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Possible AD for certain NAVWORX ADS-B Units

NavWorx ADS-B units with P/N 200-0112 and 200-0113 are TSO-C154c compliant and are not the subject of this proposed AD.

Really? Can you supply us a url to that source?


Update: Correct those are not.
But, Model ADS600-B part number (P/N) 200-0012 and 200-0013 and Model ADS600-EXP P/N 200-8013 are the subject of the potential AD.
 
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NAVWORX is back and running as of this evening but nothing new news-wise.

Nothing available to purchase but install down loads are available.

I have one just in case he ships one of these days. :)
 
I sent this simple email request off yesterday:

Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 12:10 PM
To: Cobble, Kyle (FAA); Heusser, Michael A (FAA)
Subject: NavWorx AD Status

What?s the status of the potential AD for NavWorx? Docket FAA-2016-9226, Directorate Identifier 2016-SW-065-AD

When can we expect something to be published?


I received this response a few minutes ago:

Mr. Leffler,
We try to finish the AD?s within 90 days. This AD had many comments and we have had to coordinate with several offices. I can?t give an exact date, but we are working to issue the final rule as soon as possible.


Kyle Cobble
Fort Worth ACO
817-222-5172


Based upon this response, it's doubtful we'll see anything until after OSH.
 
I sent this simple email request off yesterday:

Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 12:10 PM
To: Cobble, Kyle (FAA); Heusser, Michael A (FAA)
Subject: NavWorx AD Status

What’s the status of the potential AD for NavWorx? Docket FAA-2016-9226, Directorate Identifier 2016-SW-065-AD

When can we expect something to be published?


I received this response a few minutes ago:

Mr. Leffler,
We try to finish the AD’s within 90 days. This AD had many comments and we have had to coordinate with several offices. I can’t give an exact date, but we are working to issue the final rule as soon as possible.


Kyle Cobble
Fort Worth ACO
817-222-5172


Based upon this response, it's doubtful we'll see anything until after OSH.

Since the SIL is so critical to public safety, :rolleyes:, I would think they would expedite & prioritize their decision.

It's already been 5 months since the announcement & 3 months since the end of their comment period.

I was hoping they'd have a resolution by SNF.
We should all become active in their ADS-B discussions at SNF.
 
Since the SIL is so critical to public safety, :rolleyes:, I would think they would expedite & prioritize their decision.

It's already been 5 months since the announcement & 3 months since the end of their comment period.

I was hoping they'd have a resolution by SNF.
We should all become active in their ADS-B discussions at SNF.

I continue to be disappointed when AOPA and other representatives don't press the FAA to answer questions such as why drones are allowed/encouraged to use cheap OUT devices in the interest of safety, and experimentals that are allowed to use different categories of OUT devices, vs. certificated, i.e., the Navworx fiasco. It's just a big mess that cannot be defended. I won't be at SNF but surely hope the FAA is bombarded with common sense questions from pilots and other groups on this issue.
 
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why drones are allowed/encouraged to use cheap OUT devices in the interest of safety, and experimentals that are allowed to use different categories of OUT devices, vs. certificated, i.e., the Navworx fiasco. It's just a big mess that cannot be defended.

A drone cannot use a non-compliant ADS-B OUT device to fly in 2020 airspace. The FAA encourages drones to equip with advisory only GPS position sources when flying in places where ADS-B is not required at all. They do the same for all aircraft in non-2020 airspace, and in fact there is a TSO for these advisory beacons (TSO-C199) which is significantly cheaper to comply with than the full compliant systems.

You can absolutely put non-compliant ADS-B on your EAB, you just can't fly into 2020 airspace with it, and you can't transmit misleading signals (inappropriate SIL/SDA for instance). In fact, thousands of EAB's are flying with "cheap" ADS-B devices with no issues from the FAA because they aren't claiming to be compliant in their transmissions.

The only issue would be if somehow the FAA said that a drone could fly in 2020 airspace with any GPS onboard, but only manned aircraft needed compliant GPS's. They aren't doing that though, and are holding all aircraft to the exact same standard, so I don't see an issue.
 
I think a lot of this compliant / non compliant, TSO d position source/ meets C199 performance standards , SIL 3 / or 1, SDA 2 /or 0, Experimental equipment inside 2020 compliant area / Certified aircraft equipment inside 2020 compliant area ; ALL this may get redefined after the NavWorx AD becomes final whenever that may be. After all, this is what all of this has been about. Maybe if the FAA can decide what it is they want, the mfgs can produce that and make it available. Not sure we're there yet. All I know is I'm not buying again until they decide and you can write that on the wall!
 
Makes my head hurt just reading this stuff - way too complicated and it doesn't have to be. We have big airliners over my house at 7000' flying into a C, and smaller regionals flying into the local E, both in non 2020 airspace. I threaten them equally as an experimental, drone, or certificated flying machine and can't see where position resolution or even reliability is relevant. I know the ADS-B debate is long over, but quick obsolescence is imminent unless the system/regs are constantly changed.

But I agree the Navworx issue has probably brought these issues front and center.
 
Dynon/AFS

If this does not get resolved in the favor of those of us who have already installed the EXP version of Navworx, would the new Dynon/AFS work as a replacement? I have the AFS 5600 EFIS. If it would swap out, it looks like one of the most viable options in my situation. I have a GTX-327 transponder.

Thanks,
John
 
Hi John, I have the 5000 series AFS as well. This 470/472 is the IN only part of the Dynon ADSB which works very well as I have the 470 version currently. For the OUT I have the AFS/Dynon remote transponder which is 1090 out and very happy with the it too. Hopefully NavWorx will get their act together so no changes are necessary for you but I think you would need both units from Dynon or AFS. Larry
 
Hi John, I have the 5000 series AFS as well. This 470/472 is the IN only part of the Dynon ADSB which works very well as I have the 470 version currently. For the OUT I have the AFS/Dynon remote transponder which is 1090 out and very happy with the it too. Hopefully NavWorx will get their act together so no changes are necessary for you but I think you would need both units from Dynon or AFS. Larry

I see. I was concerned that would be the case. Thanks for the clarification. If Dynon/AFS would offer a trade in allowance for the Navworx/GTX, I would think that would be a popular alternative if the Navworx issue goes south. Hopefully, it won't and all of us happy Navworx customers will stay happy!

John
RV-8
 
I'm still waiting another year or so.

Things seem to improve on an "order of magnitude" basis in electronics.

JMHO, YMMV.
 
FYI......

I submitted an email to Navworx support this morning and got a reply from Bill within five minutes.

It might be luck, but I was pleasantly surprised. He made some other commitments to me, that I won't share, but they were very positive and well received.

He did acknowledge the Display 2 out issue and said it would be fixed in the next software release. He didn't state when the release would be available.

Just thought I would share some positive news........
 
Thanks, Bob

Hoping for the best --- very happy with my EXP, and I have two (2) perfect reports from the FAA, in my files.

Ron
 
I scrounged an iPhone running iOS 9.x a few days ago, downloaded v1.5 of the EXP app and upgraded the firmware in my EXP from 5.62 to 5.70, the result of which is my iPad now communicating more reliably with the EXP. Apparently there was some sort of issue with the app and iOS 10.x, now resolved. In any case my EXP continues to perform, feeding my GRT Sport, which I prefer to look at over the iPad. I wish the best for continued success to NavWorx, I'm very happy with the product.
 
I scrounged an iPhone running iOS 9.x a few days ago, downloaded v1.5 of the EXP app and upgraded the firmware in my EXP from 5.62 to 5.70, the result of which is my iPad now communicating more reliably with the EXP. Apparently there was some sort of issue with the app and iOS 10.x, now resolved. In any case my EXP continues to perform, feeding my GRT Sport, which I prefer to look at over the iPad. I wish the best for continued success to NavWorx, I'm very happy with the product.

I'm running the original software that came with my -EXP 2 yrs ago. I got a perfect report from the FAA check. I'm a strong believer in "don't mess with success". Why should a person "update" software for the -EXP?
 
I'm running the original software that came with my -EXP 2 yrs ago. I got a perfect report from the FAA check. I'm a strong believer in "don't mess with success". Why should a person "update" software for the -EXP?

The FAA only cares about ADSB-out. The previous poster said a software update improved communication to his iPad; e.g., ADSB-in.
 
WiFi

I'm running the original software that came with my -EXP 2 yrs ago. I got a perfect report from the FAA check. I'm a strong believer in "don't mess with success". Why should a person "update" software for the -EXP?

Updated software on my May 2016 delivered EXP in October to 5.6.3 , a month after install. WiFi connectivity to my iPad was cranky before the update, but rock solid after. FAA reports were perfect before and after the software update.
 
The FAA only cares about ADSB-out. The previous poster said a software update improved communication to his iPad; e.g., ADSB-in.

What Bob said. "In" communication to my iPad was flakey, the upgrade solved the problem. I didn't request an "Out" report from the FAA after the upgrade, presumably it's unaffected.

For anyone wanting to upgrade to firmware 5.70 using the Apple app written by AllThumbs, there is a gotcha that took me a few minutes to grasp: it apparently won't work if the app is on a device running iOS 10.x. You need to run the app on a device running iOS 9.x; after the upgrade to 5.70 that is supposedly no longer an issue. Lucky me my son's iPad (that I paid for) was available.
 
Bob Leffler - thanks for the update...hopefully, I'll get a response soon on my unit in for repairs. Things appear to be happening there! Mine is in for Non-AD related repairs although I expect that they'll do what is necessary to be in compliance with the AD before shipping it back - maybe causing the delay. It has been there for about three weeks now and they did acknowledge receipt.
 
Bob Leffler - thanks for the update...hopefully, I'll get a response soon on my unit in for repairs. Things appear to be happening there! Mine is in for Non-AD related repairs although I expect that they'll do what is necessary to be in compliance with the AD before shipping it back - maybe causing the delay. It has been there for about three weeks now and they did acknowledge receipt.

Mine is going back tomorrow for another round, which isn't ad related. My display port 1 appears to be totally dead. Other than that, the unit it working fine.

I've had several email exchanges with Bill over the last few days. He stated he isn't going to SnF so he should be able to turn things promptly. He didn't define promptly. I'm hoping mine doesn't take three weeks.

He also stated that the display 2 issue will be resolved in the next release. He didn't give a date, but implied it would be shortly.
 
I am unable to update my ADS600EXP to firmware version 5.7, even when using my old iPad running software 9.3.5. My new iPad mini with software version 10.xx works OK in flight most of the time, but won't perform the update either. The in flight functionality on my iPad mini using Foreflight is spotty - sometimes it doesn't work at all. I'm thinking, if I could get this new firmware load, it might work OK. During the update it starts out OK, but then says "update failed" or something like that. After re-booting as suggested, it starts again, only to fail again. After going through this many times, it finally just kind of froze on the failed message. Clicking 'OK' only momentarily removed the failed window, and then it reappears instantly. The failed window is preventing me from doing anything else on the app. I don't know what firmware version I'm running, and I don't know how to find out. I guess I have whatever firmware was on it when it was delivered last fall. I've tried to update 2 other firmware versions before and they didn't work either, at least I don't think they did - no way of knowing as far as I can tell. If anyone has a method to update NavWorx that works, please share it here for all of us. I did pose the question/problem to NavWorx. Hopefully someone here or there will have an answer.
 
I am unable to update my ADS600EXP to firmware version 5.7, even when using my old iPad running software 9.3.5. My new iPad mini with software version 10.xx works OK in flight most of the time, but won't perform the update either. The in flight functionality on my iPad mini using Foreflight is spotty - sometimes it doesn't work at all. I'm thinking, if I could get this new firmware load, it might work OK. During the update it starts out OK, but then says "update failed" or something like that. After re-booting as suggested, it starts again, only to fail again. After going through this many times, it finally just kind of froze on the failed message. Clicking 'OK' only momentarily removed the failed window, and then it reappears instantly. The failed window is preventing me from doing anything else on the app. I don't know what firmware version I'm running, and I don't know how to find out. I guess I have whatever firmware was on it when it was delivered last fall. I've tried to update 2 other firmware versions before and they didn't work either, at least I don't think they did - no way of knowing as far as I can tell. If anyone has a method to update NavWorx that works, please share it here for all of us. I did pose the question/problem to NavWorx. Hopefully someone here or there will have an answer.

Scott, the app should show you what firmware you are running, at least it did for me. On the main page that shows if all is well or not, near the top. Neil (AllThumbs) is the expert here, in my case I was jumping from 5.62 to 5.70, and the latest version of the app (1.5) did the trick. The spotty issue you are experiencing is exactly what motivated me to upgrade. If you can make it happen successfully it should solve the problem; it did in my case.

Apropos of nothing, I saw your old RV-6 on the ramp at Bridgeport (O57) a couple of weeks ago. Current owner loves it, was pretty cool to see him depart on a high DA day and rocket into the sky!
 
given up and glad of it !!

Well, this whole Navworx debacle has left a bad taste in my mouth after purchasing a certified 600B with all the goodies, antenna, transmon, etc. So, I took Sam Harts' advice and contacted Russ at Palmetto Avionics in Greenwood SC and installed an Appareo Stratus ESG. What a nice clean look. No external boxes to fool with. It took all of a 40 minuute flight back home and now I'm registered to receive my $500 rebate.
So.....whenever Navworx gets a fix for their equipment, I will send my unopened stuff back and then sell it. So someone will get a Navworx setup at a good price. I just simply got tired of the BS surrounding it all. Oh, as a commentary on Russ's work, I can say after being in the electronics field for over 40 years, his work is impeccable. Here's a picture of the finished product.

https://photos.google.com/u/2/share...?key=MHNjX084SGJVcTFyZVE5MVA1UWRxMHEyX1J2TTR3
 
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I just received an email from David Baron of the Fort Worth Office of the FAA regarding NavWorx ADSB. He hss requested my phone number to discuss my experience with the EXP unit.I suspect he got my email address from my public comment to the proposed AD. After watching an online deposition in which he testified on another Emergencey Revocation Action involving Air Trek , I'm not sure I want to even contact this guy. He came off really badly under cross- examination by the defense attorney and ultimately the NTSB denied the FAA appeal and ordered the FAA to pay Air Trek's attorney fees. If this guy is at the center of this AD then the video really shows what Bill Moffet has been up against. Google this and see for yourself, it's on YouTube . As for me I'm undecided weather I'll respond to his inquiry.
Duff
 

That deposition was 9 years ago, he probably is much more spun up today on the appeal process.

I too received an email from him and have been in contact.

It could be Navworx has appealed to NTSB with regard to the proposed AD and shutdown of their business. We just don't know what is going on behind the scenes.

One of these days FAA will make a decision on proposed AD.

Hopefully Navworx will resume business.
 
Me Too!

I received an e-mail from the same FAA person.

I replied that I was willing to speak with him, but explained that I never received my Navworx unit and no longer have one on order. He may or may not be interested in speaking with me.

Interesting video tho. Answers a lot of questions about how this all went down as far as I'm concerned.

Mel B.
Dues Paid
 
So what type of questions is this guy asking?
I got the same e-mail request. It seems like a very odd request.
I'm very happy with my -EXP, been installed a couple yrs now, got clean bill of health on first flight. I forwarded the e-mail to Bill and asked for his thoughts, haven't heard back from him.
*******************

Hi Mike,

I?m Dave Baron with the FAA and I?ve been tasked with contacting folks like you who purchased the Navworx ADS-B unit.

I would like to ask you questions about your purchase and how you heard about the Navworx ADS-B product line.

If I could get your telephone number and when it might be a good time for me to call, it would be very much appreciated.

Thank you!

Regards,

Dave Baron
Aviation Safety Inspector
Federal Aviation Administration
AFS-1030 Special Emphasis Investigations Team (SEIT)
10101 Hillwood Pkwy
Suite 6S-500
Ft. Worth, TX 76177
[email protected]


NOTICE: This E-mail (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. ?? 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, then delete it. Thank you.
 
I would like to ask you questions about your purchase and how you heard about the Navworx ADS-B product line.

Why would purchase information, or "How you heard about" have anything to do with an AD? To me, it sounds like they are building a case of false advertising which to me, has nothing to do with safety. This smells like CYA to counter a colossal FAA blunder.
 
Why would purchase information, or "How you heard about" have anything to do with an AD? To me, it sounds like they are building a case of false advertising which to me, has nothing to do with safety. This smells like CYA to counter a colossal FAA blunder.
Classic legal fishing, trying to make the case after initiated.
 
Classic legal fishing, trying to make the case after initiated.

AHA!

Maybe that's why Mr Baron has not called for more information.

I sent an email - I heard about Navworx from a local friend flying successfully with 600-EXP before the proposed AD and was waiting for the dispute with FAA be resolved and Navworx send what had been ordered and paid for.
 
The FAA (DB) called me back and I asked the why and who questions. Answers were:

I work for SEIT (an organization that seems to have no clear definable mandate).
I can't tell you why, I am just collecting the info for others.
No, I can't tell you who the others are or what they will do with the info, or why they want it.

I told him I'd be happy to answer specific questions on FAA letterhead with a purpose and goal stated, and an officially responsible name and division related to the AD on the letterhead. He said he thought that was a good idea, and thanked me for my time.
 
He is supposed to call me today. I think it prudent to ask him the exact same questions. The vague answers are fully expected.
 
The FAA (DB) called me back and I asked the why and who questions. Answers were:

I work for SEIT (an organization that seems to have no clear definable mandate).
I can't tell you why, I am just collecting the info for others.
No, I can't tell you who the others are or what they will do with the info, or why they want it.

I told him I'd be happy to answer specific questions on FAA letterhead with a purpose and goal stated, and an officially responsible name and division related to the AD on the letterhead. He said he thought that was a good idea, and thanked me for my time.

Perfect response! Now if we can get everyone he reaches out to do the same.

bob
 
Navworx

Anyone heard anything about where this company stands recently? I keep checking the website and it hasn't changed in months. I'm beginning to think my unit with transmon is going to end up an expensive paperweight... The iPad app doesn't work anymore because of the new iOS, so I'm thinking any computerized gizmo isn't worth much without a good company backing it to keep things current. My navworx seems to work well in the plane for now at least.
 
There's another thread (sticky) where some activity is documented from NavWorx. There are a few of us with our units in for repair that are getting an occasional response from Bill. Based on who sent what in when, we kinda know what order stuff arrived and when we should expect turnaround.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=146330

No idea about long-term viability of the company from this - but we are hearing something...and we want them to continue to be a viable option!
 
Gave up on Navworx

I ordered one of the Navwork EXP units last August, and like everyone else, never got it. After months of no email or telephone responses to my queries, I was really glad that I purchased it on my Master Card. I called MC today and they are refunding my purchase price and will collect from Navworx.
THANK YOU MASTERCARD!
I hated to do it, but with the lack of response from Navworx, on products already paid for (which, in hind sight, should have been a red flag in the first place), I can only imagine what ongoing support would be like.
Since I have always been happy with GRT products, and am installing their EFIS/EIS system in my RV-3B, I am going to go with their new UAvionics package, which should ship by the middle to end of June. (They are waiting to get in more of their GPS units so they can bundle the packages.)
 
Same here Steve

Like Steve we are contemplating putting the UAvionics/GRT package in my 9A as well as my brothers 12. I think they fit better behind the 12's panel anyhow.
 
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