Van's Air Force
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Cowl Hinge Shims/Attach Plates necessary?
- Thread starter kbalch
- Start date
Kyle Boatright
Well Known Member
Yes. Without those shims, the cowl will not be a flush match with the sheet metal at the firewall.
kbalch
Well Known Member
Understood on the shims; thanks, guys.
Do I need to install the attach plates now or will Skybolt's interlocking flanges take their place down the road? If so, is it okay to leave the various skins around the firewall clecoed until it's time to install the Camlocs next spring/summer?
Do I need to install the attach plates now or will Skybolt's interlocking flanges take their place down the road? If so, is it okay to leave the various skins around the firewall clecoed until it's time to install the Camlocs next spring/summer?
Kyle Boatright
Well Known Member
The skins around the firewall (and hinges, shims, and camlock strips) become a bigger challenge once the engine mount is installed. Basically, it becomes impossible (nothing is impossible, but...) to drive or squeeze a rivet in close proximity to the 4 or 6 engine mount points that are near the perimeter of the firewall.
I'm not sure what you mean by attach plates...
kbalch
Well Known Member
I'll have to check my old photos from the last project to see how I did it then. I'm thinking a tapered, no-hole yoke, but I could be misremembering.
Page 28-07, Figure 2. Part F-14133-1 Cowl Attach Plates. I suspect (always dangerous!) that the Skybolt flanges will stand in for these and be spaced inboard by the shims.
The Skybolt flanges will sub for the attach plates but you MUST rivet them on before the engine mount gets permanently attached as there is no room to set the rivets afterwards. Remember too that no matter what, you still have about 14 or so screws on the bottom that screw into the support plate that surrounds the nose gear leg so unless you find a way to replace those with more Skybolt fasteners, you wont be completely screwless.
kbalch
Well Known Member
Good info; thanks. I wasn't aware of those bottom screws. I'll have to look at it closely when the time comes to see whether I might substitute some additional Camlocs. Even if it's not possible, at least the bottom cowl doesn't have to come off very often. Heck, even the upper cowl gets two screws on each side behind the spinner, right?
Hopefully you are not going to all of the extra expense and labor just to have a more easily removable top cowl......
I would wager that I can remove a built per plans RV-14 top cowl , just as fast as someone can remove one installed with camlocks.
And if camlocks aren't used on the gear leg close out plate, the removal of the bottom cowl probably wouldn't be much different either.
RV-14E
Well Known Member
Greetings.
Opinions on quarter turns vs. hinges aside, you've made the right decision for you. Congratulations! Others can build according to what works for them.
When I installed my Skybolts, I found that the F-14134A Cowling Hinge Shim caused the upper cowl to sit too low. I removed the shim from my install and the cowl sat flush relative to the F-01471 Forward Top Skin.
If you don't plan to use the quarter turn fasteners for the bottom cowl, install the F-14133-1 Cowl Attach Plates per plans. If you plan to use the quarter turns there, you may have additional issues to consider to make it all work: The area around the Cowl Attach Plates is apparently subject to fatigue as Van's deprecated the use of the original, thinner F-14133 part in place of the newer, thicker F-14133-1 part. This was an update that was released on 10-Nov-15.
I didn't have issues riveting the SkyBolt flanges on with the engine mount in place. However, I also have a ground-down, no-hole yoke that gets me in to really tight spaces.
If you keep the Cowl Hinge Pins, there would be a total of six as the two side hinge pins are each held down with a screw.
Good luck with the install! Let us know how it goes.
Opinions on quarter turns vs. hinges aside, you've made the right decision for you. Congratulations! Others can build according to what works for them.
When I installed my Skybolts, I found that the F-14134A Cowling Hinge Shim caused the upper cowl to sit too low. I removed the shim from my install and the cowl sat flush relative to the F-01471 Forward Top Skin.
If you don't plan to use the quarter turn fasteners for the bottom cowl, install the F-14133-1 Cowl Attach Plates per plans. If you plan to use the quarter turns there, you may have additional issues to consider to make it all work: The area around the Cowl Attach Plates is apparently subject to fatigue as Van's deprecated the use of the original, thinner F-14133 part in place of the newer, thicker F-14133-1 part. This was an update that was released on 10-Nov-15.
I didn't have issues riveting the SkyBolt flanges on with the engine mount in place. However, I also have a ground-down, no-hole yoke that gets me in to really tight spaces.
If you keep the Cowl Hinge Pins, there would be a total of six as the two side hinge pins are each held down with a screw.
Good luck with the install! Let us know how it goes.
BillL
Well Known Member
I am pretty sure my 10 friend can remove or install his hinged cowl equal or faster than my Skybolts (- 7). Just a matter of getting the hinges right and the process down.
Of course everyone can build according to what is best for them, but the forums are used extensively for research by people trying to make those decisions
Since the purpose of this forum is to share information (I think we can agree on that at least, since you do so yourself). Comparing the removal time of one fastener system to another, is not just my personal opinion (This is based on personal experience with installing and using both methods). Information that camlock fasteners do not automatically make a cowl faster to remove and install could be valuable to someone else when they make the decision on which way to go.
What the forums don't need is a defensive posture any time someone makes a post that has an opposing view relative the best choice that someone else made.
Bottom line.... I didn't say camlocks were wrong. I just said that if the primary reason is for quicker/easier cowl removal, it is not a good reason, because it is false.
kbalch
Well Known Member
Guys,
I wasn't trying to ignite any sort of disagreement over cowl removal speed, as any difference in speed and/or ease of removal isn't my motivation for preferring Camlocs over hinge pins. Indeed, it's difficult to imagine a situation where speed of removal would be relevant.
I simply like the look of Camlocs and prefer the physical action of manipulating ¼-turn fasteners to that required by hinge pin insertion/removal. I used Camlocs on my -8, liked them, and plan to use them on my -14A. That is all.
I wasn't trying to ignite any sort of disagreement over cowl removal speed, as any difference in speed and/or ease of removal isn't my motivation for preferring Camlocs over hinge pins. Indeed, it's difficult to imagine a situation where speed of removal would be relevant.
I simply like the look of Camlocs and prefer the physical action of manipulating ¼-turn fasteners to that required by hinge pin insertion/removal. I used Camlocs on my -8, liked them, and plan to use them on my -14A. That is all.
