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  #1  
Old Yesterday, 10:29 PM
Muuvie Muuvie is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Richlands, NC
Posts: 8
Default Sale Prices

I came across a classifieds ad for a 15 year old RV-8 that was listed for sale for in the $110K's range with an O-360 at 40% to TBO. I don't want to post his page or go into specifics because I am not trying to start a flame war. I've been around several hobbies that feature expensive equipment transactions, most recently skydiving...and you don't criticize a selling point. If you think it's too high, just move on.

So the point of this is that I'm concerned I'm not being conservative enough in my own build plans. I'm trying to buy a empennage and wings kit next month based on the numbers I came up with myself and there is a discrepancy. At $25K for the aircraft, $33K for the A1B6, $4K for paint (I paint,) $9K for the CS Whirlwind prop and $15K for avionics, I'm looking at $82K as a baseline before any other mods. This almost $25K less than the selling price with a 0 time engine. Am I not accounting for something? I thought I was being fairly conservative, and I don't want to start down a rabbit hole I wasn't expecting.

Last edited by Muuvie : Yesterday at 10:32 PM.
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  #2  
Old Yesterday, 10:39 PM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 3,414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muuvie View Post
I came across a classifieds ad for a 15 year old RV-8 that was listed for sale for in the $110K's range with an O-360 at 40% to TBO. I don't want to post his page or go into specifics because I am not trying to start a flame war. I've been around several hobbies that feature expensive equipment transactions, most recently skydiving...and you don't criticize a selling point. If you think it's too high, just move on.

So the point of this is that I'm concerned I'm not being conservative enough in my own build plans. I'm trying to buy a empennage and wings kit next month based on the numbers I came up with myself and there is a discrepancy. At $25K for the aircraft, $33K for the A1B6, $4K for paint (I paint,) $9K for the CS Whirlwind prop and $15K for avionics, I'm looking at $82K as a baseline before any other mods. This almost $25K less than the selling price with a 0 time engine. Am I not accounting for something? I thought I was being fairly conservative, and I don't want to start down a rabbit hole I wasn't expecting.
There are a few other costs in the build (interior and tools, for example). But, let's be realistic, for the "finished airplane" premium of <$30k you can be flying tomorrow and spend your evenings and weekends out flying, as opposed to in the shop. The other factor is that prices are negotiable. Who's to say that airplane will sell for $110K?
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Atlanta, GA
2001 RV-6 N46KB
2019(?) RV-10
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  #3  
Old Today, 12:45 AM
Tommy123 Tommy123 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Naples fl
Posts: 86
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Thing about sale price is they can put any number out there they want, reasonable or not. Doesn't mean it will ever be sold at that price.
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  #4  
Old Today, 01:26 AM
Scott Hersha Scott Hersha is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 924
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Cost depends on build details. I donít know if you can get an IFR panel for $15K. I fact, Iím not sure you can get a VFR panel for that if itís glass with ADSB, maybe you can, but things get more expensive as time goes on, and if you start building today, you wont be finished for a couple years - if youíre good. $4K for paint might be possible if you do it yourself, but it will likely take you 3 months, and whatís that worth? Did you ad a FWF kit (over $5K)? Fiberglass supplies - easily north of $500? Lights - $2-3K conservitively. How about Ďmiscellaneousí that can easily top $5K (for misc hardware, fittings, electrical connectors, tools you didnít know you needed, beer, etc.), and the interior with seatbelts will be anywhere from $2K to $10K for a two seater. I just finished my third RV - an RV8 - and Iím at just under $124K for everything. Iíve kept detailed receipts for everything, including fuel to heat my hangar last winter. I have a single screen G3X touch, G5 backup, GTN 625, GNC 200 & 20, two axis autopilot, and a GTX ADSB transponder - so itís a nice, but basic IFR panel, but the point is, you should understand the total cost picture as close as you can before you decide to start a project like this (and it doesnít sound like you do at this point) and then ad at least 10%. Coming in under budget pleases the family and you. Coming in over can destroy it.
Good luck. Your second build - if you do one - will be better, but not less expensive.....
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RV-8
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  #5  
Old Today, 02:03 AM
Robin8er Robin8er is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Oahu HI
Posts: 236
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Van's are one of the few experimentals that sell for more than their components are worth.
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  #6  
Old Today, 04:46 AM
Capt Capt is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 235
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Before I brought my RV8 I briefly looked at building one, took about 5 mins to realise that unless you have the space, the time and accept the disruption to your life for years it's not for everyone, it was a no brainer for me, I bought a used plane and started flying the next day or so not started building! Each to their own of course but for me I saved $50K (approx $160K to finish one down under) and several years of " I wish I had bought one flying",
I got the Vans smile instantly, for that I didn't want to wait years! -
At the end of the day what 'price' do you put on your life/time?
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  #7  
Old Today, 07:11 AM
Muuvie Muuvie is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Richlands, NC
Posts: 8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hersha View Post
Cost depends on build details. I don’t know if you can get an IFR panel for $15K. I fact, I’m not sure you can get a VFR panel for that if it’s glass with ADSB, maybe you can, but things get more expensive as time goes on, and if you start building today, you wont be finished for a couple years - if you’re good. $4K for paint might be possible if you do it yourself, but it will likely take you 3 months, and what’s that worth? Did you ad a FWF kit (over $5K)? Fiberglass supplies - easily north of $500? Lights - $2-3K conservitively. How about ‘miscellaneous’ that can easily top $5K (for misc hardware, fittings, electrical connectors, tools you didn’t know you needed, beer, etc.), and the interior with seatbelts will be anywhere from $2K to $10K for a two seater. I just finished my third RV - an RV8 - and I’m at just under $124K for everything. I’ve kept detailed receipts for everything, including fuel to heat my hangar last winter. I have a single screen G3X touch, G5 backup, GTN 625, GNC 200 & 20, two axis autopilot, and a GTX ADSB transponder - so it’s a nice, but basic IFR panel, but the point is, you should understand the total cost picture as close as you can before you decide to start a project like this (and it doesn’t sound like you do at this point) and then ad at least 10%. Coming in under budget pleases the family and you. Coming in over can destroy it.
Good luck. Your second build - if you do one - will be better, but not less expensive.....
That's the reply I was afraid of, you've brought up a couple things I did not account for. At least I know I will not be building a Garmin cockpit, too rich for my blue blood, but I do believe an IFR panel is possible with Dynon and a used 430. If I have to bail on glass, then so be it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt View Post
Before I brought my RV8 I briefly looked at building one, took about 5 mins to realise that unless you have the space, the time and accept the disruption to your life for years it's not for everyone, it was a no brainer for me, I bought a used plane and started flying the next day or so not started building! Each to their own of course but for me I saved $50K (approx $160K to finish one down under) and several years of " I wish I had bought one flying",
I got the Vans smile instantly, for that I didn't want to wait years! -
At the end of the day what 'price' do you put on your life/time?
It makes sense to me. The two complications I have with buying were the level of trust required in purchasing an airplane someone built out of their hangar and the cost associated. I'm building because it will take two years and that's the only way I can afford it. When it's all said and done, I'll only owe on the engine and that will be a hard loan to get...

Last edited by Muuvie : Today at 07:15 AM.
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  #8  
Old Today, 07:50 AM
maniago's Avatar
maniago maniago is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Bowie MD
Posts: 703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin8er View Post
Van's are one of the few experimentals that sell for more than their components are worth.
The market has born out this truth. Why? Has to be market exposure and support, because they are not really that different from many other low wing metal planes in build techniques, construction, etal. But is what it is, and good on Van for being in the right place at the right time. Most all other EABs will go for 25 to 50cents on the build dollar, unless your looking at something really esoteric...like JN3 replica etc...

Still, OP you can see the 30/30/30 rule is a pretty good rule of thumb on build costs. As far as 2 yrs to complete a project, that depends on how close it is to where you live. If its in your living room (ie garage), and youre not married, yup you got it! If not, double and add 50%. Life happens. For sure, with building, its the journey, not the destination. If you're more motivated by the destination, forget it and buy cause you'll never finish a project. You'll buy in the end anyway. Just a hard truth.
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MustangII (FoldingWing) "FirewallFwd&sundries": IO360B1E,RSA,C2YR-BF/F7666-2,Superior sump,James; 2xHXr,MiniX,EIS,480,327,240,SL30,Navworx; SteamAlt,AS,VSI
Don't be a hater; I'm a cousin with thin wings!
N251Y (res)
Dec2017
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  #9  
Old Today, 07:57 AM
Muuvie Muuvie is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Richlands, NC
Posts: 8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maniago View Post
The market has born out this truth. Why? Has to be market exposure and support, because they are not really that different from many other low wing metal planes in build techniques, construction, etal. But is what it is, and good on Van for being in the right place at the right time. Most all other EABs will go for 25 to 50cents on the build dollar, unless your looking at something really esoteric...like JN3 replica etc...

Still, OP you can see the 30/30/30 rule is a pretty good rule of thumb on build costs. As far as 2 yrs to complete a project, that depends on how close it is to where you live. If its in your living room (ie garage), and youre not married, yup you got it! If not, double and add 50%. Life happens. For sure, with building, its the journey, not the destination. If you're more motivated by the destination, forget it and buy cause you'll never finish a project. You'll buy in the end anyway. Just a hard truth.
Garage!!
And before I even elected to have the kits mailed here vs. the airport, I checked with the county zoning office and they don't care about me eventually departing from the field in my backyard. I want the journey, I also want said journey to not have too many $5K surprises.
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  #10  
Old Today, 08:03 AM
Tankerpilot75 Tankerpilot75 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 327
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Prices are everywhere with RVs. So is build quality. So are engines, panels, avionics, interiors etc. The one constant is the decisions one makes when either building or buying. You either make good decisions or poor ones.

Remember when your building your also learning and that means a few mistakes and what you do to address those mistakes. If your buying (whether it’s a complete RV or the components to an RV) you’re trying to balance your needs, desires and affordability with unknowns such as remaining usefulness, fit and functionality, quality and price. Either way you go there’s going to be good and not so good decisions being made.

Remember, whether you build or purchase an RV eventually someone else will probably own it in the future. That means other people will inspect it and value it. What I’m getting at is the best way to own an RV is to always consider the next buyer in your decision making process. Their valuation will become your value someday. Be sure to consult “RV experts” whether you build a new one or buy one built by someone else. Get their opinion and advice of the decisions you make. It will save you both money and time.

As to affordability, consider outside financial assistance. There are many ways to afford a quality built airplane. AOPA has aircraft financing programs and so do other financial institutions. Personally I used a home equity loan (HELOC) and financed the purchase over a self decided five year period. Cheapest interest available with flexible pay back options because I could decide each month how much over the minimum requirement I could pay that month to reach my payoff date goal.

Decisions, decisions! You must decide.
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IO-360, Hartzel CS prop, Older Aerotronics built panel Dual GRT Horizon WS, Garmin 340, 335, Dual 430s, Stratux hard wired to WS, Dynon D10A (backup EFIS)
Retired - Living the dream - And going broke!
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