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Rotec TBI ?
- Thread starter ratc
- Start date
RetiredRacer
Well Known Member
I have one fitted to a 0-235. I don't know how to insert photo's here, but I could e-mail them to you If you like.
Bob
Bob
I have been test flying a Rans S-7 with Jabiru 3300 6 cylinder for 11 hours or so. The owner replaced the standard Bing carb (good move) with a Rotec as the Bing was running way lean and without a needle swap we couldnt use so thought why not try a Rotec instead.
It has performed really well straight out of the box, starts well, runs smoothly, easy to lean. Only drawbacks I have incountered are that it siphons fuel unless you turn the fuel tap off (high wing configuration) and coughs if you are a bit quick with the throttle (no accelerator pump).
Other than that its really nice, and since then I have decided to fit one to my Pitts.
It has performed really well straight out of the box, starts well, runs smoothly, easy to lean. Only drawbacks I have incountered are that it siphons fuel unless you turn the fuel tap off (high wing configuration) and coughs if you are a bit quick with the throttle (no accelerator pump).
Other than that its really nice, and since then I have decided to fit one to my Pitts.
joeboisselle
Well Known Member
I'm currently installing one on my o-360 rv-4... I hope to have it all together and running this weekend, I'll put up a parts list, photos and a pirep for your building and reading pleasure when it's done. 
rotec installation pics
Hello i have installed one and flew with it. it work well and i did some pos-neg G without any problem. the installation was requiring some ''home-improvement''. i am new on this site and will get familiarize how it works prior to send some picture.
Michel
Looking for any installation updates - Good or Bad with pictures if available,
particularly for the 0-320
Hello i have installed one and flew with it. it work well and i did some pos-neg G without any problem. the installation was requiring some ''home-improvement''. i am new on this site and will get familiarize how it works prior to send some picture.
Michel
Hello i have installed one and flew with it. it work well and i did some pos-neg G without any problem. the installation was requiring some ''home-improvement''. i am new on this site and will get familiarize how it works prior to send some picture.
Michel
Instructions are in the upper left corner of this page.............
like this........
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Clouddancer
Well Known Member
very interested in TBI installations
Joe, Michel
I will be very interested to see some pictures of Rotec TBI installations on Lycomings. If everything works out, we will be hanging the engine today for a first trial. We will be soon trying to get our Rotec TBI installation done. I'm interested if you are attaching the regulator directly to the housing or have it attached only by the fuel lines?
Joe, Michel
I will be very interested to see some pictures of Rotec TBI installations on Lycomings. If everything works out, we will be hanging the engine today for a first trial. We will be soon trying to get our Rotec TBI installation done. I'm interested if you are attaching the regulator directly to the housing or have it attached only by the fuel lines?
RetiredRacer
Well Known Member
Hello i have installed one and flew with it. it work well and i did some pos-neg G without any problem. the installation was requiring some ''home-improvement''. i am new on this site and will get familiarize how it works prior to send some picture.
Michel
Michel,
(note my above post)
I have one cylinder (#1) running a bit lean (high EGT's). In trying to pinpoint the problem, I believe it could be the TBI. By pulling the black knob back slightly, the EGT's stabilize. I'm figuring the slide slightly protruding is creating turbulence and thus mixing the fuel/air mixture better. Are you by any chance having anything similar?
I'll see what I can do to insert some installation photo's
Bob
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Clouddancer
Well Known Member
Bob
I sent you a PM with my email if you agree to send me some pictures as well.
Thanks!
I sent you a PM with my email if you agree to send me some pictures as well.
Thanks!
RetiredRacer
Well Known Member
I have already ordered one of these thanks guys. But being down under it takes time.
Sent you an email Andreas.
Bob
joeboisselle
Well Known Member
Got it together with a short ground run today. I didn't bring the camera, and it was blowing 20 knots across the runway so all I have so far is "it makes the propeller go 'round" There's a few of my homemade pieces that need fine tuning. Compared to setting up the marvel carb, this is really quite easy.
Clouddancer
Well Known Member
Pictures of Rotec TBI Installation on O-320
Michel was so kind to send me some pictures of his installation and agreed that I put them in the forum. A very neat and compact installation. Thanks alot Michel! ...perhaps somebody can comment on the high fuel consumption at full rich position?
"here,s few pics of my installation. it is on my RV4 C-GVFR. it has a 0-320-E2D with a snowline exhaust cross over. i had to make a bellcrank in order to transfer the motion lateraly as you can see. also i did manufacture a fitting to attache the regulator to the carb. it requier some homeimprovement thinking to adapt the TBI. the TBI do perfom quite well in all aspect of flight. my only concern is the fuel consumption wich is high in a full rich position. with a carburator under 5k ft i leave it ful and it suck 8.5 gal-hr at 2400 rpm but with the tbi is went up to 11 !!!!!!!. so by playing with the mixture i found a proper set where it should suck the same amount of gas. other than that i have rock the aircraft under soft aerobatic without any problem."
Michel was so kind to send me some pictures of his installation and agreed that I put them in the forum. A very neat and compact installation. Thanks alot Michel! ...perhaps somebody can comment on the high fuel consumption at full rich position?
"here,s few pics of my installation. it is on my RV4 C-GVFR. it has a 0-320-E2D with a snowline exhaust cross over. i had to make a bellcrank in order to transfer the motion lateraly as you can see. also i did manufacture a fitting to attache the regulator to the carb. it requier some homeimprovement thinking to adapt the TBI. the TBI do perfom quite well in all aspect of flight. my only concern is the fuel consumption wich is high in a full rich position. with a carburator under 5k ft i leave it ful and it suck 8.5 gal-hr at 2400 rpm but with the tbi is went up to 11 !!!!!!!. so by playing with the mixture i found a proper set where it should suck the same amount of gas. other than that i have rock the aircraft under soft aerobatic without any problem."
rocketbob
Well Known Member
Its hard to say without density altitude numbers. Rotec could make a different spray bar with fewer holes in it.
I have the same unit sitting on the bench not installed yet. It looks like full rich is what you make it. Just like your linkage. If you know that your carb produced 8 gph full rich, then pull the knob till you get 8 gph under the same circumstances, mark that spot and make a stop for it.
RotecTBIlogo AD: 15th March 2010
EXTRA NOTES: 15-03-2010
* The full rich position should be set at a point which results in an 80 degree F drop from maximum EGT. This will almost certainly be at a lever position before the TBI rich full stop.
I am at sea level +89 ft.This is what I will do when I switch from carb to TBI.
BTW..... go to the Rotec site so you can understand what the primer button in the center of the regulator can do for you.
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rocketbob
Well Known Member
Since the stops are fixed via rollpin to the spray bar too much fuel in the full-rich position and adjusting accordingly will result in less travel between full rich and a full lean condition. I would think having the holes on the small side would be a bit better to start with since they could be enlarged with printed circuit board drills. Its easier to enlarge the holes in the spray bar and impossible to go the other way.
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Also, You might check to see that you have the correct model for your motor.
An O320 would use a model 40-4. An O360 would use a model 40-4/5.
You can tell by measuring the throw of the throttle plate.
O320 throw = 1.57 inches.
O360 throw = 1.89 inches.
Clouddancer
Well Known Member
Gasman,
Thank you for the valuable inputs! I hope Michel will read it too.
We are not there with our TBI installation, yet (see picture).
First trial fit of our Rotec TBI-48-4/5
Thank you for the valuable inputs! I hope Michel will read it too.
We are not there with our TBI installation, yet (see picture).
First trial fit of our Rotec TBI-48-4/5
Michel was so kind to send me some pictures of his installation and agreed that I put them in the forum. A very neat and compact installation. Thanks alot Michel! ...perhaps somebody can comment on the high fuel consumption at full rich position?
"here,s few pics of my installation. it is on my RV4 C-GVFR. it has a 0-320-E2D with a snowline exhaust cross over. i had to make a bellcrank in order to transfer the motion lateraly as you can see. also i did manufacture a fitting to attache the regulator to the carb. it requier some homeimprovement thinking to adapt the TBI. the TBI do perfom quite well in all aspect of flight. my only concern is the fuel consumption wich is high in a full rich position. with a carburator under 5k ft i leave it ful and it suck 8.5 gal-hr at 2400 rpm but with the tbi is went up to 11 !!!!!!!. so by playing with the mixture i found a proper set where it should suck the same amount of gas. other than that i have rock the aircraft under soft aerobatic without any problem."
I have problem with this cable.
Please check and verify it is ok.
http://www.vansairforce.net/_WWWTP/1.htm
.
Clouddancer
Well Known Member
Rotec TBI installation update
We are progressing slowly with the TBI installation (other work done in between). But I thought it might be worth to give an update.
We did not like the idea of the regulator just hanging on the fuel fittings therefore we made an aluminum bracket that incorporates the attachment of the mixture control as well. The bracket is made from one piece of aluminum sheet and needed some time to figure out, how it should be bent to increase stiffness and to garantuee functionality.
The regulator is placed behind the TBI, located slightly above the fuel intake level. We might add a duct for cooling air to the regulator later (for MOGAS use). The power control cable is still missing.
The attachment for the diaphragma override (primer) link is still missing. It is planned to have a simple push to action control cable. Regulator is attached to the bracket with 4 bolts. The 2 remaining bolts hold the regulator together while mounting it to the bracket
Mixture control cable running in fore and aft direction. We probably add a link between the engine case and the very aft end of the bracket for increased stiffness.
Please note that the installation on the pictures is only preliminary (loose and not secured or even some wrong bolts etc.)
We are progressing slowly with the TBI installation (other work done in between). But I thought it might be worth to give an update.
We did not like the idea of the regulator just hanging on the fuel fittings therefore we made an aluminum bracket that incorporates the attachment of the mixture control as well. The bracket is made from one piece of aluminum sheet and needed some time to figure out, how it should be bent to increase stiffness and to garantuee functionality.
The regulator is placed behind the TBI, located slightly above the fuel intake level. We might add a duct for cooling air to the regulator later (for MOGAS use). The power control cable is still missing.
The attachment for the diaphragma override (primer) link is still missing. It is planned to have a simple push to action control cable. Regulator is attached to the bracket with 4 bolts. The 2 remaining bolts hold the regulator together while mounting it to the bracket
Mixture control cable running in fore and aft direction. We probably add a link between the engine case and the very aft end of the bracket for increased stiffness.
Please note that the installation on the pictures is only preliminary (loose and not secured or even some wrong bolts etc.)
Rotec TBI O-360 Install
Here is my installation. Hopefully it will work.
I modified Van's standard bracket for attaching cables to a carb to accommodate attaching the cables to the TBI. The aft end was cut off as it was not needed and a part of it was bent 90 degrees or so for the mixture cable attachment point. On the other side I riveted a piece of angle and used it to secure the fuel line/TBI regulator using an adel clamp. (behind the throttle cable in this image)
For Van's standard throttle quadrant cable the bracket that came on the TBI to attach the throttle cable leaves too long of a space between the anchor point and the throttle control on the TBI. I made a new bracket from 2 x 1 1/2 x 0.125 angle to move the anchor point about 2" forward. With this adjustment Van's cable fit.
To get the mixture cable to properly work the mixture lever on the TBI I made a bell crank. The bracket that is attached using the two forward studs that attach the TBI to the sump was made from Van's aileron bracket parts replacing the eyeball bearing with a shaft bearing of the same dimensions, the only difference being it uses a 1/4" bolt instead of the 3/16" bolt Van's eyeball bearing uses. It can be seen in both the picture above and the two below. The bellcrank part of the assembly was made to a shape and the hole placement was determined to end up with the appropriate amount of travel so that the mixture lever on the TBI and the cable will both have full travel. Two spacers were needed top and bottom of the bearing because of the thickness of the Van's aileron bracket to allow proper movement. I made these by enlarging the hole in a #10 washer to 1/4". The #10 washer O.D. fit the hole in the aileron bracket perfectly.
The box attached to the bottom servers two purposes. One, it puts the bottom at the same position as a carb so installation of the air box should be according to plans. The second is if this thing doesn't work all that well a carb can be installed simply by removing all this and replacing it with the standard carb. A new cable attachment bracket and air box top plate will also be needed. The box was constructed with a top plate that attaches to the TBI with the 1/4-20 bolts that need to be safetied and then the box attaches to that plate. The air box top plate was match drilled to the bottom of the box.
I hope this helps someone out there struggling with this installation as I did.
Forgot to mention that I did not choose to install a cable to activate the primer button on the TBI regulator. I installed Van's electric primer system and didn't see a need for both. Also, it seems very likely that once depressed the likely result of using that button is a puddle of fuel in the air cleaner box.
Here is my installation. Hopefully it will work.
I modified Van's standard bracket for attaching cables to a carb to accommodate attaching the cables to the TBI. The aft end was cut off as it was not needed and a part of it was bent 90 degrees or so for the mixture cable attachment point. On the other side I riveted a piece of angle and used it to secure the fuel line/TBI regulator using an adel clamp. (behind the throttle cable in this image)
For Van's standard throttle quadrant cable the bracket that came on the TBI to attach the throttle cable leaves too long of a space between the anchor point and the throttle control on the TBI. I made a new bracket from 2 x 1 1/2 x 0.125 angle to move the anchor point about 2" forward. With this adjustment Van's cable fit.
To get the mixture cable to properly work the mixture lever on the TBI I made a bell crank. The bracket that is attached using the two forward studs that attach the TBI to the sump was made from Van's aileron bracket parts replacing the eyeball bearing with a shaft bearing of the same dimensions, the only difference being it uses a 1/4" bolt instead of the 3/16" bolt Van's eyeball bearing uses. It can be seen in both the picture above and the two below. The bellcrank part of the assembly was made to a shape and the hole placement was determined to end up with the appropriate amount of travel so that the mixture lever on the TBI and the cable will both have full travel. Two spacers were needed top and bottom of the bearing because of the thickness of the Van's aileron bracket to allow proper movement. I made these by enlarging the hole in a #10 washer to 1/4". The #10 washer O.D. fit the hole in the aileron bracket perfectly.
The box attached to the bottom servers two purposes. One, it puts the bottom at the same position as a carb so installation of the air box should be according to plans. The second is if this thing doesn't work all that well a carb can be installed simply by removing all this and replacing it with the standard carb. A new cable attachment bracket and air box top plate will also be needed. The box was constructed with a top plate that attaches to the TBI with the 1/4-20 bolts that need to be safetied and then the box attaches to that plate. The air box top plate was match drilled to the bottom of the box.
I hope this helps someone out there struggling with this installation as I did.
Forgot to mention that I did not choose to install a cable to activate the primer button on the TBI regulator. I installed Van's electric primer system and didn't see a need for both. Also, it seems very likely that once depressed the likely result of using that button is a puddle of fuel in the air cleaner box.
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pierre smith
Well Known Member
Safety wire issue.
Bob, the bottom two bolts in the last picture have a loosening force applied to them. The safety wire needs to be on the opposite side of the bottom right hand bolt, in order to have a tightening force applied, and the bottom left bolt needs to have the safety wire re-routed as well.
Just wire them in pairs...the two right side bolts and the two left side bolts paired up and eliminate the bottom safety wire altogether.
Otherwise, it looks like a well thought out approach to the problem.
Best,
Bob, the bottom two bolts in the last picture have a loosening force applied to them. The safety wire needs to be on the opposite side of the bottom right hand bolt, in order to have a tightening force applied, and the bottom left bolt needs to have the safety wire re-routed as well.
Just wire them in pairs...the two right side bolts and the two left side bolts paired up and eliminate the bottom safety wire altogether.
Otherwise, it looks like a well thought out approach to the problem.
Best,
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digidocs
Well Known Member
Hi Bobby,
Thanks for posting the pictures of your TBI installation. I've always thought they were neat units.
It may or may not ultimately be an issue, but I am concerned about the aluminum lines and fittings holding the regulator in place. It seems possible that vibration and fatigue could cause a crack in those fittings and a resulting large fuel leak. Using steel AN fittings and adding some sort of support structure for the regulator would do much to minimize that possibility.
No matter what you decide, I'll look forward to hearing about your results with the Rotec.
Take care,
David
Thanks for posting the pictures of your TBI installation. I've always thought they were neat units.
It may or may not ultimately be an issue, but I am concerned about the aluminum lines and fittings holding the regulator in place. It seems possible that vibration and fatigue could cause a crack in those fittings and a resulting large fuel leak. Using steel AN fittings and adding some sort of support structure for the regulator would do much to minimize that possibility.
No matter what you decide, I'll look forward to hearing about your results with the Rotec.
Take care,
David
Rotec lateral vs lenghtwise install
Hi Andreas:
What was your reason for choosing a lateral spray bar orientation versus lengthwise which appears to be the more common one? What have your results been so far? How is the mixture distribution when leaning, are your cylinders peaking more or less evenly?. I am about to start an installation in my RV9A and want to pick the brains of those who have already done it to see if there are lessons to be learnt.
I have read somewhere that the lateral spray bar setup yields better fuel distribution than lengthwise, but have it seen confirmed anywhere.
Regards,
Jorge T Blohm
9A0
N789BN
Hi Andreas:
What was your reason for choosing a lateral spray bar orientation versus lengthwise which appears to be the more common one? What have your results been so far? How is the mixture distribution when leaning, are your cylinders peaking more or less evenly?. I am about to start an installation in my RV9A and want to pick the brains of those who have already done it to see if there are lessons to be learnt.
I have read somewhere that the lateral spray bar setup yields better fuel distribution than lengthwise, but have it seen confirmed anywhere.
Regards,
Jorge T Blohm
9A0
N789BN
pitts flyer
Active Member
FWIW, I have currently the Rotec on a Pitts, and a recent problem I had was a leaky diaphram in the regulator. This caused the engine to really stumble bad after going to full power (like on take-off). I am dealing with Rotec now about the leaky diaphram. But all this to say that I would not locate the nipple which is the air sense in the up orientation, but rather at the bottom, so that if there is any fuel or water that somehow gets into the system, it can potentially drain out through the tube to the throttle body. I note that the Swiss fellow seems to have his nipple on the regulator at the top as it is currently oriented on the plane.
I have also in the past used an Ellison, which developed the identical problem (fuel or water on the sense side of the diaphram). (which is why I knew what to look for on this Rotec). The same thing happened, the engine would virtually die, or go to just idle just about the time the aircraft was leaving the ground on takeoff. While I really like these TBIs (Ellison and Rotec), one needs to check the sense tubes periodically for any liquid in them. It can cause a problem. FWIW.....
I have also in the past used an Ellison, which developed the identical problem (fuel or water on the sense side of the diaphram). (which is why I knew what to look for on this Rotec). The same thing happened, the engine would virtually die, or go to just idle just about the time the aircraft was leaving the ground on takeoff. While I really like these TBIs (Ellison and Rotec), one needs to check the sense tubes periodically for any liquid in them. It can cause a problem. FWIW.....
Clouddancer
Well Known Member
Hello Jorge,
The reason for the transverse orientation was probably the same instruction that you have read. As I'm currently on vacation, I do not have everything on hand. But I believe, it was written in the Ellison manual. As the two units are technically very similar, this should apply as well to the Rotec TBI. But I had no reports from anyone that has tested both orientations.
On the other hand, the transverse mounting made the installation possible without adding bellcranks.
Our RV is still under construction, so I can not provide any real experiences, sorry.
Yes, you will find the remark on the installation orientation under the following link to the Ellison website:
http://ellison-fluid-systems.com/app-orientation.shtml
The reason for the transverse orientation was probably the same instruction that you have read. As I'm currently on vacation, I do not have everything on hand. But I believe, it was written in the Ellison manual. As the two units are technically very similar, this should apply as well to the Rotec TBI. But I had no reports from anyone that has tested both orientations.
On the other hand, the transverse mounting made the installation possible without adding bellcranks.
Our RV is still under construction, so I can not provide any real experiences, sorry.
Yes, you will find the remark on the installation orientation under the following link to the Ellison website:
http://ellison-fluid-systems.com/app-orientation.shtml
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Clouddancer
Well Known Member
Air sense tube nipple orientation
Dave
Thanks a lot for the information on the orientation of the air sense tube! Your reasoning seems logical. I suppose that I can rotate the backplate of the regulator. I will check that with Rotec.
Do you know the reason for the leaking diaphragme on the Rotec and/or the Ellison unit?
Thanks, Andreas
Dave
Thanks a lot for the information on the orientation of the air sense tube! Your reasoning seems logical. I suppose that I can rotate the backplate of the regulator. I will check that with Rotec.
Do you know the reason for the leaking diaphragme on the Rotec and/or the Ellison unit?
Thanks, Andreas
pitts flyer
Active Member
Below is the essence of our exchange about the leaky regulator diaphram. I am getting a replacement diaphram (and paying the postage to do so). I had purchased another Rotec for my RV-4 project, so I had a spare regulator on hand, and have just installed it in the mean time. Pitts ran good again. Bottom line is I like the product when it works--when it works, it works well, but I have had some issues, and I don't care much for their customer service--the postage requirement and timeliness. YMMV......
Regarding the Ellison I had a about 8 years ago, at the time I didn't know what the problem was, only the symtoms, so I sent it to Ellison as they requested, and they fixed it right away. They said water had gotten into the diaphram area--nobody knows how. I think it was a leaky diaphram and it was fuel, but they fixed it and sent it back with no charge, and quite prompt service too as I recall.
My e-mail exchange with Rotec below:
Mon 9/16/2013 6:54 PM
Hi David,
It will take you 5mins to give that centre rivet a few extra taps and peen it over a little more. Then the issue will be solved. A much easier path.
But If you would like us to send you out a new diaphragm we will under warranty but the old diaphragm will need to be sent back. Shipping of the new parts is not covered under warranty and will need to be paid by yourself.
Kindest regards,
Paul Chernikeeff
Technical Director
From: David Magaw [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, 17 September 2013 7:47 AM
To: 'Paul Chernikeeff'; [email protected]
Subject: RE: Fuel in sense tube
Paul,
I have given this a lot of thought. I don’t believe that I should have to repair a defect in manufacturing such as this is, or have to make the tools to do it—or pay someone to do it for me. I think you should send me a diaphragm that is correctly assembled/made. There is a chance that I will mess up the fix or it won’t work for some reason or another—and as a customer, I don’t think I should have to make this type of a fix. Therefore I am requesting that you send to me a non-defective diaphragm, and I will install it.
By the way, this is the second defect that this TBI has had. The first was the idle circuit was not made properly and I had to send it back to you (and pay all the postage too). It now only has 30 hours on it, and another defect.
Thank you,
David Magaw
Sacramento, CA USA
From: Paul Chernikeeff [mailto[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 1:47 AM
To: 'Dave Magaw'; [email protected]
Subject: RE: Fuel in sense tube
HI Dave,
I have seen this before, its an assemble error. What is happening is the rivet that hold the support plate to the rubber diaphragm is not firm enough. The rivet need to be peened just a little more then the leak will stop, Its an easy fix.
Use compressed air to pop the top of the regulator off. Don’t pry the lid off, you will damage the surfaces and risk puncturing the diaphragm.
See attached how to peen the centre rivet more. You will need to drill a small hole is a peace of stock to support the small pip on the back side, see attached. [there were pictures attached to this e-mail showing what he described]
Kindest regards,
Paul Chernikeeff
Technical Director
From: Dave Magaw <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 6:35 PM
Subject: Fuel in sense tube
To: [email protected]
I have been noticing that I am getting fuel in the sense tube--in the yellow tube between the TBI (see installation picture attached) and the regulator. Also, the other day, the engine would not run right at full throttle (like for take-off), and sputtered at full throttle such that I aborted a take-off. It did the same when I tried full throttle again with static run-ups. When I pulled the tube off of the regulator, it drained some fuel, and when I pushed the button on the regulator, more fuel came out of the regulator. After draining this fuel, I was then able to make a flight with no problems on takeoff or in the flight, but more fuel was in the tube after that approximately 20 minute flight. I think that there is not supposed to be fuel in this tube or that side of the regulator. How is fuel getting in there and is this normal??
Dave Magaw
Pitts N55DP
Sacramento, CA, USA
Regarding the Ellison I had a about 8 years ago, at the time I didn't know what the problem was, only the symtoms, so I sent it to Ellison as they requested, and they fixed it right away. They said water had gotten into the diaphram area--nobody knows how. I think it was a leaky diaphram and it was fuel, but they fixed it and sent it back with no charge, and quite prompt service too as I recall.
My e-mail exchange with Rotec below:
Mon 9/16/2013 6:54 PM
Hi David,
It will take you 5mins to give that centre rivet a few extra taps and peen it over a little more. Then the issue will be solved. A much easier path.
But If you would like us to send you out a new diaphragm we will under warranty but the old diaphragm will need to be sent back. Shipping of the new parts is not covered under warranty and will need to be paid by yourself.
Kindest regards,
Paul Chernikeeff
Technical Director
From: David Magaw [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, 17 September 2013 7:47 AM
To: 'Paul Chernikeeff'; [email protected]
Subject: RE: Fuel in sense tube
Paul,
I have given this a lot of thought. I don’t believe that I should have to repair a defect in manufacturing such as this is, or have to make the tools to do it—or pay someone to do it for me. I think you should send me a diaphragm that is correctly assembled/made. There is a chance that I will mess up the fix or it won’t work for some reason or another—and as a customer, I don’t think I should have to make this type of a fix. Therefore I am requesting that you send to me a non-defective diaphragm, and I will install it.
By the way, this is the second defect that this TBI has had. The first was the idle circuit was not made properly and I had to send it back to you (and pay all the postage too). It now only has 30 hours on it, and another defect.
Thank you,
David Magaw
Sacramento, CA USA
From: Paul Chernikeeff [mailto
[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 1:47 AM
To: 'Dave Magaw'; [email protected]
Subject: RE: Fuel in sense tube
HI Dave,
I have seen this before, its an assemble error. What is happening is the rivet that hold the support plate to the rubber diaphragm is not firm enough. The rivet need to be peened just a little more then the leak will stop, Its an easy fix.
Use compressed air to pop the top of the regulator off. Don’t pry the lid off, you will damage the surfaces and risk puncturing the diaphragm.
See attached how to peen the centre rivet more. You will need to drill a small hole is a peace of stock to support the small pip on the back side, see attached. [there were pictures attached to this e-mail showing what he described]
Kindest regards,
Paul Chernikeeff
Technical Director
From: Dave Magaw <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 6:35 PM
Subject: Fuel in sense tube
To: [email protected]
I have been noticing that I am getting fuel in the sense tube--in the yellow tube between the TBI (see installation picture attached) and the regulator. Also, the other day, the engine would not run right at full throttle (like for take-off), and sputtered at full throttle such that I aborted a take-off. It did the same when I tried full throttle again with static run-ups. When I pulled the tube off of the regulator, it drained some fuel, and when I pushed the button on the regulator, more fuel came out of the regulator. After draining this fuel, I was then able to make a flight with no problems on takeoff or in the flight, but more fuel was in the tube after that approximately 20 minute flight. I think that there is not supposed to be fuel in this tube or that side of the regulator. How is fuel getting in there and is this normal??
Dave Magaw
Pitts N55DP
Sacramento, CA, USA
TIPSYNIPPER
Active Member
Progress please?
Hi Guys,
Thank you for those posting on this subject.
I have just bought an RV4 (O320 160hp) which I want to fit inverted systems to. Some Q's please?
1. Any further comment on carb' orientation (across or fwd/aft)?
2. Service difficulties/problems?
3. Suggestions?
4. Ellison or Rotec?
5. Mogas or Avgas?
Thanks in advance.
Neil
Hi Guys,
Thank you for those posting on this subject.
I have just bought an RV4 (O320 160hp) which I want to fit inverted systems to. Some Q's please?
1. Any further comment on carb' orientation (across or fwd/aft)?
2. Service difficulties/problems?
3. Suggestions?
4. Ellison or Rotec?
5. Mogas or Avgas?
Thanks in advance.
Neil
Hi Neil,
I'll be interested to hear what happens if you go down the Rotec TBI route.
I have purchased a partially completed RV-4 kit in the States and will be shipping it to the UK next month. I have also purchased a Rotec TBI although I am at least a couple of years away from fitting it.
Regards,
Simon
I'll be interested to hear what happens if you go down the Rotec TBI route.
I have purchased a partially completed RV-4 kit in the States and will be shipping it to the UK next month. I have also purchased a Rotec TBI although I am at least a couple of years away from fitting it.
Regards,
Simon
Vansrv7arob
Well Known Member
I've collected a heap on info on the Rotec send me a PM and i can email what i have through to you.
TIPSYNIPPER
Active Member
Progress please?
Hi Guys,
I have a Rotec on order for my RV4, how are you guys getting on please?
Best wishes,
Neil
Hi Guys,
I have a Rotec on order for my RV4, how are you guys getting on please?
Best wishes,
Neil
Hi Neil,
My Rotec TBI should be arriving sometime in the next couple of weeks along with my aeroplane and engine.
I am some way off fitting it to the aircraft as there is quite a bit of aeroplane to complete first. However it might be worth collaborating when it comes to putting a mod through the LAA.
Simon
My Rotec TBI should be arriving sometime in the next couple of weeks along with my aeroplane and engine.
I am some way off fitting it to the aircraft as there is quite a bit of aeroplane to complete first. However it might be worth collaborating when it comes to putting a mod through the LAA.
Simon
Tony Spicer
Well Known Member
Rotec sez:
The Rotec TBI Fuel System can run on both aviation gasoline (Avgas) and automotive gasoline (Mogas). However it should be noted that vapor lock is far more prevalent with auto fuels compared to Avgas.
And for what it's worth, Ellison no longer manufactures TB's.
Tony
The Rotec TBI Fuel System can run on both aviation gasoline (Avgas) and automotive gasoline (Mogas). However it should be noted that vapor lock is far more prevalent with auto fuels compared to Avgas.
And for what it's worth, Ellison no longer manufactures TB's.
Tony
My son has a Rotec TBI on his RV-4. It's been on over a year.
He added an inverted oil system, and the Rotec TBI so he could fly upside down.
It's been so reliable he hardly mentions it anymore.
So I bought one for my T-18, but I'm changing engines in my RV-8, so that's on hold.
He added an inverted oil system, and the Rotec TBI so he could fly upside down.
It's been so reliable he hardly mentions it anymore.
So I bought one for my T-18, but I'm changing engines in my RV-8, so that's on hold.
TIPSYNIPPER
Active Member
Rotec and Mods
As soon as I get my Rotec I will start fabrication of the parts and start posting pics. Thank you all for posting your experiences and installations.
I do not believe the fitting of the Rotec requires a Mod application, as it falls under the "firewall forward" principal of the LAA:
http://www.partsforaircraft.co.uk/downloads/laa- when a mod is not required.pdf
I will be pursuing the application for the use of Mogas, and to that end will fit the same as I had in the Nipper which was a vapour return line back to one fuel tank via a restrictor. Currently on the RV4 I am seeing temp's at the carb' of about 45degC after landing, and about 30degC in flight. The carb' is being blown air off of the engine and exhaust sitting at the bottom of the cowl, and the only way I see of resolving the high temp's is to fit a "skirt" around the top of the air filter and have a fresh air supply from the front of the intake baffles to keep it cool.
I have fitted the Vans fuel pump shroud which has reduced fuel pump temp's from 30-45 degC to about 20-25, but again on the ground it increases to about 30. My next mod to the shroud is to fit a bottom cover to it which will have a fresh air hose fitted also.
For temporary data collection I use cheap fish tank digital thermometers from ebay, I can move the sensors around to get what I need. The one on the fuel pump is mounted in a aluminium sandwich plate bolted to the bottom face of the pump.
I have fitted Christen inverted oil now, and have just received clearance from the LAA to do the aerobatic clearance flights so am looking forward to some neg' G!! (but I really don't like it when the engine stops producing noise!)
Neil
http://s98.photobucket.com/user/Tipsynipper/media/12052014030_zps6de582ee.jpg.html
As soon as I get my Rotec I will start fabrication of the parts and start posting pics. Thank you all for posting your experiences and installations.
I do not believe the fitting of the Rotec requires a Mod application, as it falls under the "firewall forward" principal of the LAA:
http://www.partsforaircraft.co.uk/downloads/laa- when a mod is not required.pdf
I will be pursuing the application for the use of Mogas, and to that end will fit the same as I had in the Nipper which was a vapour return line back to one fuel tank via a restrictor. Currently on the RV4 I am seeing temp's at the carb' of about 45degC after landing, and about 30degC in flight. The carb' is being blown air off of the engine and exhaust sitting at the bottom of the cowl, and the only way I see of resolving the high temp's is to fit a "skirt" around the top of the air filter and have a fresh air supply from the front of the intake baffles to keep it cool.
I have fitted the Vans fuel pump shroud which has reduced fuel pump temp's from 30-45 degC to about 20-25, but again on the ground it increases to about 30. My next mod to the shroud is to fit a bottom cover to it which will have a fresh air hose fitted also.
For temporary data collection I use cheap fish tank digital thermometers from ebay, I can move the sensors around to get what I need. The one on the fuel pump is mounted in a aluminium sandwich plate bolted to the bottom face of the pump.
I have fitted Christen inverted oil now, and have just received clearance from the LAA to do the aerobatic clearance flights so am looking forward to some neg' G!! (but I really don't like it when the engine stops producing noise!)
Neil
http://s98.photobucket.com/user/Tipsynipper/media/12052014030_zps6de582ee.jpg.html
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