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Screws for wingtips

jay.pearlman

Well Known Member
I am mounting the wingtips. The plans say either screws (removable) or rivets. I need to make it removable because antennae and lights are mounted in the tip. The choice of screws seems to be 6-32 or 8-32. Which size screws have you used? Why the choice?
 
I used 6-32 srews in the provided hole locations. My wingtips are also gas tanks (9.5 gals each). I've not seen any indications of tip movement.

I am mounting the wingtips. The plans say either screws (removable) or rivets. I need to make it removable because antennae and lights are mounted in the tip. The choice of screws seems to be 6-32 or 8-32. Which size screws have you used? Why the choice?
 
Eights are tough because they're so near the edge you get a wavy skin. Bigger heads are hard to get flush also. Some guys have used fours, but I hate fours because they strip or snap so easily. So.....sixes, I guess.
 
Cleaveland wingtip kit

I used the Cleaveland wingtip kit but I also used Click-Bond nutplates that are cemented to the wingtip with a two part epoxy. Easy to install and easy to remove if necessary.
 
I used the Cleaveland kit with 4-40 screws.


http://www.cleavelandtool.com/Stainless-Wing-Tip-Hardware/productinfo/WHS220/

Stewart Willoughby
6, finishing

then also go to microfasteners.com and buy #4 torx screws and you have a really nice, low stripping solution.

I found that the screws that came with the cleveland tool kit stripped very easily. I tried everything including flattening the tip on a high quality new screw driver tip to get a deeper bite in the screw head-- still stripped.

torx is the way to go.
 
Don't use 4-40's!!!

I would definitely not use 4-40's they are simply too small and the screw heads are easy to strip out. I did one wing tip with these and removed and replaced with 6-32. Better grip and MUCH cheaper. I can't recall any other 4-40's in the construction.

Regarding Torx, I don't get the fascination with them. You gain no advantage over Phillips. Now you have to carry a few extra Torx and the proper wrench.

Remember to use the back up metal strips when you attach the nut plates to the glass.
 
6-32 for me ...

I hate to sound like a clueless "me too-er" but I like many others, I used 6-32's.

It was easy to make the decision: weigh a bag of seventy-eight (!) 6-32 screws and nutplates and weigh a bag of 8-32s <g>.

I've had no issues with the smaller screw heads using proper techniques (Boelube on initial installation, good #2 Phillips bit).

--
Joe
 
Our current airplane has 4-40 torx. I'm not going to do that again. Next one has 6-32 phillips.
 
Next time I would use hinge and abandon the screws altogether. Looks nicer and faster to get the tips on and off. Agree though that #4 are way too small. I even wear out the heads of a few #6's every time I take off the tips.
 
I used the Cleaveland kit with 4-40 screws.


http://www.cleavelandtool.com/Stainless-Wing-Tip-Hardware/productinfo/WHS220/

Stewart Willoughby
6, finishing

I used the same thing over 16-years ago and like them. (4-40 screws to mount wingtips)

I have read others that have NEGATIVE comments about the #4 screws. After almost 16-years and 2,700 hours of flying, I have yet to have a problem with any of my #4 screws.

I always use a driver drill with removal high quality tip bit, or a screwdriver with a high quality removable tip. If using a non-power operated driver to remove the screw, the screw driver is usually a "Snap-On" ratcheting screwdriver.
 
then also go to microfasteners.com and buy #4 torx screws and you have a really nice, low stripping solution.

I found that the screws that came with the cleveland tool kit stripped very easily. I tried everything including flattening the tip on a high quality new screw driver tip to get a deeper bite in the screw head-- still stripped.

torx is the way to go.

Yes, I did that! Torx are not perfect in these small sizes, but they are definitely better than Phillips!

Stewart Willoughby
6, finishing
 
For those of you using stainless screws, a dab of beeswax in each of the nutplates will make the screw easier to remove, and helps in the stripped Phillips head arena. Stainless tends to gall in the nutplates and becomes hard to remove.

If using a power drive run at slow speed also.

Toilet bowl sealing rings are a prefect source of beeswax----one ring should last you a lifetime------Jay Pratt excepted:D
 
For those of you using stainless screws, a dab of beeswax in each of the nutplates will make the screw easier to remove, and helps in the stripped Phillips head arena. Stainless tends to gall in the nutplates and becomes hard to remove.

If using a power drive run at slow speed also.

Toilet bowl sealing rings are a prefect source of beeswax----one ring should last you a lifetime------Jay Pratt excepted:D

That (beeswax) is what we (former employer that had Aircraft in its name) used on the thread of the screw. We just pulled one side of the screw thru the wax then ran it in. "DoAll" and other solid waxes work just as well from using what ever I had laying around over the years when Bee's Wax was not at hand.
 
Next time I would use hinge and abandon the screws altogether. Looks nicer and faster to get the tips on and off. Agree though that #4 are way too small. I even wear out the heads of a few #6's every time I take off the tips.

Seriously, since I first saw this done, I don't understand why it's not the standard way to attach wingtips. Still considering if it would be possible to retrofit mine.

http://www.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/Attach_Wingtips_with_Hinges
 
Seriously, since I first saw this done, I don't understand why it's not the standard way to attach wingtips. Still considering if it would be possible to retrofit mine.

http://www.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/Attach_Wingtips_with_Hinges

I put the tips on my Rocket with hinge. I can remove or reinstall a wingtip in under 30 seconds. Looks nice and clean.

Only thing with the hinge is you have to take out the slop inherent with hinge. Simple to do with a hammer and anvil to stretch the hinge on one side so it fits tight.
 
OK, so who is going to be the first to write me an illustrated guide to the hinge method for Kitplanes?

You can PM me if interested.... :)
 
I didn't take many pictures during that phase of the build. too busy trying to get it ready for paint.
 
OK, so who is going to be the first to write me an illustrated guide to the hinge method for Kitplanes?

I would love to see just that. I used the #4 screw kit from Cleaveland but would have gone the hinge route if I had known/thought about it. I might even consider a re-do because the 4's are a pain.
 
I plan to mount my tips within the next year (probably Spring) using the hinge method. If you can't get permission to use material from the expercraft site or anyone else, then we could probably coordinate what pictures you wanted (or even get a real photographer) as well as a write-up.
 
OK, so who is going to be the first to write me an illustrated guide to the hinge method for Kitplanes?

You can PM me if interested.... :)

I thoroughly documented my hinged wingtip install. Here are the links:

http://www.rvplane.com/?categoryid=3&dayid=567
http://www.rvplane.com/?categoryid=3&dayid=568
http://www.rvplane.com/?categoryid=3&dayid=569
Top of this page: http://www.rvplane.com/?categoryid=7&dayid=946
Bottom of this page: http://www.rvplane.com/?categoryid=7&dayid=959
Top of this page: http://www.rvplane.com/?categoryid=7&dayid=960
 
OK, so who is going to be the first to write me an illustrated guide to the hinge method for Kitplanes?

You can PM me if interested.... :)
When I first mentioned this method above, in the back of my mind was an old RVator with the method described and as far as I know the best documentation of how it is done was on Chad Jensen's website. I would recommend him. However, Chad's employer may not like him writing for the opposition. :rolleyes:
 
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I used hinges and looked at Chad's site and Mike Bullock's site. Mike used a much better method for locating holes. Chad's method although I am sure it works, involved more time and work.
 
I guess if you are not concerned about changes...

I guess if you are not concerned about changes then whatever hangs them on is fine. Mine come off and are changed to alternate configurations for travel, racing and development. I use #8 screws and the heads are painted to match the airplane (not stainless steel). In other areas where I want it obvious that the screws are to be removed in normal service I sometimes use stainless steel screws. It simplifies maintenance if all your screws are the same size - for me I use #8s everywhere. I think I bought 100 #8 screws one time pressed them into cardboard and painted the heads blue with Imron but I also have a lot of unpainted #8 screws and the most common length is 1/2".

Other #8 screw locations. fairings (many), removable steps, cowling split lead cover plate. A burred head is a quickly solved problem.

Bob Axsom
 
OK, so who is going to be the first to write me an illustrated guide to the hinge method for Kitplanes?

You can PM me if interested.... :)

Paul, you might want to contact Mark Phillips (Possum works). He was the one that developed this process back in 2003.
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=23961 There are now better ways to do the installation, but Mark was the first.

The process here...... http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5181


Warren
 
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so - how well do it work

The hinges sound like a great idea. Those of you with hinges that have been flying, what issues have you run into. What are the downsides of the hinges?
 
You know it's an interesting comment on how far this industry has come when the thought of someone writing an article on how to screw on wing tips is even a consideration. I'm thinking 40 years ago a builder was amazed he even got wing tips to screw on was quite the deal.
 
The hinges sound like a great idea. Those of you with hinges that have been flying, what issues have you run into. What are the downsides of the hinges?

2 things about hinges.

1. if you want to make different tips (smaller racing tips, extended baggage tips) it makes it much harder to line up the hinges for easy swap-a-bility.

2. there are no screws to use for attachment points for things like cameras or smoke canisters
 
Mike,
Thanks for the Excellent summary of what you did. One thing you did not mention is how far forward you can run the hinges. Obviously, it is different on the top and the bottom, the top having more curvature. What did you end up doing?
 
Jay,

To be honest, I don't really recall how far forward I went with the hinges. I don't recall adding any new holes to the existing prepunched holes in the wing skins, so I am guessing that is as far forward as I went. If you want some exact measurements, I can easily take a look at my RV the next time in at the hangar.
 
Recognizing that my website is somewhat scattered with the info needed to attach the wingtips with hinges, I created a step-by-step document with the whole process, including parts needed. It is accessible here:

http://www.rvplane.com/pdf/WingtipScrews.pdf

Hum.... I just spent an hour or two this morning trying to combine all the wingtip sections from your website. Little did I know you just did the same yesterday:). It does make a lot more sense to me now, THANK YOU! Of course, I did enjoy reading the other sections anyway:)
 
I would definitely not use 4-40's they are simply too small and the screw heads are easy to strip out. I did one wing tip with these and removed and replaced with 6-32. Better grip and MUCH cheaper. I can't recall any other 4-40's in the construction.

Regarding Torx, I don't get the fascination with them. You gain no advantage over Phillips. Now you have to carry a few extra Torx and the proper wrench.

Remember to use the back up metal strips when you attach the nut plates to the glass.

any experience, or is this simply opinion? No need to respond, but torx do work better than phillips from a stripping standpoint.... If you are worried about a traveling tool kit-- are and the added weight/reduced payload or widespread availability of a torx bit scares you? How often do you need to remove a wingtip?

I don't think you can buy a descent screwdriver set without torx anymore.

Torx work well, quite well. I find that I do sometimes bend a torx bit, but that is usually in a high tensile strength deck screw with a cordless impact gun. Even then, a bent torx bit works much better than a stripped screwdriver bit or a worn screw.

It's not fascination. Have you ever used an impact driver on a standard phillips screw. How did that work out over time?
 
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This discussion convinced me -- I ordered a bunch of hinge material from Spruce to attach my wingtips using that method. It doesn't really look like a whole lot more work than using screws, but the end result should look nicer.

And I won't have to worry about whether or not I have a Torx screwdriver with me. :)
 
Regarding Torx, I don't get the fascination with them. You gain no advantage over Phillips. Now you have to carry a few extra Torx and the proper wrench.

Sounds like someone who has never used Torx on a regular basis. Phillips screws are also referred to as "self-stripping", because as they age the heads *will* strip. The tapered tool guarantees it. There have been at least a dozen different "Phillips" screw bit designs that try to solve this problem, but so far the best solution has been to remove them and switch to a properly designed fastener. Torx or Robertson for me, thanks.
 
Very clever!

Recognizing that my website is somewhat scattered with the info needed to attach the wingtips with hinges, I created a step-by-step document with the whole process, including parts needed. It is accessible here:

http://www.rvplane.com/pdf/WingtipScrews.pdf
Mike, Just looking at this now - the way you use the wingtip flange to both provide the rivet layout and spacing of the hinge is really clever. BTW, you may want to update the link to the document.

http://www.rvplane.com/pdf/WingtipHinges.pdf

Good stuff - thanks for writing it up!
 
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