VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #11  
Old 11-21-2019, 11:34 PM
Driftdown Driftdown is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Clearwater, Florida
Posts: 368
Default

Thank you, Scott, for the clarification.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-22-2019, 07:05 AM
Deuelly Deuelly is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 28
Default

So, regard less of whether he built or bought this LSA, if he didn't take the course required, his inspections aren't valid and the plane is unairworthy?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-22-2019, 08:10 AM
jnorris's Avatar
jnorris jnorris is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oshkosh
Posts: 182
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuelly View Post
So, regard less of whether he built or bought this LSA, if he didn't take the course required, his inspections aren't valid and the plane is unairworthy?
Every aircraft that holds a special airworthiness certificate (including all experimental and SLSA aircraft) will have operating limitations as a part of the airworthiness certificate. Those operating limitations will contain the requirement for inspections and who is authorized to perform such inspections. Typically, the inspection interval will be 12 calendar months. But as has been mentioned previously, this is not universal so you must read your operating limitations to verify the requirements.

Now, for amateur-built and ELSA, the operating limitations will contain the ability for a person holding the appropriate repairman certificate to perform the condition inspection. Who is eligible for these repairman certificates will vary between amateur-built and ELSA.

For amateur-built, only the "original primary builder" is eligible for the repairman certificate for that aircraft. Who can qualify as the "original primary builder" is the subject for a different discussion. The point here is that there's no way for anyone other than the original primary builder to gain the repairman certificate for that aircraft. If you're not the original primary builder, the common choice is to have an A&P mechanic perform the inspection.

For ELSA, a person who is the "OWNER" of the aircraft must attend and successfully complete a 16 hour course of instruction in order to gain the appropriate repairman certificate. This is true whether you are the builder of the ELSA or not. Even if you built it, you must successfully complete the course in order to gain the repairman certificate. The benefit here is that subsequent owners of the aircraft are also eligible for a repairman certificate for that aircraft after completion of the course. So an ELSA is attractive for a second or subsequent owner from this perspective.

In any case, if someone is performing condition inspections on an experimental aircraft without the appropriate repairman (or A&P) certificate, the inspections are not valid and the aircraft is not legal to fly.
__________________
Cheers!

Joe
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-22-2019, 09:00 AM
jrtens's Avatar
jrtens jrtens is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Sandy, Utah
Posts: 16
Default

Just to clarify - if you build or buy an RV-12 ELSA, you may do any and all maintenance on your plane. You may not however sign off the annual condition inspection unless you have taken the 16 hour course and obtained a LSRI certificate from the FAA.

If you do not want to do this, then you will need to get an A&P or a LSRM to perform the condition inspection.
__________________
Jon
RV-12iS
Salt Lake Int'l

Last edited by jrtens : 11-22-2019 at 09:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-22-2019, 09:48 AM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Granada Hills
Posts: 307
Default

As an owner of a RV-12, then if you are the 2nd or later owner of an E-AB build, then, unless you already HAVE your A&P, or the 120 hr course, you will be paying annually for someone else with a valid A&P to do your annual inspections.

Any idea how many hours an A&P will spend doing an annual and what it would cost a potential owner considering buying a used E-AB RV-12? Concerned more about how much it adds to the cost of annual operations for budgeting purposes.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-22-2019, 09:49 AM
Mich48041 Mich48041 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Riley TWP MI
Posts: 2,941
Default

Regardless of any education or courses taken, the person signing the
logbook for the condition inspection of any E-AB or E-LSA aircraft must hold a
repairman's certificate or A&P certificate. The certificate is issued by the FAA
and looks similar to a pilot's license.
Anyone may work on or maintain an E-AB or E-LSA aircraft, even a young
teenager whose only experience is using a cell phone.
__________________
Joe Gores
RV-12 Flying
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-22-2019, 09:56 AM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Granada Hills
Posts: 307
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mich48041 View Post
Regardless of any education or courses taken, the person signing the
logbook for the condition inspection of any E-AB or E-LSA aircraft must hold a
repairman's certificate or A&P certificate. The certificate is issued by the FAA
and looks similar to a pilot's license.
Anyone may work on or maintain an E-AB or E-LSA aircraft, even a young
teenager whose only experience is using a cell phone.
Security is a little tight at the airports I frequent, the teenagers getting into the hangar areas is a unheard of nowadays since 9-11, compared to the 1970's and 1980's where you could hang out at an airfield and learn a lot.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-22-2019, 10:13 AM
jrtens's Avatar
jrtens jrtens is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Sandy, Utah
Posts: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinerBikes View Post
As an owner of a RV-12, then if you are the 2nd or later owner of an E-AB build, then, unless you already HAVE your A&P, or the 120 hr course, you will be paying annually for someone else with a valid A&P to do your annual inspections.

Any idea how many hours an A&P will spend doing an annual and what it would cost a potential owner considering buying a used E-AB RV-12? Concerned more about how much it adds to the cost of annual operations for budgeting purposes.
There is quite a difference between an E-AB RV-12 and an ELSA RV-12. Most RV-12s are ELSA. Is that what you mean?
__________________
Jon
RV-12iS
Salt Lake Int'l
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-22-2019, 10:27 AM
joe gremlin's Avatar
joe gremlin joe gremlin is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Michigan
Posts: 162
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinerBikes View Post
unless you already HAVE your A&P, or the 120 hr course, you will be paying annually for someone else with a valid A&P to do your annual inspections.
120 hr course?
__________________
Joe
RV-12 Empennage
Fuse kit in box
Need a wing kit
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-22-2019, 11:54 AM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Granada Hills
Posts: 307
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe gremlin View Post
120 hr course?
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you need to take a 120 hr course to get your A&P Certificate? Someone here, set me straight.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:31 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.