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View Poll Results: What did you install?
Garmin 64 26.56%
Dynon 82 34.02%
AFS 40 16.60%
MGL 12 4.98%
Grand Rapids 50 20.75%
Chelton 0 0%
Aspen 1 0.41%
Other 3 1.24%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 241. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old 11-22-2019, 09:00 AM
Carl Froehlich's Avatar
Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leok View Post
I went with Garmin because I wanted to deal with a single source for any troubleshooting, and I wanted minimal issues on compatibility.

I priced out what I wanted with several vendors and found the prices within $2K on a $33K total bill. I didn’t see that as a deciding factor.

SNIP.
This is ~$5K over the price I paid for my new project; dual SkyView HDX displays (with all the associated modules), Dynon radio for Comm #2, transponder, dual axis autopilot, ADS-B receiver, EMS, PS Engineering audio panel and the clunky (but TSO certified) GTN-650.

I have a lot of RV-10 IFR hours flying with the SkyView system - and recommend it.

Carl
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  #32  
Old 11-22-2019, 09:16 AM
airguy's Avatar
airguy airguy is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Garden City, Tx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberwolf View Post
Just curious if you have any data to put a little weight behind that claim. I think that’s a bold statement since neither Dynon nor GRT have an organic WAAS GPS navigator while Garmin dominates the market with numerous offerings. I would say it’s hard not to justify them as the industry leader when other systems still rely on a Garmin (or avidyne) product. Not very scientific, but next time you go to an experimental fly in take a look at the number of Garmin vs others. I’ve installed 16 G5’s in customer aircraft over the last 2 years and haven’t had a single request for the Dynon offering.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sjarrell View Post
I, and I'm sure others, would be very interested to see the facts that you base your opinion/comments on. Also, the OP's question was "what would you choose and why" which you didn't answer.

IN MY OPINION, your answer to the OP's question would be much more relevant, and accurate, than your PERSONAL OPINION on Garmin's (or any other manufacturer's) popularity or position in the market.

Also, how you can accurately measure the "headway" any manufacturer is making against another in this market is a mystery to me. I'd love to know how you came to that conclusion / statement of fact.
I voted in the poll - so you've got my opinion there, thanks for asking. Anyone who pays the slightest bit of attention to these boards knows that I run all-glass Dynon, with a G430W for IFR. The thread is about EFIS - not IFR GPS - so the poll is the data I'm using for the statement. The trending is concerning our EFIS installs, as requested by the OP - not IFR GPS boxes.
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  #33  
Old 11-22-2019, 09:34 AM
622BH 622BH is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Albany, OR
Posts: 118
Default Emphatically YES!

Dual AFS 5600T EFIS installed.
Yes, I would do it all over again in a heartbeat. For me - AFS is local; service was never required under or out of warranty; customer support is fantastic and only a phone call or email away.
Quality of build is top-notch; operability is easy - even for non-pilot wife, who is iPad aware (touch screen operation became intuitive for her).
I really like the Left - Right - Left scan while under IFR conditions. No "V" scan required as everything is on the same horizontal plane.

So, emphatically YES, I would install dual EFIS again, and the first choice would be Advance Flight Systems.
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  #34  
Old 11-22-2019, 10:37 AM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
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Location: Garden City, Tx
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Originally Posted by 622BH View Post
So, emphatically YES, I would install dual EFIS again, and the first choice would be Advance Flight Systems.
Which is part of Dynon now, so actually those two poll choices should be combined. And they certainly have taken a chunk out of the Garmin EFIS market, regardless of what some Garmin fanboys would like to believe.

I'm not against Garmin products - I have their 430W in my panel and it works great. I'm not going to cheerlead for them though, just as I don't cheerlead for Dynon or anyone else. They have different features and we have different missions. Pick the ones that work for you.
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N16GN flying 500 hrs and counting! Built an off-plan 9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
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  #35  
Old 11-22-2019, 10:53 AM
morganjp morganjp is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 251
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Where is the choice for both Garmin and Dynon? Those owners converting older steam gauge panels might not want the expense of a total conversion to to a 10 inch screen or 2 7 inch screens. I have a Garmin G5 for the EFIS and a Dynon D10 A for the HSI for the Garmin 430 W and Dynon autopilot. The D10 A is also a backup EFIS totally independent if needed. No more vacuum pump, DG or Attitude indicator to fail.
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  #36  
Old 11-22-2019, 04:39 PM
dutchroll dutchroll is offline
 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FasGlas View Post
I installed a dual MGL iEFIS system. I was attracted to the iEFIS since it can be configured just about any way you want and can be expanded. I have a very unusual setup on my screens.. That being said, MGL has the absolute worst to non existent support or service and worthless documentation. Rainier couldn't care less about bugs, failures or suggestions. I would never purchase another MGL product again.
I have an MGL iEFIS Explorer (the 8.5” screen) and would’ve put in a Challenger (10.4” screen) except for the fact it won’t physically fit.

I love it. These things are so customisable in terms of screen layouts and peripherals but to redesign the screen needs a bit of familiarity working with windows style file managers etc and veering from default setups is not for the faint hearted. The CAN bus design is excellent and the engine monitoring setup is pretty easy and flexible.

Rainier..... I think he sometimes gets a bad rap. This guy is the founder and technical genius behind MGL stuff and writes his own software code, does all of the hardware design and integration, etc. He arguably may bite off more than he can chew and I’d be surprised if he finds time to sleep but he most certainly does correct software/firmware bugs. It is simply untrue to suggest otherwise. But the best guy to turn to when “I can’t get my sensor x to work” or “I need help with the setup menu” is at MGL USA, Matt Liknaitzky. Put a support request in there and you’ll get quick and accurate help. Or the online forum can work sometimes too. For failures, I had one input fail on an RDAC (engine monitoring box) and a replacement was sent, no questions asked.

Suggestions are very subjective. Try suggesting a change to how something works on Garmin hardware and see how you go. If only one or two people suggest it but everyone else is happy, it is not worth the development time for the designer who will say “thanks for your input” (if you’re lucky) and ignore it.

The MGL documentation is a problem. It’s getting better on new devices now but seems to have been quite haphazard in the past (including the iEFIS) and is spread across multiple online documents. If you want to see confusing documentation, try flying an Airbus jet.

I don’t work for them. I have an MGL iEFIS Explorer, V16 VHF Com, and SP12 2020 compliant GPS connected to the Trig transponder via the MGL-Trig interface and it’s hard to beat on cost vs functionality, but just doesn’t have the “brand name” following and is a pretty small company relative to the other players.
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  #37  
Old 11-22-2019, 05:04 PM
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RV8iator RV8iator is offline
 
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Location: Saint Simons Island , GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ty1295 View Post
My number is surely a guess, and based on the 6 RV's I know of directly on my field, 0 are flown IFR. So we are both guessing or making assumptions based on our personal exposure to the RV world.

Just another base point.
Of the other 11 very active RV’s I flew with all 12 of us flew a bunch of IFR all the time. Still do.
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  #38  
Old 11-22-2019, 05:39 PM
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FasGlas FasGlas is offline
 
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Location: Prescott, AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchroll View Post
I have an MGL iEFIS Explorer (the 8.5” screen) and would’ve put in a Challenger (10.4” screen) except for the fact it won’t physically fit.

I love it. These things are so customisable in terms of screen layouts and peripherals but to redesign the screen needs a bit of familiarity working with windows style file managers etc and veering from default setups is not for the faint hearted. The CAN bus design is excellent and the engine monitoring setup is pretty easy and flexible.

Rainier..... I think he sometimes gets a bad rap. This guy is the founder and technical genius behind MGL stuff and writes his own software code, does all of the hardware design and integration, etc. He arguably may bite off more than he can chew and I’d be surprised if he finds time to sleep but he most certainly does correct software/firmware bugs. It is simply untrue to suggest otherwise. But the best guy to turn to when “I can’t get my sensor x to work” or “I need help with the setup menu” is at MGL USA, Matt Liknaitzky. Put a support request in there and you’ll get quick and accurate help. Or the online forum can work sometimes too. For failures, I had one input fail on an RDAC (engine monitoring box) and a replacement was sent, no questions asked.

Suggestions are very subjective. Try suggesting a change to how something works on Garmin hardware and see how you go. If only one or two people suggest it but everyone else is happy, it is not worth the development time for the designer who will say “thanks for your input” (if you’re lucky) and ignore it.

The MGL documentation is a problem. It’s getting better on new devices now but seems to have been quite haphazard in the past (including the iEFIS) and is spread across multiple online documents. If you want to see confusing documentation, try flying an Airbus jet.

I don’t work for them. I have an MGL iEFIS Explorer, V16 VHF Com, and SP12 2020 compliant GPS connected to the Trig transponder via the MGL-Trig interface and it’s hard to beat on cost vs functionality, but just doesn’t have the “brand name” following and is a pretty small company relative to the other players.
There are advantages to MGL's iEFIS, mostly it's ability to add just about anything to it, and the price... Matt is a great guy but his technical knowledge is limited. Then you have to deal with Rainier, the one man band. I installed this dual iEFIS some years back (G2 / now G3) and there's still problems with it, problems I have discussed with both Rainier and Matt and all I ever get is "Crickets". Fuel Flow never worked, EGT's read way below actual temps, just to name a few issues. MGL is made for people who's willing to do without documentation and support. I learned to design screens, figure the math and trick the iEFIS into doing all kinds of stuff but I expect it will never fully function and I'll eventually have to toss it. Had I known about MGL support, or lack of, I never would have bought this system. I wish someone posted a poll like this when I was looking to upgrade.
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  #39  
Old 11-22-2019, 06:54 PM
dutchroll dutchroll is offline
 
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Well..... your experience is not my experience and I've got a pretty unique setup.

I don't think there are too many people asking the MGL EFIS to measure 18 thermocouple inputs, a fuel flow from zero up to 150 litres(40 US Gal)/hour, and numerous other parameters. We've had minor glitches here and there but nothing unsolvable.

You know, avionics problems causing major dramas can happen with any vendor. Including Boeing and Airbus. Maybe one day I'll tell you about what happened to one of our Airbus aircraft recently. Caused a significant inflight emergency. Suffice to say a number of electrical control panels and related items got stripped out of the plane and sent back to the manufacturer to try to figure out what happened (and still no-one knows why). It doesn't mean it's the "norm".
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  #40  
Old 11-22-2019, 07:48 PM
rightrudder rightrudder is offline
 
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Loving my GRT Sport SX and would buy another in a heartbeat. Perfect for my day/night VFR -9A.

What sold me was the straightforward, readable presentation of instruments/information; the Dynon stuff has a little too much "Tokyo by night" clutter going on, IMO. Also, AHRS built into the unit makes mounting simple.
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