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  #1  
Old 01-08-2019, 03:39 PM
WayneJ WayneJ is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Auburn, Washington
Posts: 19
Talking Any opinions on tools out there?

I know a guy who's flying the RV-12 he finished in 2015. He's now planning to start an RV-14 and is buying tools needed for the project. He has all the tools required for the RV-12, bought a kit from Cleaveland Aircraft tool in 2012. He's building a list of what is needed by comparing what he has to what is on the Cleaveland RV-14 tool kit list. That's pretty simple, most of the needed tools relate to riveting. But there are choices to be made as to what brand and quality to buy. He is a tool guy who believes in buying quality and doesn't mind spending more for the best. These are some of the tools where there are options and choices to be made:
1. Rivet gun. The Sioux costs more but is it worth it?
2. 2X or 3X. Or both?
3. DRDT-2 or C-Frame. Or both?
4. Tungsten bucking bar. Is one enough? Which one(s)?
5. Back rivet plate. Is 4" x 16" big enough?
6. Threaded Micro Stop Countersinks, how many?
7. Which type of mushroom set? With or without the rubber guard?
8. Which dimple dies? Tank skin, substrate, spring back, he's very confused on this.
9. Pneumatic squeezer vs Numatx. All reviews rave about the Numatx.
10. Which yokes are required and/or useful.

All advise and opinions appreciated. I'll pass it along to my friend.
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  #2  
Old 01-08-2019, 07:15 PM
David Paule David Paule is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 3,667
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1. I had a Sioux gun that died. I bought an ACAT gun from The Yardstore and it's excellent. Feathering trigger, reliable, etc.

2. Don't know the RV-14. I use a 2X on the -3 rivets and a 3X on the -4 rivets. For only one gun, I'd get an ACAT 3X. For more on rivet guns take a look at this thread.

3. C-frame works quite well. No need for anything else.

4. I have one and it's my go-to. It has square faces, and one slanted face would be handier. But sometimes I use a small steel L bar because it fets better in that case, and less often one of the other steel bars.

5. It's not wide enough. It's too easy to accidentally mislocate the part and drive a rivet off the plate. I don't know what's needed for the RV-14, but once I borrowed an RV-10 buddy's 6' long plate for something. Once. And since I'm building an RV-3B, there are more unusual things going on than a well-thought-out RV-14.

6. One minimum. I have one for the #30 pilot, one for a #40 pilot, and one for a #19 pilot (for 8-32 screws) would be handy too. But the RV-14 might have different requirements.

7. I like a swivel set without the guard.

8. As long as he gets Cleaveland dimple dies, he's doing okay. I have the tank and substructure and use them. Are they necessary? I don't know.

9. Never used a Numatx. But my pneumatic squeezer works fine and no reason to spend more.

10. I have a 4" one with the hole and it's my every-day one. I have a small one, can't remember its size, that once in a while is necessary to use to fit something where the 4" is too big - caveat, the RV-3B, my project, is smaller than the RV-14. I've heard that a 4" no-hole yoke would be handy in a few places and it would have been, but I don't have one. The longeron yoke is essential too.

Dave
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  #3  
Old 01-08-2019, 07:40 PM
wirejock's Avatar
wirejock wirejock is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 3,081
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Hate to question my Mentor Dave. He's always right but here goes...

1. Rivet gun. The Sioux costs more but is it worth it? Love mine. Still pounding. Worth it to me.
2. 2X or 3X. Or both? 3X. Never found a use for a 2X. Dial the pressure down.
3. DRDT-2 or C-Frame. Or both? C-frame. Love beating it with a hammer.
4. Tungsten bucking bar. Is one enough? Which one(s)? Any or all. 4" with one angled face lat least.
5. Back rivet plate. Is 4" x 16" big enough? Rarely use it. That one is adequate. Learn to buck!
6. Threaded Micro Stop Countersinks, how many? 3. #40, #30 & extra.
7. Which type of mushroom set? With or without the rubber guard? Rubber guard swivel set.
8. Which dimple dies? Tank skin, substrate, spring back, he's very confused on this.
Spring back full set. I used tank and substructure.
9. Pneumatic squeezer vs Numatx. All reviews rave about the Numatx. Also don't use as much as others. Pneumatic works fine. Learn to buck!
10. Which yokes are required and/or useful.*Longeron, plus a couple standard yokes. Larger the yoke, the more it tends to clinch rivets.
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Estes Park, CO
http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
wirejock at yahoo dot com
Donated 12/27/2018. Plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV reserved (2,000+ hours)
HS SB, empennage, tanks, wings, fuse, working finishing kit
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
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  #4  
Old 01-19-2019, 07:58 PM
Stockmanreef Stockmanreef is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Midland, mi
Posts: 623
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search cleaveland tools for rv-14. bunch of useful special dimple die sets

numatx is awesome. it can be attached to a c-frame for dimpling. you have to have a c frame built (welded).
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Ken Stockman
Midland, MI
EAA Chapter 1093 member


RV-14 (serial number 140073)
N73XP (at least that # reserved now)
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  #5  
Old 01-20-2019, 02:08 PM
Stockmanreef Stockmanreef is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Midland, mi
Posts: 623
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I only had a 2x rivet gun for a long time, the got a 3x for larger rivets (got cheap on ebay). Nice thing is that you can keep the same pressure on the low pressure line and switch back and forth with no adjustment to pressure. Needless to say I split the air from the compressor and have one for riveting and spraying paint, then a high pressure line for everything else.

bucking bars I have each is used a lot:

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...ar12-04864.php
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...bar12-0486.php
http://www.cleavelandtool.com/Specia...RV-14-specific one for RV-14 Empennage/productinfo/BBRV10/#.XEPWwS3Myu4

plus there are some tight places which will require a thin bucking bar--not necessarily tungsten.

Also your friend will need other riveting stuff:
for back riveting:
http://www.cleavelandtool.com/Back-R.../#.XESjMi3Myu4
http://www.cleavelandtool.com/Back-R.../#.XESjRC3Myu4

regular and offset cup rivet set 1/8" for #4 rivets.

This will allow you yo put in dimple dies and use your rivet gun to buck dimples and allow you to attach a #40 cup die for riveting the #40 round head rivets..
http://www.cleavelandtool.com/401-Ri.../#.XESj8y3Myu4

numatx has plans for building the cframe. I had the pieces cut at a shop and then my father-in-law and brother-in-law welded it. I sunk mine into a bench to make it flush with the surface and then had leafs that I could swing up for dimpling. Also the squeezer is small and allows you to squeeze in places a regular one could not.

I have a 3", 4" (heavy) and longeron yokes. The 3" is what I use the most, but the 4" allows you to get to places where you can't with the 3". The no hole yoke would be nice to have, but I typically just put a blind rivet where you need the no hole yoke.

it you want to go wild on the counter sinkers then:
1 set for 3 rivets
1 set for 3 dimples
1 set for 4 rivets
1 set for 4 dimples
1 for variable settings.

Also make a bunch of dimple templates out of various thickness aluminum to check depth.

finally one critical tool is a competent bucking partner. There are places where you can't go it alone. Wing skins and closing up the empennage. For the latter, I stood it up end on a bench and secured it in place, then had my wife go inside the upright empennage to use the bucking bar.
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Midland, MI
EAA Chapter 1093 member


RV-14 (serial number 140073)
N73XP (at least that # reserved now)
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