What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Inlet/outlet opening ratio-CHT's

n815vp

Member
Have had higher CHT's for the first 30 hours on a new 0-320 ,rv9a. Allowing for engine break-in, Didn't do anything but think about the newer Vans cowls that have an approx. inlet to oulet area ratio of 1.
Yesterday added (2) louvers (aviation tech products) to the lower cowl and Presto! the CHT's dropped signifigantly.
Don't know what it did to change speed,but don't care. a fast Hot plane doesn't work for me.
 
LOU-11

The Lou-11's were installed about an inch forward of the firewall on either side of the lower cowl about 2 inches outboard of the outlet tunnel sides.
The CHT's prior to this mod. would get to 410/420 F in the takeoff climb at 1000 feet with 125 mph, 75/80 F surface.
Today with the louvers it was climbout approx 1200 ft/min to 3000ft full power and CHT's just turning to 400.
 
Cruise?

Has is made any improvement at cruise speeds?

I usually hit 425 on one cylinder on a hot day when climbing out and they stabilize around 380 in cruise.
 
Interesting

A hot O320...Are you sure you glassed in one side of the ramps in the upper half of the cowl..These temps seem a little high.

Also has anyone ever used a cowl flap?

My SJ is a little marginal in a climb on a hot day but cools off nicely in cruise which is what you'd expect.

Seems to me an ajustable cowl flap would be the best of both worlds at th expense of some complexity.

Does anyone have a good design they could post pictures off?

Frank
IO360 now featuring 10% ethanol
 
A hot O320...Are you sure you glassed in one side of the ramps in the upper half of the cowl..These temps seem a little high.

Between this forum, and at the airport, I'm seeing numerous "hot" 0320's on 9's. The owner of the 9A that I've flown.........does have the ramps sealed with glass. I'm going to pass on the info from this thread, regarding the outlets.

However, we do use a high altitude airport, and the summer has been hot. But CHT's are easily running beyond 420 degrees on climbout if you don't keep an eye on it, and lower the climb rate. Cruise is about 380. This is cylinder #3, and there is the air dam in front of cylinder #1.

L.Adamson
 
Frank,

I'm flying with the SJ cowl/plenum. I do have 9:1 pistons for 170hp on my O-320. I just ordered the louvers to install on the bottom of my cowl to see if that brings the temps down. The good thing is that it will be easy to test with/without on the same day to get real numbers, I can just tape over them (on the inside) to get a baseline and then remove the tape afterwards.

I did not trim the cowl exit opening to make it larger. There was an RV-9A at Osh with the SJ cowl and he had trimmed the bottom cowl at an angle to increase the size of the cowl exit area. Mine is just cut straight down.

Matthew

A hot O320...Are you sure you glassed in one side of the ramps in the upper half of the cowl..These temps seem a little high.

Also has anyone ever used a cowl flap?

My SJ is a little marginal in a climb on a hot day but cools off nicely in cruise which is what you'd expect.

Seems to me an ajustable cowl flap would be the best of both worlds at th expense of some complexity.

Does anyone have a good design they could post pictures off?

Frank
IO360 now featuring 10% ethanol
 
Glassing in ramps

This Rv9a has an air tight plenum with the inlet completely sealed .That's what surprised me regarding my coooling.I thought with the plenum all would be cool. But in my view, with the exit air being restricted the plenum didn't provide the benefit intended.
If you look at RV6a's and older model Rv9a outlets they have more exit area because the tunnel drops down lower.
 
Proper Fuel Flow

You guys that are running hot on climbs......
Have you checked your fuel flow on climb out?
Fuel is used for cooling in the climb at WOT.
Just a thought.
 
Yes but

Frank,

I'm flying with the SJ cowl/plenum. I do have 9:1 pistons for 170hp on my O-320. I just ordered the louvers to install on the bottom of my cowl to see if that brings the temps down. The good thing is that it will be easy to test with/without on the same day to get real numbers, I can just tape over them (on the inside) to get a baseline and then remove the tape afterwards.

I did not trim the cowl exit opening to make it larger. There was an RV-9A at Osh with the SJ cowl and he had trimmed the bottom cowl at an angle to increase the size of the cowl exit area. Mine is just cut straight down.

Matthew

Assuming here the fuel flows are correct...I get perfectly acceptable temps in cruise, just on hot days during the climb this can be a challenge.

Running the SJ cowl is primarily because it both looks nice and hopefully gives a bit more speed..

I would hate to have to add fixed louvers and loose the extra speed..Thats why a cowl flap is attracr=tive to me.

Mind you the before after experiment will be useful to see what kind of improvement can b expected with a cowl flap.

Let us know what you find Matthew.

Frank
 
cowl flaps

Almost all the Eggenfellner installations use a cowl flap. The design is quite simple. It uses a 12v actuator to keep it closed in flight. Some who tried a manual cable were surprised to find out that the "natural" position is open, meaning that the pressure under the cowl was very high.

It really seems like there is still a lot of research to be done on optimizing engine cooling.

Some pictures are available here: http://www.eggenfellneraircraft.com/STi.htm
 
This Rv9a has an air tight plenum with the inlet completely sealed .That's what surprised me regarding my cooling.I thought with the plenum all would be cool. But in my view, with the exit air being restricted the plenum didn't provide the benefit intended.
If you look at RV6a's and older model Rv9a outlets they have more exit area because the tunnel drops down lower.

I would also suggest looking at your fuel flow, in other words is your main jet large enough? The way to find out is to start leaning (after reducing power to less than 75%). At 3000' you should see at least a 150F rise in EGT before the first cylinder reaches peak EGT and starts to cool. At 8000' try again at WOT and note the EGT rise from full rich before the 1st cylinder peaks.

I believe the lean main jet size is 0.097". Larger main jets are available - or some suggest carefully drilling out one number drill size at a time. I have heard of people going to +0.007" (ie main jet = 0.104") with a significant (20 or 30F) reduction in climb CHTs.

At the same time I would check and check again that your plenum is doing what you think, are there any holes, and are all CHTs roughly equal - within 20 or 30F? Are your CHT probes calibrated?

I have louvres in my hangar and have not yet fitted them to my 6A (O-320 regular cowl). Every time I get close someone else pipes up and says don't install louvres, improve the baffling. I'm not sure that you lose very much installing louvres so they might be going in this winter!

Pete
 
I agree but also

I would also suggest looking at your fuel flow, in other words is your main jet large enough? The way to find out is to start leaning (after reducing power to less than 75%). At 3000' you should see at least a 150F rise in EGT before the first cylinder reaches peak EGT and starts to cool. At 8000' try again at WOT and note the EGT rise from full rich before the 1st cylinder peaks.

I believe the lean main jet size is 0.097". Larger main jets are available - or some suggest carefully drilling out one number drill size at a time. I have heard of people going to +0.007" (ie main jet = 0.104") with a significant (20 or 30F) reduction in climb CHTs.

At the same time I would check and check again that your plenum is doing what you think, are there any holes, and are all CHTs roughly equal - within 20 or 30F? Are your CHT probes calibrated?

I have louvres in my hangar and have not yet fitted them to my 6A (O-320 regular cowl). Every time I get close someone else pipes up and says don't install louvres, improve the baffling. I'm not sure that you lose very much installing louvres so they might be going in this winter!

Pete

Pete, you are right and good info but my RV-6 would pass the lean test while flying but failed miserably in the climb.!

I've found out the hard way the 0-360 A1A with the 10-3878 carb is too lean on takeoff for proper cooling. This was after glassing in the ramps and trimming the bottom of the cowling and sealing my baffels and cleaning cast flashing from my cylinder head cooling fins and setting timing and measuring inlet and outlet sizes, etc etc.

Van's should address this, but he doesn't for some reason.

The carb set up passes the lean rich test in flight and that is where Precision would stop blaming the induction setup and
start telling guys it is a airflow problem if you are overheating.

Look at AVWeb.......Pelican Perch ........John Deakin
Where should I run my engine Part #1 #2 and #3, print them out and read them.......very good info.
I cut and pasted a few critical paragraphs for you to get the idea of what he is teaching.

Part #1 link herehttp://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182179-1.htmlIf you take nothing else from this column, pay attention to that statement. That fuel flow is vital for cooling, and that redline is a minimum, not a maximum. The vast majority of all these engines are set too lean by the manufacturer's recommendation! Almost all mechanics will resist this idea, and they seem to think that if the book specifies a fuel flow redline, then a little less than redline is somehow "better." If you cannot get your mechanic to set this up properly, find a mechanic who will. If your full-power fuel flow is a bit over redline, so much the better! You can always manually lean it back to redline if you wish, but you can't do much with a fuel flow that is less than redline. Even half a gallon per hour can make a large difference in CHTs right after takeoff, and during climb. Normal climb CHT in a well-baffled normally aspirated engine is around 330?F at full power and sea level, at any decent climb airspeed. CHT might be higher if you insist on low climb airspeeds. If you see higher CHTs on your engine monitor, your fuel flow is too low. A lot of these fuel flow indicators are not very accurate at all, and most are not even true fuel flow gauges at all. They're pressure gauges, marked in flow. We really like digital fuel flow systems that have been calibrated by actual tests for this reason. If your redline is 27.0 GPH, and you get only 26.5, have it set higher.

Part #2 link here:http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182176-1.html

I will also repeat from the previous column, YOU MUST BE GETTING FULL REDLINE FUEL FLOW at full takeoff power AT SEA LEVEL! In truth, the factory redlines are often a bit on the low side, and flows should be tweaked up just a bit. Even a half-gallon per hour makes a BIG difference in CHTs during climb.



In general, and speaking very roughly, if you see EGTs anywhere over about 1,300?F (lower will not hurt a thing and is probably ?better?) during a sea-level takeoff, or CHTs above about 360?F right after takeoff, YOUR FUEL FLOW IS TOO LOW. Having a good understanding of the proper relationship between the EGTs and the fuel flow at very rich mixture settings will always give you a good cross-check on whether or not you are getting adequate fuel flow -- even if your fuel flow needle breaks off and falls to the bottom of the instrument!



If your fuel flow is too low on takeoff, don't let your mechanic talk you out of setting it up a bit, and if necessary, find a mechanic who will do it. VERY few mechanics understand the importance of this. Far too many mechanics consider the fuel flow redline a maximum, and they consider a little bit less as "good," or "better for the engine," thinking they are being "conservative." After all, we all like to stay a little bit (or a lot) away from all sorts of redlines, right? That fuel flow redline is a MINIMUM, not a maximum. Treat it as such.



Part #3 link here:

http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182583-1.html

Again, read his articles to put everything in context.......
Good Luck.
 
Bob,

I agree, Deakin's stuff is very good. The only caution I would add is that he is talking about the Continental fuel injection system that has an adjustable fuel flow (I believe it uses fuel flow as the control variable where as the Lyc/Bendix system uses fuel pressure). The only adjustment we have of the full rich fuel flow is the main jet!

Pete
 
Normal fuel flow on 0-320 on takeoff

Can someone tell me what fuel flow I should be seeing at full power and at sea level? Engine has HC pistons. My flow says about 13gph. Not sure this is enough, since my #1 is running at 420 even with shallow climbs. Normal temps during cruise.
 
Back
Top