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Help Me Value This RV-7A

StuBob

Well Known Member
A buddy is considering selling his RV7A, which was finished about 10 years ago. Here's the data to the best of my knowledge:

TT1000 or somewhat less
Avionics/Instruments:
IFD 540. Some audio panel, a Comm 2 with no GPS. Mode C for sure, maybe ADS-B.
TruTrak autopilot coupled to ADI.
King HSI
GRT EIS -- the basic LCD version.
Manual Trim
IFR certification and Condition Inspection up to date.

Engine: O-320, 2000 SMOH. Came out of a Mooney.
Prop: Catto 3-blade composite with nickel leading edges.

The paint is fine, not show-winning. The interior is standard Van's tweed.

1)Assuming I've presented it fairly, what's a ballpark figure for this airplane? What if I have the engine wrong and it's an O-360? Either way, I'm certain about the time.

2) How would you evaluate the health of this engine? All of my ownership is with big-bore Continentals. These Lycoming 4's are a little mysterious.

Thanks in advance!
 
Low 50's, depending on build quality. Engine is nothing more than a core at this point, value wise.
 
Low 50's, depending on build quality. Engine is nothing more than a core at this point, value wise.

That's what I was thinking too, but that's what it would be worth to me, and I've been seeing some crazy 'asking' prices out there!

-Marc
 
Any contrary opinions?

I was thinking more or less the same thing.

How would you evaluate this engine? "It's running great," after all, "I wouldn't hesitate to take off and cross the Rockies tomorrow with it." Whatever. No matter how well it's running today, it's 2000 hours closer to failure than it was at overhaul!

I'm not a big fan of oil analysis, as it seems no one knows how many false negatives and false positives there are. Four weeks before overhaul, the 500 SMOH engine in my Bonanza "appear[ed] to be aging like a fine wine," according to Blackstone.

On the big Continentals, borescope is important because the valves are generally the first things to go. For the same reason, increasing oil consumption is worth noting. But my understanding on the Lycoming 4's is that the camshaft is the weak link. I doubt the owner will let me pull a jug to look at it. Any other ideas?

Thanks as always.
 
How would you evaluate this engine? "It's running great," after all, "I wouldn't hesitate to take off and cross the Rockies tomorrow with it." Whatever. No matter how well it's running today, it's 2000 hours closer to failure than it was at overhaul!
Very true. I have been told that some engines go well past 2000 hours before they need an overhaul, if they have been treated well. How common is that? We really don't know. However, "well past TBO" usually seems to mean a couple-few hundred hours, it's not like you're not going to be pulling that engine within the next few years.
I'm not a big fan of oil analysis, as it seems no one knows how many false negatives and false positives there are. Four weeks before overhaul, the 500 SMOH engine in my Bonanza "appear[ed] to be aging like a fine wine," according to Blackstone.
And did it wear out or break in those four weeks, or did you simply not believe the report? I'm just curious. As a new airplane owner, I plan to do regular oil analysis on my engine so I'm always looking for others' experiences.

As for the value, if the build quality is good and the paint is something you can live with long term, I don't disagree with the other opinions.
 
Value

An airplane is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it.

That being said,
I would continue to fly that engine as long as oil analysis, compression checks, and perhaps borescope inspections are completed. BUT, in terms of value in a sale, it would substantially devalue the aircraft.

Other things to consider:
I have been looking for an RV7 for several months. There is almost nothing on the market. Thus enhancing the value of any offerings.
There is some value in the panel. The IFD 540 is worth $10K by itself.

Depending on the appearance and construction quality, I'd advertise this airplane in the $65-70K range. You can always lower the price. You might get lucky and find an A&P who can do the overhaul and doesn't really care that much about the hours on the engine.
 
And did it wear out or break in those four weeks, or did you simply not believe the report? I'm just curious. As a new airplane owner, I plan to do regular oil analysis on my engine so I'm always looking for others' experiences.

On the IO-520's, the alternator connects directly to the crankshaft by a ring gear inside the crankcase. We pulled the alternator at annual for preventive maintenance and found excessive wear on the ring gear. There was a small amount of metal in the filter, but nothing to get excited about ordinarily -- certainly no readable part numbers, as the received wisdom goes. At teardown, both the crankshaft and the camshaft failed spec and had to be replaced. All with a totally normal oil analysis. So I'm not a fan. Obviously, it's just one data point and everyone has his own anecdote, but that's mine.
 
I had looked at the same airplane. I believe the seller is a good man and he said that he would not be afraid to fly it anywhere. I agree that the engine is doing well now. But, at some time the engine is going to need a overhaul. If I bought it now whenever I was ready sell it the engine would have to be done. I chose not to make the purchase for that reason. At that time the seller was not willing to lower the price. Someone is going to have to foot the price of an engine. Who?
Dave
 
...
How would you evaluate this engine? "It's running great," after all, "I wouldn't hesitate to take off and cross the Rockies tomorrow with it." Whatever. No matter how well it's running today, it's 2000 hours closer to failure than it was at overhaul!
...
Thanks as always.
The problem is that a new owner will not know the history of the engine or how well it has been running for the last 1000 hours and simply won't trust it and will want to replace it.

The other issue is that the O-320 is not a "desirable" engine in the -7. To maximize the selling price you really need a 360, fuel injection, CS prop, slider and the little wheel needs to be up front.

The panel is a bit dated, which also hurts the resale value.
 
I had looked at the same airplane. I believe the seller is a good man and he said that he would not be afraid to fly it anywhere. I agree that the engine is doing well now. But, at some time the engine is going to need a overhaul. If I bought it now whenever I was ready sell it the engine would have to be done. I chose not to make the purchase for that reason. At that time the seller was not willing to lower the price. Someone is going to have to foot the price of an engine. Who?
Dave
I agree he's a good man and I think it's a good airplane. I don't mean to disparage either in any way.

Looking at asking prices on Barnstormers, the local consensus might be a little low. But some of those listings have been up for a while. I wish I had access to selling prices.
 
...snipped.....

Engine: O-320, 2000 SMOH. Came out of a Mooney.
Prop: Catto 3-blade composite with nickel leading edges.

I could be quite incorrect, but I have never seen a Mooney with an O-320. My guess is that it is an O-360-A1A. I agree that value wise the engine is almost done and is worth near core value. That number is predicated on the engine's total time, and scope of the last overhaul. First run?...Chance the crank may be good and reusable. More than one overhaul, and the crank is already undersized at overhaul? Possibly not! That is a high dollar item that you should budget for in an overhaul.
 
I could be quite incorrect, but I have never seen a Mooney with an O-320. My guess is that it is an O-360-A1A. I agree that value wise the engine is almost done and is worth near core value. That number is predicated on the engine's total time, and scope of the last overhaul. First run?...Chance the crank may be good and reusable. More than one overhaul, and the crank is already undersized at overhaul? Possibly not! That is a high dollar item that you should budget for in an overhaul.

The only Mooneys to use the O-320 were the original "straight" M20 with only about 200 built. The M20A went to the O-360 in 1958.
 
The only Mooneys to use the O-320 were the original "straight" M20 with only about 200 built. The M20A went to the O-360 in 1958.

With only 200 built, I guess I was not "quite" incorrect. But none the less incorrect!
Thanks for the info, Mel. I had no idea that early Mooneys had O-320's.
 
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Keep it simple for the buyer

Setting price is secondary to attracting a qualified buyer.
When selling a house you will get the best possible price by cleaning it up and
taking care of any and all issues that might make a potential buyer walk away.

You must know the type of buyer you are looking for.
More than likely, it will be a "newbie" who is coming over to the "dark" side of
home built aviation and someone not very familiar with RVs and engines.
What he wants is an airplane he can fly and do a little bit of maintenance as he gets familiar with the new airplane.
Having to deal with a engine overhaul will keep most of them away, unless you can offer your plane for a very attractive price.
It is very unlikely that a seasoned RV builder will be wanting to buy your plane
unless he is business oriented and can see a profit by buying your plane and doing all the work involved to get your engine overhauled.
That person will have a price in mind and needs no education in what it might cost to get it done.

To sum it up, choose your buyer and set the price and condition of the airplane accordingly.
 
A little digging reveals that the engine is, in fact, an O-360-A1A.

Does that affect the consensus price?
 
How old is this engine?
What was the date of the last overhaul?
How many times has the engine been overhauled?
Is it a fixed pitch Prop?
Is it ADSB out?
When was the last overhaul on carb and magnetos?
Has the prop ever been balanced?
How many hours has the plane been flown in the last 12 months?
How old is the sparkplug wiring harness?
How much oil does it burn per hour?
Does it have an oil filter?
Has there been a top over haul in the past 2000 hrs?
How old is the battery?
How old is the starter and alternator?
How old are the tires and brakes?
When was the last transponder Check?
How old is the HSI?
How much does the owner have invested in the plane?

Not to beat up on you but these are the things I want to know when
Considering a buy. They all cost money especially if I can't do it myself.;)

$50,000 sounds about right. But I would list it for$65,000 and work down from
there depending on how many offers come in.
 
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A flying, painted, O-360 powered, autopiloted, IFR RV-7A for $50k? Seems low to me. Granted the engine and avionics aren't new, but I haven't seen a decent RV-7 sell for that low. I would think no less than $65k.
 
How old is this engine?
What was the date of the last overhaul?
How many times has the engine been overhauled?
Is it a fixed pitch Prop?
Is it ADSB out?
When was the last overhaul on carb and magnetos?
Has the prop ever been balanced?
How many hours has the plane been flown in the last 12 months?
How old is the sparkplug wiring harness?
How much oil does it burn per hour?
Does it have an oil filter?
Has there been a top over haul in the past 2000 hrs?
How old is the battery?
How old is the starter and alternator?
How old are the tires and brakes?
When was the last transponder Check?
How old is the HSI?
How much does the owner have invested in the plane?

Not to beat up on you but these are the things I want to know when
Considering a buy. They all cost money especially if I can't do it myself.;)

$50,000 sounds about right. But I would list it for$65,000 and work down from
there depending on who many offers come in.

I like this list except for "how much does the owner have invested in it."

Been selling cars, boats and houses. etc for my whole life. I've seen people get things from grandma for $400 and people balk at $3000 selling price, because they knew what they paid. Silly thing is it was worth $20,000 so who lost out?

Then I've seen guys hang on to something, because it wasn't worth what they had into it, most ended up owning those items til they weren't worth anything at all. IE. typical plane sitting on every field in America on flat tires. Lol

IMHO-The value is the value has nothing to do with what someone has into an item While it may help you decide on a sell or no sell rescission it's got. Itching to do with value.


There's deals out there, (for those willing to wait) might need a little elbow grease and there's perfect examples that command top dollar because some people make enough not to be bothered with elbow grease. I'd say to a savvy buyer 50k is a great price. Your average person would pay more but that's going to be a small market with 2000 since TBO and will take time to sell.
Really it All depends on how much of a rush the seller is in where they should market it price wise. I'd put value at $50k to $65k after looking at them myself for a year. $65k being the right guy at the right time who just loves everything about it.
 
While the panel may be dated the IFD 540 and HSI are worth quite a bit on their own. I might be tempted to part it out or change the panel if all you can only get $50k for it. Many buyers don't consider a timed out engine to be a problem as they want a fresh overhaul anyway.

I'd be asking $60-70k.
 
I spent the last year Looking at many versions of the RV7. I helped a buddy purchase one and bought one for myself.

An RV 7 with a medium to low time 0320 with this type of panel will bring about 60-65k if it's a very good build with decent interior. This engine will soon need an overhaul and anyone buying one with a similar engine time (I undstand it could go a few hundred hours more) should assume that will be required very soon. Deduct about 75% of the price of an overhaul from the 60-65k and you have a ball park value.

I just noticed the post that the engine is an 0360. The airplane I helped my friend buy was an 0360 with 450 SNEW, steam gauge panel, good paint and interior, 65k. I would add 5 k for the panel and do the same math. 65-70k minus 75% of the overhaul cost on the 0360.
 
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Rwtalbot

Now is that US dollars or Aust dollars :D

I just looked at the price I was willing to pay and it was all about what I thought I would do to get my new RV 8 up to my desired level/ finish.

New engine, prop and paint costs - and I added it onto the advertised price to see if I was willing to pay that total. A bit like parting out in reverse :D
 
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