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  #21  
Old 11-22-2019, 11:58 AM
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jnorris jnorris is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NinerBikes View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you need to take a 120 hr course to get your A&P Certificate? Someone here, set me straight.
The 120 hour course is for a Light Sport Repairman Certificate with a Maintenance rating. The A&P certificate requires far more training and experience.

The 120 hour repairman certificate course has nothing to do with amateur-built aircraft. It does not apply. It only relates to SLSA and ELSA aircraft.
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  #22  
Old 11-22-2019, 12:01 PM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
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Originally Posted by jrtens View Post
There is quite a difference between an E-AB RV-12 and an ELSA RV-12. Most RV-12s are ELSA. Is that what you mean?
Most are built exactly to plan, and then certified for airworthiness. Which is my understanding what makes them Experimental Light Sport Aircraft.

Experiment Amateur Build, the builder can make all kinds of modifications in the build, such that the plane is a one off, or a custom build, that only the builder knows everything on what was put into it, changes made, modifications that occurred during the build, before the plane was certified.

The second owner might not know what to check during annuals if they buy an E-AB build, there aren't exactly blueprints for everything in the build, before it's certified.

You buy a E-LSA and if you get the blueprints that came with the plane, it should be exactly built to the plans. You get a known quantity with an E -LSA. You don't know everything you are getting with a E-AB build. Perhaps, that's why it takes a more experienced A&P to do your annuals on a E-AB.

I would think that talking with someone smart and knowledgeable at your local EAA chapter could help sort things out better on the differences.

Last edited by NinerBikes : 11-22-2019 at 12:04 PM.
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  #23  
Old 11-22-2019, 12:05 PM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorris View Post
The 120 hour course is for a Light Sport Repairman Certificate with a Maintenance rating. The A&P certificate requires far more training and experience.

The 120 hour repairman certificate course has nothing to do with amateur-built aircraft. It does not apply. It only relates to SLSA and ELSA aircraft.
Thank you , Joe!
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  #24  
Old 11-22-2019, 12:07 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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The often refered to 120 hr course is the course taken to get a Light Sport Repairman - Maintenenace certificate.
It is the minimum certification required for maintaining (other than the simple preventative maint. that owners are allowed to do) and inspecting (annual or 100 Hr condition inspections) an SLSA.

It is not the same as an A&P certificate for working on type certificated aircraft.
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Last edited by rvbuilder2002 : 11-22-2019 at 12:29 PM.
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  #25  
Old 11-22-2019, 12:14 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NinerBikes View Post

You buy a E-LSA and if you get the blueprints that came with the plane, it should be exactly built to the plans. You get a known quantity with an E -LSA.
Not necessarily true........

Once an ELSA has received its airworthiness certificate, it can be legally modified... even extensively, as long as the modifications do not cause any changes that would make it no longer meet the qualifying requirements to be an LSA (higher stall speed or cruise speed than allowed, etc.)
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  #26  
Old 11-22-2019, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NinerBikes View Post
Most are built exactly to plan, and then certified for airworthiness. Which is my understanding what makes them Experimental Light Sport Aircraft.
Not automatically. Even if the aircraft is built 100% in accordance with the instructions, the builder/applicant has the option of certificating the aircraft as either ELSA or amateur-built. There are pluses and minuses to each choice. True, a large percentage of the RV-12s built to the instructions get certificated as ELSA, but it is not automatic or required.
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  #27  
Old 11-22-2019, 04:36 PM
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Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrtens View Post
There is quite a difference between an E-AB RV-12 and an ELSA RV-12. Most RV-12s are ELSA. Is that what you mean?
When buying pre-owned RV-12 it is important to check Airworthiness Cert to see how it is registered with the FAA (EAB, E-LSA, or S-LSA). Don't take seller's word - need to check documentation.
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  #28  
Old 11-25-2019, 02:54 PM
ben barron ben barron is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
The 16 hr course gets you a Light Sport Repairman - Inspector certificate to use for inspecting an ELSA that you own.
A 120 hr course gets you a Light Sport Repairman-Maintenance certificate. That allows doing any work beyond the general items allowed for an owner and condition inspections on SLSA's.
I built my RV12 ELSA. I went to the FAA office and after a short question and answer period received my "Repairman Light Sport Aircraft" "Certificate". No 16 hour course. I just reconfirmed with our local FAA-DAR this is all I need to complete my annual condition inspections.
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  #29  
Old 11-25-2019, 04:16 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben barron View Post
I built my RV12 ELSA. I went to the FAA office and after a short question and answer period received my "Repairman Light Sport Aircraft" "Certificate". No 16 hour course. I just reconfirmed with our local FAA-DAR this is all I need to complete my annual condition inspections.
Then you experienced what is fairly common within the FAA... someone issued you the certificate without having a full understanding of what was required.

I suggest you look at it carefully and make sure it is a Light Sport Repairman - Inspector certificate
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  #30  
Old 11-25-2019, 04:21 PM
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You may want to reference the FAR before you use that certificate.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/65.107
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