, I wanted a regular carburetor and I want to say, that paid off recently when I had a dead battery and had to get another pilot friend to prop start the engine. Now that would not have been possible if my airplane had TWO solid-state ignition systems. I have one Light Speed Plasma III which adds about 15% extra fuel economy compared to a pair of Slick MAGs. Oddly enough, the first time I started the engine after 10 months on the airplane, I forgot to engage the circuit breaker to the LSE solid state ignition. That first engine start was using the one magneto only. My last short flight to return the airplane to home base was also on the one magneto. The guys who use dual solid state ignitions ususally have a second isolated battery in their airplanes.
Let's get back on track about the engine and accessories. With the carb, the mag/solid-state ignitions, and the C/S prop, I feel that I have a combination that provides excellent fuel economy in the range of 25 MPG while cruising at 160 MPH true air speed. The one Plasma III ignition adds about 15% better fuel economy compared to using two regular Slick mags. With the Grand Rapids engine monitor, I lean for an even fuel burn by monitoring EGT's and CHT's while noting engine smoothness. The engine RPM is set to 2300 via the blue knob to the prop governor, and the fuel flow is usually in the range of 5.5 to 6 gallons per hour. I try to do all my long cross country flights at 10,000 to 13,000 MSL where the Roncz airfoil wings of the RV-9A and the engine prop accessory combination provide the best fuel economy. I have made non-stop flights from Chattanooga to West Palm Beach, Florida. My trip to Denver in 2006 had only one fuel stop at Fayetteville, Arkansas on the west bound flight. I crossed a low weather front at Memphis in VFR conditions that day, briefly at 14,000 MSL over the rain clouds that were causing many pilots to divert around the storms below.
In the panel, I have a Dynon D-10A coupled to a Garmin GPS296 which keeps me advised of real-time actual winds aloft during my flights at any altitude. The GPS396 and GPS496 had not yet been introduced when I was building. The panel has Van's passive gauges for air speed, altitude, and vertical speed indicators. The Dynon can quit completely, and I still have the air-operated gauges for a safe flight.
I have an old NavAid wing leveler guided by the GPS 296 course data. I would buy the Trio autopilot if I were building today. I have also installed a toggle switch to couple the NavAid guidance from the CDI voltage output from my VOR receiver in my Garmin AT SL-30. The output data stream from the SL-30 can also be fed to the Dynon D-10A for VOR/ILS indications on the LCD screen. I also have the traditional GI-106 OBS/ILS display head powered by the SL-30. I still have room in the radio stack for a panel-mount IFR-approved GPS when and IF the budget allows in the future. For now, the airplane can meet basic IFR requirements.
For the amount of money I had available during the construction, I feel I got the key features I wanted and indeed, they have served me well in the past four years. I flew to Oshkosh in 2005 on the weekend the airplane came out of the paint shop. I also went again in 2006 with a video camera installed and recorded my arrival and departure from OSH and posted those videos on the web. The video recordings include the audio from the COM radio and the intercom in the airplane.
There are 135 web pages dealing with the construction of the airplane. Another 15 pages cover the phase 1 test flights and the paint shop experience leading up to the trip to Oshkosh in 2005. The trip to OSH 2005 begins on page 151. That was the beginning of an eight-day trip that included the Great Lakes, across Ohio and Pennsylvania to New Jersey. A short day trip to New England and a Hudson River sight-seeing return to NJ was also in the mix before returning home to Tennessee. I flew the airplane to LOE 2005 and won a trophy for the best RV-9/9A. I have made several trips to Florida, with two of them being ONE-day round trips on successive weekends.
I also created some web pages for a friend I coached while he built an RV-8 quick-build kit. He sold his Cessna 182 to make room for the RV-8 in the hangar. The 500+ photos he and another pilot took during their 5-day trip to Alaska are also posted on my web site. There is much to see and do via my web pages, including a visit to Van's Aircraft during some of my non-flying trips when my airplane was still under construction in my 1-car garage.
The bottom line, I am just one of the web-published RV builder/pilots to have made the journey you are just beginning. I hope the story of my experiences will motivate you and your wife to get the project off to a good start and make it an enjoyable joint-venture. Good Luck!
Welcome aboard the Van's Express. One thing for sure, by the time you get to that first flight, you will have made so many decisions about things you never dreamed about until now.
Although my builder number 90622 is for the 622nd empennage kit shipped for the RV-9A, I was in the air with my RV-9A as the 155th airplane to fly on June 9, 2005. You will find the first entry on PAGE 1 of my web site posted on October 25, 2002. It shows the 1-car garage preparations before the first boxes arrived from Van's Aircraft.
I had met some RV builders and pilots in the Huntsville, Alabama area and saw for myself the takeoff performance of a fixed-pitch prop and a constant-speed prop on a pair of RV-6's. But when I got into my phase 1 testing, it was apparent my engine/prop configuration was a winner for short field takeoffs and landings.
My engine choice was the ECI clone of a Lycoming O-320-D1A with the nickel-carbide cylinder coating ECI calls "CermiNil". The cylinders with this patented coating just do not rust from lack of use. Porche licensed the use of the process to ECI. I had the engine assembled and tested by Penn Yan Aero and even paid them a visit to see some cylinders come in for overhaul. The cylinders with the CermiNil coating were beautiful after more than 2000 hours! The other thing I liked about the ECI engine is the extra oil spray nozzles for the cam shaft that are not in the certified Lycoming engines.
As for the accessories, I wanted a regular carburetor and I want to say, that paid off recently when I had a dead battery and had to get another pilot friend to prop start the engine. Now that would not have been possible if my airplane had TWO solid-state ignition systems. I have one Light Speed Plasma III which adds about 15% extra fuel economy compared to a pair of Slick MAGs. Oddly enough, the first time I started the engine after 10 months on the airplane, I forgot to engage the circuit breaker to the LSE solid state ignition. That first engine start was using the one magneto only. My last short flight to return the airplane to home base was also on the one magneto. The guys who use dual solid state ignitions ususally have a second isolated battery in their airplanes.
Let's get back on track about the engine and accessories. With the carb, the mag/solid-state ignitions, and the C/S prop, I feel that I have a combination that provides excellent fuel economy in the range of 25 MPG while cruising at 160 MPH true air speed. The one Plasma III ignition adds about 15% better fuel economy compared to using two regular Slick mags. With the Grand Rapids engine monitor, I lean for an even fuel burn by monitoring EGT's and CHT's while noting engine smoothness. The engine RPM is set to 2300 via the blue knob to the prop governor, and the fuel flow is usually in the range of 5.5 to 6 gallons per hour. I try to do all my long cross country flights at 10,000 to 13,000 MSL where the Roncz airfoil wings of the RV-9A and the engine prop accessory combination provide the best fuel economy. I have made non-stop flights from Chattanooga to West Palm Beach, Florida. My trip to Denver in 2006 had only one fuel stop at Fayetteville, Arkansas on the west bound flight. I crossed a low weather front at Memphis in VFR conditions that day, briefly at 14,000 MSL over the rain clouds that were causing many pilots to divert around the storms below.
In the panel, I have a Dynon D-10A coupled to a Garmin GPS296 which keeps me advised of real-time actual winds aloft during my flights at any altitude. The GPS396 and GPS496 had not yet been introduced when I was building. The panel has Van's passive gauges for air speed, altitude, and vertical speed indicators. The Dynon can quit completely, and I still have the air-operated gauges for a safe flight.
I have an old NavAid wing leveler guided by the GPS 296 course data. I would buy the Trio autopilot if I were building today. I have also installed a toggle switch to couple the NavAid guidance from the CDI voltage output from my VOR receiver in my Garmin AT SL-30. The output data stream from the SL-30 can also be fed to the Dynon D-10A for VOR/ILS indications on the LCD screen. I also have the traditional GI-106 OBS/ILS display head powered by the SL-30. I still have room in the radio stack for a panel-mount IFR-approved GPS when and IF the budget allows in the future. For now, the airplane can meet basic IFR requirements.
For the amount of money I had available during the construction, I feel I got the key features I wanted and indeed, they have served me well in the past four years. I flew to Oshkosh in 2005 on the weekend the airplane came out of the paint shop. I also went again in 2006 with a video camera installed and recorded my arrival and departure from OSH and posted those videos on the web. The video recordings include the audio from the COM radio and the intercom in the airplane.
There are 135 web pages dealing with the construction of the airplane. Another 15 pages cover the phase 1 test flights and the paint shop experience leading up to the trip to Oshkosh in 2005. The trip to OSH 2005 begins on page 151. That was the beginning of an eight-day trip that included the Great Lakes, across Ohio and Pennsylvania to New Jersey. A short day trip to New England and a Hudson River sight-seeing return to NJ was also in the mix before returning home to Tennessee. I flew the airplane to LOE 2005 and won a trophy for the best RV-9/9A. I have made several trips to Florida, with two of them being ONE-day round trips on successive weekends.
I also created some web pages for a friend I coached while he built an RV-8 quick-build kit. He sold his Cessna 182 to make room for the RV-8 in the hangar. The 500+ photos he and another pilot took during their 5-day trip to Alaska are also posted on my web site. There is much to see and do via my web pages, including a visit to Van's Aircraft during some of my non-flying trips when my airplane was still under construction in my 1-car garage.
The bottom line, I am just one of the web-published RV builder/pilots to have made the journey you are just beginning. I hope the story of my experiences will motivate you and your wife to get the project off to a good start and make it an enjoyable joint-venture. Good Luck!
Greg Dillon
Active Member
that's one of the first things I checked--the case has a 'T' stamped on the dataplate. It's a 1982 vintage out of a CAP 172.
rv9aviator
Well Known Member
I bought an 0-320 E3D out of a used Cherokee reasonable. I stayed with the low compression pistons so I could use what ever swill I can buy when the plane is finished. This is the same engine Mel has in his Rv-6 but his may be 160 HP. Very dependable engine and is set up for a fuel pump.
Wallbangar
Well Known Member
SSP108
Please send me one of the ssp108 to [email protected]
llemay
3509 Ashmere loop
Round Rock, Tx. 78687
Please send me one of the ssp108 to [email protected]
llemay
3509 Ashmere loop
Round Rock, Tx. 78687
