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RV-6 rebuild project in Palm Springs CA

jamlip

Well Known Member
Hi all. First project thread here.

35 years old, British, living in beautiful Palm Springs California. Learned to fly about 10 years ago at White Waltham airfield in the UK.

I have owned an Avid Speedwing, Europa and a Cri-Cri.

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Now flying an absolutely fantastic O-360 RV-4, which I bought right after moving to the US in 2017. I have around 200 hours in the aircraft, including three cross-country trips to Oshkosh.

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I absolutely LOVE flying in the US. Imagine an East German walking into a West German supermarket in 1989 - that's how I feel about it. It's so good.

Where else in the world can you land your own aircraft on a dry lakebed in the middle of the desert, like this...

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... only to randomly meet two guys doing the same thing in a Cessna 195...

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who then give you a sandwich like this...

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What an amazing place.


Whilst I really enjoy flying the RV-4, I've been interested in owning an RV-6 for a while. I fly long distances quite a lot and could use a bit more cabin space.

A few weeks ago a friend found out about an RV-6 that was for sale at an airport up near Sacramento. After deciding the project was too much for him, he passed the details on to me. Because I have never owned anything that doesn't need a load of fixing-up, I bought it. Ugh.

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A week ago, after finishing some work in Napa, I drove three hours north to collect the aircraft. My transport home was to be a 26ft UHaul box truck. Note that the yellow trim line was removed before we even loaded it into the truck.

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Doesn't fit, obviously...

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The owner and two friends (including Chris, right, who put me onto the sale) helped me load it.

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The truck rode like a washing machine filled with bricks, and 10 hour drive south was torture.

Parking a dismantled aircraft in my street caused quite a stir. After a discussion about whether I could fly it off the road (probably could, yo) a neighbour helped me unload the fuselage to the back garden, and the wings into my hangar. Here it is having a stare-out with my Roadmaster wagon (it's officially required, as a displacement-emaciated European emigrating to the United States, to buy the biggest V8 crapbox you can lay your hands on. I can't get enough of this car - this is my second Roadmaster wagon and I love it).

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Progress so far:

Panel is out
Wiring is out
Have fitted a GRT AHRS and EchoUat/SkyFyx ADSB.
Put the old Narco MK12 Nav Com, AT-165 transponder and loads of other old instruments on eBay.

Panel plan is as follows:

The aircraft came with a brand new, unused, GRT Horizon HXr. I fitted GRT stuff in my RV-4 and really like it, so I'm pretty excited to have this unit.

For coms, I plan to buy Garmin SL-30, as it can send ILS Loc GS data to the HXr.

I am going to re-use the existing panel with a new section overlaid to accommodate the HXr and an iPad mini. The right side was originally blank, but I have cut holes for backup steam ASI, Alt, VSI and compass. I have those instruments available and they're not too heavy, so figure nice to have them onboard.

Haven't decided on an intercom yet.

I'd like to get a Garmin GPS 175 at some point, so will leave space for it in the radio stack.

Having flown for two years with a throttle quadrant in the RV-4, I really want one in this thing.

With regards to the engine, it needs mags so I figure they should be E-mags. The carb has been removed from the engine. I can't see why, but it is giving me the heebie jeebies, so I'll probably exchange it for a refurbed unit.

Looking right now like this thing is going to bankrupt me.
 
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Congratulations on your project James, I?m looking forward to following your progress. And yes, welcome to the bankrupt club! It?s the only time you can become bankrupt and still have a smile on your face. I guess it?s impossible to wipe off the ?RV grin?!!
 
Left side throttle

James,

Send me an email and I'll send you a picture of the left side throttle I installed during my RV-6 rebuild. I kept the center throttle, so now it has full dual controls. No time to post pictures to VAF tonight.

We carry full camping gear for two including chairs in the RV-6.

Enjoy the rebuild.

Cheers, David
RV-6A KBTF
 
Having flown for two years with a throttle quadrant in the RV-4, I really want one in this thing.

Jamie,

Van's produced a drawing for a simple left hand throttle for the RV-6.



I'm just fitting one to an RV-6 that I'm reassembling in the UK, and using the drawing spec and a DJM single lever quadrant, plus a custom length cable. This is in addition to the existing centre throttle.

Good luck with the project. Did you ever get sorted with your Murphy Rebel?
 
Hi Ed. Great to hear from you again.

I'm interested in a centre throttle quadrant. Flyboy makes a nice looking curved one with three levers. If anyone has an opinion on it vs organ stop controls, I'd love to hear it.

Work update... I've done a lot of stuff, but not exactly sure what it has amounted to.

Fitted the GRT AHRS and magentometer, only to then read the installation instructions and discover the magentometer has to be in the wing for best performance. Always read the installation instructions first.

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Removed all the Electronics Intl engine senders.

Mocked-up the top-mounted rudder pedals. Annoyingly, there are two NACA ducts positions -just- low enough to foul the top of the mounting blocks. I futzed with them for hours, shaving the top blocks down with a knife until both were unusable.

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Luckily there are a few sets of these blocks in my pile of parts. I worked out that, rather than change the block, it'd be better to cut the bottom off the duct and repair it with automotive seam sealer once the block was installed. Not particularly nice, but I'm out of options.

This image shows the left side, which is a few thousands of an inch higher than the right!

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I investigated buying E-Mags. The PO sold both the Slicks and unfortunately all the ancialliary stuff - gears, spacer, bolts etc. I've never met an A&P that rates Slicks anyway. This is going to be a big spend.

I cut the panel around a bit. Toyed with the idea of making a new one, but I'm going to put a blank over the left side of the existing one. I cut holes in the right side for backup steam ASI, Altimeter, VSI and compass. It'll look nice once it's painted.

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Next projects:

1. Sort out the tailwheel chains. For some reason they're odd lengths and very tight. If the aircraft was flown like this, I bet it was crazy exciting on the ground. I'd like to go with the Flyboy linkage, but it's an oldschool non-swivelling tailwheel. Replacing it can be a project further down the line.

2. Cut the rest of the panel.

3. Shim the motor up so the spinner sits level with the top of the cowling.

4. Work out where to put the fuse block. Possibly make that flip-down panel that everyone seems to like.
 
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Panel is powdercoated and installed. GRT HXr is up and running. I'm happy - it looks absolutely brilliant.

I went with a trusty Garmin GTX 327 transponder and will install one Becker radio for now. I will decide how much money I want to spend on a proper radio once I've seen how the thing flies.

I bought two EMags for the motor, which are on the engine, but which I still need to wire.

Tailwheel chains are sorted - that was a non-issue.

I put the fuse block behind the panel. Hoping I never need to go in there anyway. There's a main bus of mostly 18ga wire and 10A fuses, and an avionics bus of mostly 2A and 3A fuses.

Next projects are to move the com antennas - they're currently about a foot apart, with the transponder antenna inbetween, and then de-slosh the fuel tanks.

I removed the fuel tank from the right wing this evening. They're extended tanks - 28 gallons a side - and are absolutely huge. Not looking forward to that job.

Still haven't addressed the rudder pedals. I'm just ignoring that right now.
 
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Looks like you are making good progress! I am in the process of rebuilding an RV-4, my tanks had a few seeping areas and were sloshed as well. Having done quite a bit of fuel tank work in the past I decided on this project to send them to Paul Beck at Weep-no-More in Minnesota. They turned out great and he guarantees his work. I spent a whole day building shipping boxes for them, I used the big garment boxes from Home Depot as a starting point and packed the tanks in the boxes using pool noodles I found on clearance. I believe the total was around $2300 including the shipping cost so it’s definitely not the cheapest option. No regrets in my case, I think it was money well spent, saved me a lot of time and frustration and I know they are done right.
 
Still haven't addressed the rudder pedals. I'm just ignoring that right now.

Years ago, George Orndorff made a series of VHS videos on RV6 construction. In one of those videos he too made the mistake of fitting the NACA vents to low. From memory I think he shortened the rudder torque tubes and just attached a plate to the top of the 6061T6 angle and mounted the bearing blocks further inboard to clear the vents on both sides.
You can track down a more modern copy of those old videos on his website. Just search his name and it should come up. Well worth a look. He has some very good "stuff" in them for sure.
 
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Years ago, George Orndorff made a series of VHS videos on RV6 construction. In one of those videos he too made the mistake of fitting the NACA vents to low. From memory I think he shortened the rudder torque tubes and just attached a plate to the top of the 6061T6 angle and mounted the bearing blocks further inboard to clear the vents on both sides.
You can track down a more modern copy of those old videos on his website. Just search his name and it should come up. Well worth a look. He has some very good "stuff" in them for sure.

I've sussed this one out - the right block fouls the vents by about 1/8 of an inch (the left one will -just- squeeze under). I cut away the bottom of the vent, and will fill with seam sealer and then paint once everything is installed.

Easier than making brackets and whatnot!
 
Looks like you are making good progress! I am in the process of rebuilding an RV-4, my tanks had a few seeping areas and were sloshed as well. Having done quite a bit of fuel tank work in the past I decided on this project to send them to Paul Beck at Weep-no-More in Minnesota. They turned out great and he guarantees his work. I spent a whole day building shipping boxes for them, I used the big garment boxes from Home Depot as a starting point and packed the tanks in the boxes using pool noodles I found on clearance. I believe the total was around $2300 including the shipping cost so it’s definitely not the cheapest option. No regrets in my case, I think it was money well spent, saved me a lot of time and frustration and I know they are done right.

Thanks. I saw lots of references to this company. My tanks are huge (they're as tall as me when stood on their ends!), so I'd perhaps pay more than $2300. Either way, $2300 buys a lot of my time at my low, low hourly rate, so I'm going to do this one myself.

Whilst I'm thinking about it, does anyone know the thickness of the rear bulkhead of the fuel tanks (so I can make my patches).
 
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Hi James, I'm the lady with the RV4 who had the Jeep at Bacon Strip. Pat and Carol (with the Bearhawk) and I are trying to get in touch with you about the location of the boulder near the megaphone. Pat searched for it, but no luck. My RV4 is a hoot to fly; we are doing some work on it, but it should be done next week. Geri
 
Hi James, I'm the lady with the RV4 who had the Jeep at Bacon Strip. Pat and Carol (with the Bearhawk) and I are trying to get in touch with you about the location of the boulder near the megaphone. Pat searched for it, but no luck. My RV4 is a hoot to fly; we are doing some work on it, but it should be done next week. Geri

Hi Geri. Great to hear from you! Just saw your PM - I'll reply there.
 
Still going with this thing...

Removed and de-sloshed the fuel tanks. They've been built oversize to 28 gallons each side, and when you stand them on their end, they're about as tall as me. It took me about ten hours per tank, and I used $150 of MEK.

Today I fitted new wing spar cover panels. The aircraft didn't come with any, depite there being evidence that there were once some fitted. Took ages - really annoying. At the same time, I made a centre section for the floor, since I've done-away with the standard battery box.

I also re-configured the fuel selector bracket. It once ran to the underside of the panel as a kind if centre console. I didn't like that setup, since it was flimsy, in the way, and you could see all the wiring hanging out the back of it. So I made a box and tied it to some angle on the floor. Now the cockpit feels much roomier.

Still trying to work out what to do with the manual trim vernier. I think I'll run it up inside the box and have it poking out next to the fuel selector.

Thinking about getting an Andair valve for the good looks.

Now trying to work out what I do to finish those spar panels and floor. I wouldn't mind some carpet in the floor area, seeing as it is now a flat expanse of sheet metal. Perhaps run carpet from the firewall, through the footwell, over the spar covers and forward seat panels. This would also help stop the cushions moving about. Anyone have any thoughts on this matter? I do like lightweight aeroplane, but figured my panel, as configured, weighs absolutely nothing, so there's some margin there.

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White Waltham

At the beginning of this thread you mentioned learning to fly out of WW. Though an American, i lived a in Reading 20 years ago. Lots of fond memories of flying out of WLAC including flying the Super Cub, several of the warriors and many hours in Alan Cassidy?s Pitts Special (G-STUA). Expensive flying and landing fees sucked, but few things better than an hour in G-WLAC followed by a full English breakfast at the airfield.

Cheers,

Bruce
 
funny thing, almost same here, though more like 30 years ago... lived for 6 1/2 years in Langley then Slough... good memories of White Waltham: manually priming the Gypsy Major on the DHC-1 G-AOTY, 10 turn spin training (...), hunting the countryside for those painted horses, then returning for the all azimuth grass field and the coppatea :)

Enjoying your "blog" James, thanks and cheerio!
 
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Wow - memories of WW from 30 years ago and 20 years ago. I trained there 10 years ago. I suspect not much changed inbetween.

Based my Europa there for a bit (parked outside, in the rain and the mud, ugh) then moved it to Popham, which was cheaper and quieter. Enjoyed both places, but nothing even comes close to the vibe here in the US. 'Murica!
 
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A few months back I found out the CS prop currently fitted to the aircraft is an E-suffix Hartzell C2YK with the hub Eddy Current Inspection AD. Obviously pretty hacked off, and trying to work out what to do about it.

From the research I've done, my options seem to be...

1) Overhaul and have it inspected every 100 hours. I fly about 90-110/year, so could schedule it with the Condition Inspection,
2) Overhaul with an updated hub.
3) Sell the prop as-is and buy a whole new or secondhand CS unit.
4) Fit a fixed-pitch prop, with the option of going CS later.

Not keen on anything except 2 & 3. And I'm not certain I want to lob $10k at this aeroplane until I've at least flown it a bit (I love my 4, and figure there's a chance I may end up keeping it instead).

If anyone has a lead on a secondhand CS, I may be interested!
 
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May have jumped the gun on this - it's still a long way from flying.

But I wanted to get the wings on it, so off it goes to the Palm Springs International Airport...

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Engine needs shimming up. Longer bolts on order.

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I look happy here because I hadn't yet started to fit the left wing. It gathered some crud on the way in and won't seat right, so tomorrow I need to remove it and attempt a refit.

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Wonderful progress, James. Would really love to see closeup detail pics of the spar slid into the spar bulkhead and the NAS tolerance bolts going in. Wishing you better luck with that left wing retrofit.
 
Congrats

did the Same thing myself. Fuse was ready but the wings nead paint, it was pretty motivating though to see it in a hangar and I am putting more time into the wings.

Keep building, it is almost nine years for me but it will fly this year!

nice paint , did you do it yourself?

Dave
 
Today's view from the hangar...

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With the aid of the same kind neighbor that helped me install the wings two days ago, I pulled the left wing. It turns out the end of a drilled rivet was what was pushing the spar leaves apart - especially annoying as I fastidiously vacuumed in there before sliding everything together.

The neighbor is a Fox News kind of guy, so he enjoyed the fact that the left wing had screwed everything up. What a gift.

Wonderful progress, James. Would really love to see closeup detail pics of the spar slid into the spar bulkhead and the NAS tolerance bolts going in. Wishing you better luck with that left wing retrofit.

I haven't tightened any of them yet. The bolts that go through the reinforcing plate are close tolerance. The ones that go through the rest of the spar are standard.

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Close tolerance bolts...

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Yes, THESE ARE NOT TIGHTENED!

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Afterwards, I did a bit more wiring. So close, yet so much more to do.

Then I discovered that the aileron push rod tube fouls the new autopilot servo that I fitted. This is really annoying.

This is how I had it set up originally. I couldn't get full right-back stick.

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So I flipped the rod end bearing over to the other side of the servo crank. This solves pretty much everything, except that at full forward-left stick the extreme angle of the AP push rod causes the rod end bearings to bind on the through-bolts.

I played with it for an hour or two, then headed home. Total of 11 hours in the hangar today.

Here's where the panel is at right now. The registration is new - I bought it, but it hasn't been assigned yet. It's my wife's favorite number, plus the first letter of her name. I have to choose numbers and letters carefully because nobody here can understand my weird accent.

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With regards to the AP binding issue, could anyone help me determine my elevator stops?

At full aft stick, the elevator bellcrank in the tail is arrested by aluminum angle structure at the end of the fuselage. I've dug around on the forum and that appears to be correct.

At full forward stick, there does not appear to be a stop, and a light scraping noise can be heard coming from near the bellcrank. At full right + forward, the stick contacts the throttle organ stop.

I presume this is not correct. Or rather, I don't like it one bit. Can anyone enlighten me?

In other news, I found this in my box of parts. It looks like a stop, and I suspect it was purchased by a previous owner to be fitted during the rebuild... but where does it go?

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James, you’ll find the elevator stops depicted on the top of sheet #34 of the plans.
- F-611E is a spacer
- F-612B is an angle
I would suggest checking if both are installed...

As for the picture, looks like a rudder stop to me, though no clue as to how it would be affixed to VS :confused:
 
James, you?ll find the elevator stops depicted on the top of sheet #34 of the plans.
- F-611E is a spacer
- F-612B is an angle
I would suggest checking if both are installed...

As for the picture, looks like a rudder stop to me, though no clue as to how it would be affixed to VS :confused:

Thanks DC. I don't have any plans, just the builder's manual.

I didn't think I'd be getting this deep into the aircraft, but here I am!
 
The nylon block you have there is a third party internal rudder stop. It gets fitted to the vertical stab and attached to one of the brackets that a rod end bearing attaches to. Clean design and works well on my 8. If you already have the external stops you don?t need it.
 
Soft copy of the plans are available - easier to use than paper.

Careful with the nylon rudder stop, it puts loads into areas of the structure not designed to react them.

Pete
 
Today's view from the hangar...
...
The neighbor is a Fox News kind of guy, so he enjoyed the fact that the left wing had screwed everything up. What a gift.

I haven't tightened any of them yet. The bolts that go through the reinforcing plate are close tolerance. The ones that go through the rest of the spar are standard.
...
Haha...I'm sure your Fox friend knows how essential that left wing is ;)

Those pics are very helpful for me to visualize the wing re-fit. I have the plans, but nothing beats a real picture. BTW, your panel looks great, highly functional yet simple.
 
Fantastic - big help, guys. Thank you!

I'm ordering those PDF plans from Vans - I also need to check details on two brackets that I think tie the floor stiffeners to the spar.
 
Fantastic - big help, guys. Thank you!

I'm ordering those PDF plans from Vans - I also need to check details on two brackets that I think tie the floor stiffeners to the spar.

Each stiffener gets tied to the spar with a simple angle bracket. These where not depicted in early plans, or folks looked passed them often. If they are not tied to the spar for support, you can get weeping rivets and even cracks on the bottom skin. Important to install them.
 
Each stiffener gets tied to the spar with a simple angle bracket. These where not depicted in early plans, or folks looked passed them often. If they are not tied to the spar for support, you can get weeping rivets and even cracks on the bottom skin. Important to install them.

Thanks. So tie all the brackets to the spar bolts? I noticed witness marks on the middle two, but haven't checked the others.

My aircraft has a false floor, so the ribs are slightly different to others I have seen.

I also plan to build a center console running from the bulkhead to the tank selector, between the middle two stiffeners.
 
Not a great deal of progress today. Went to the airport and kind of messed around.

Talked to Harry in the hangar behind mine about the autopilot control shaft joint binding up. He restores DeHavilland stuff (currently a RCAF Chipmunk) and has just tons of hardware odds and sods. I explained I was looking for a washer with a smaller diameter-to-hole ratio, so the joint could sit at more of an angle than the standard AN washer was allowing, and managed to find some AN3 spring washers which did the job. He has this fantastic voice, and sort of wanders around mildly freaking out over the volume of stuff he has accumulated over the years. He's great.

Shortly after getting that sorted, a white GMC SUV thing rolls up to the hangar. It's unusual to see anyone at PSP, so I hopped out of the aeroplane to say hi. Got chatting, and he turned out to be the owner of Basler, the turbine DC-3 guys in Oshkosh. Another nice old dude. By his own admission he was into junk, which I think is why he stopped to look at my project.

One of the things I love about aviation here in the US is that it's a kind of leveller - people who love aviation love that you love it too (see also: France), whereas my experience in the UK was quite the opposite.

Anyway, back to business...

The elevator does not have the F-611E down stop fitted. This is weird to me, because the quality of construction is what sold me on the aircraft - it's nicely put together, especially for an older build.

This is the crank hitting the rear bulkhead. It gives 30 degrees up, which right on the limit as specified by Vans.

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This is the crank hitting... nothing, because the stabilizer skin binds with the elevator. It gives 25 degrees of down, and I think the minimum is 20 degrees.

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So I need to sort that out.

Good news is, the rudder does have stops fitted, so I don't need to fit the Flyboys plastic thing.
 
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Whilst I was in Harry's hangar, searching through his vast collection of washers and whatnot, I mentioned that I needed to go buy some wire so I could finish installing my intercom and radio. No need, he proclaimed, showing me a huge stack of Tefzel that was left over from some sort of B-something bomber restoration. Most of it was elephantine stuff, but I did find a roll of triple-core shielded 20-guage. Game on.

The aircraft came with a bunch of Narco gear - Radio, Nav, GS etc. I have a Narco radio as a Com 2 in my RV-4 and it is absolute garbage, so I sold it all on eBay. Narco; "Not and Aviation Radio Company". I've heard it so many times.

If this thing flies nicely, and I decide to keep it, I'll fit a decent GPS Nav Com. For now, however, I have fitted a Becker AR-3201 (my future Com 2). They're great radios - super kleine und super Deutsche Qualitat.

I don't want to run a big expensive audio panel, so I bought a tiny AP-60 audio mixer to handle all the inputs. I had a Sigtronics SPA-4S kicking around, so that's my intercom.

The problem I'm having is, I'm not sure how to wire it all together.

Can anyone help? This is what I think I need to do (I'ver stripped-down the SPA-4S diagram to remove the stuff I'm not using)...

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Becker AR-3201 Pinout

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Notes:

1. I presume I need to join pins 10 & 11 on the Becker.

2. Do I need to use the PTT on the Becker rather than the SPA-4S?
 
Becker 3201 is a great radio. Don't join 10 & 11, they are mic high & low - the drawing shows one is the shield of the other, you can use a twisted shielded pair (or 2 from a twisted shielded triple).

PTT is only grounding pin 12. Bear in mind 3201 was designed at least 25 years ago, things have moved on since then. Ignore the PTT on a headset (pin 5 on separate connector block). It doesn't matter if you take the PTT line back to the radio or use the line(s) from the intercom, it will all work the same, but the intercom will be better. Grounding the intercom white/red wire will open the pilot's mic (or the mic attached to the white/black wire) and grounding the white/blue wire will open the mic attached to the white/orange wire. There may even be some logic that gives the pilot (white/black) priority over the other headset.

Pete
 
Jamlip, I'm pretty sure you are referring to the little circle around the mike wire (11). If so, that is symbol for the shield that surrounds that wire. So, no you do not join pins 10 and 11 on the Becker.
 
Becker 3201 is a great radio. Don't join 10 & 11, they are mic high & low - the drawing shows one is the shield of the other, you can use a twisted shielded pair (or 2 from a twisted shielded triple).

PTT is only grounding pin 12. Bear in mind 3201 was designed at least 25 years ago, things have moved on since then. Ignore the PTT on a headset (pin 5 on separate connector block). It doesn't matter if you take the PTT line back to the radio or use the line(s) from the intercom, it will all work the same, but the intercom will be better. Grounding the intercom white/red wire will open the pilot's mic (or the mic attached to the white/black wire) and grounding the white/blue wire will open the mic attached to the white/orange wire. There may even be some logic that gives the pilot (white/black) priority over the other headset.

Pete

Jamlip, I'm pretty sure you are referring to the little circle around the mike wire (11). If so, that is symbol for the shield that surrounds that wire. So, no you do not join pins 10 and 11 on the Becker.

Thank you both. Yes, I see the shielding now... not sure what I was thinking (it was late at night?).

Pete - if I, in the future, want to make the 3201 a Com 2 and add a nice GPS Nav Com unit as a Com 1, would it make more sense to use the PTT from the 3201 so that I can later add a switch to control whether I'm talking via Com 1 or Com 2?

The guy that sold me the radio was well against the switch idea and wanted me to use an audio panel. If all I'm aiming to do is switch the mic, I'd rather save a thousand bucks and not add weight to the aircraft.

(All this said, I'd probably only ever use Com 2 to listen to ATIS, so perhaps the better solution, down the line, would be to have the 3201 feeding into the AP-60 mixer, with PTT triggering the Com 1 only).
 
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