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RV-7A Garet's RV project

Aero_Octaveus

Well Known Member
Hi All, Thought I would formally introduce myself here. This is my first RV (In fact first any kind of plane) and a total newbie when it comes to building real planes. I've grown up around planes as my father was an Air Traffic Controller for his entire career and he also had his private pilots license. In my late teen's though the family went different directions and I just didn't stick with planes.

I have great memories of touring the Glasair Factory in the early 90's and disassembling dad's taylorcraft for restoration. Not to mention the airshows at the Boeing Field!:)

I hope that I can get back to my roots and pick up where I left off so many years ago, and share that with my kids!

http://garetsrv.blogspot.ca/
 
Welcome Garet!

You're in good company here. As you probably know there is a great resource of archived and human knowledge (and opinions) here on VAF. Check in regularly and often.

Bevan
Abbotsford BC
 
I have an 7A also -flying.
Glad that you are building. Fun project, frustrating also at time, hang in there it will be worth it. There is plenty of help if you need it here on this site.
Dave/ Indiana
 
Welcome

Welcome Garet. Good choice. Remember, this is supposed to be fun so if you get frustrated, take a step back and remind yourself it's fun. Get the family involved so it's family fun.
 
Well thank you guys! Great advice! I've already have my son sorting tools. I have to laugh cause he's in it like a dirty shirt already! (he's only 3)

First big snag tonight. I think i'm going to hate riveting! My tool box went together so nice...it was precision & perfection. Then I dimpled using the pneumatic squeezer, so so....the hinges bowed. Still ok. The I started to rivet....Holy! I tried the squeezer, it was ok after i figured out how to tease the trigger to close the gap and center it on the rivet. Then i pulled out the 3X rivet gun and proceeded to nearly destroy the tool box!!! Things were moving everywhere, trying to push with the rivet gun, hold the bucking bar, box moving around, some rivets sticking up, had about 1 rivet in 15 that were nice!
 
Garet
This is one of those things you will need some help on. If you have an EAA chapter nearby, someone will be willing to show you the intricacies of riveting. Then you will need to practice quite a bit before taking the gun to the aircraft. You'll also need someone to help buck the rivets in several areas, so work on training a good friend as well. A good mentor from our chapter came over one day and taught my wife and I how to rivet, we practiced and then she bucked all my rivets and I shot them with the gun.
Best,
Jerry Folkerts
 
Practice

Garet
This is one of those things you will need some help on. If you have an EAA chapter nearby, someone will be willing to show you the intricacies of riveting. Then you will need to practice quite a bit before taking the gun to the aircraft. You'll also need someone to help buck the rivets in several areas, so work on training a good friend as well. A good mentor from our chapter came over one day and taught my wife and I how to rivet, we practiced and then she bucked all my rivets and I shot them with the gun.
Best,
Jerry Folkerts

+1
Practice. Buy some scrap of similar thickness to the skin and rib parts.
Set lots of rivets. 426 and 470. Drill them out. Repeat.
Use different tools, sets, bars and the back plate. Find the pressure settings that work for your gun and your preference. Write them down.
You can't practice enough and drilling is as important as setting. I usually practice if I've been away for a couple days.

You may want to build the other practice kit.

Also, I don't understand why they have noobies dimple the hinge. It warps the part. Every hinge on the airplane is countersunk.
 
Stay with it, Garet! Some of my "practice" mistakes are evident on my horizontal stab?mostly the underside, thankfully. In hindsight, I should've bought both practice kits and not just the toolbox.

Air pressure is key. Too much and the set will bounce all over the place and make "smilies" and dings. Too little, and it'll take forever to set each rivet, and the rivet will work-harden because it's been hit too many times.

For the flush set, here's a tip that was passed along to me: Put heavy duty clear packing tape over the heads of the flush rivets. It'll give the mushroom set a little "traction" and reduce the skating action.

Also, clamp your work down as much as possible. This is probably the single biggest thing that helped me get better results. Whenever I tried to fake it without clamping, it was almost guaranteed that I'd have to drill out a rivet or two. Ultimately, "shortcuts" make for more work!!

Don't get discouraged; your work will improve. :)
 
Lessons Learned

Well...That was a bit of an eye opener. Wirejock, Rightrudder....Thank you for your advice!! Turned down the air pressure, practiced on scrap pieces. Have everything dialed in and my pressure setting noted for a given rivet size. (The EAA video on riveting helped lots too)

Toolbox finished! I finished two.....but the third is complete perfection.:D:D

Lessons learned; 1. Do not have your wife hold the lid up while you try to rivet the handle to the lid. your rivet gun will slip off and dent the lid...twice. Clamp the lid! 2. Countersink the bottom hinge but dimple the top one. If you countersink the top hinge it's really difficult to have the top sheet nest correctly. Dimpling it works great. 3. It's amazing how much better your third one is than your first and coincidentally is done in a third the time :eek:

(P.S. I have time to kill while I wait for the Canadian Govn't to give me the green light to start my build):(
 
Practice kit

Stay with it, Garet! Some of my "practice" mistakes are evident on my horizontal stab?mostly the underside, thankfully. In hindsight, I should've bought both practice kits and not just the toolbox.

Air pressure is key. Too much and the set will bounce all over the place and make "smilies" and dings. Too little, and it'll take forever to set each rivet, and the rivet will work-harden because it's been hit too many times.

For the flush set, here's a tip that was passed along to me: Put heavy duty clear packing tape over the heads of the flush rivets. It'll give the mushroom set a little "traction" and reduce the skating action.

Also, clamp your work down as much as possible. This is probably the single biggest thing that helped me get better results. Whenever I tried to fake it without clamping, it was almost guaranteed that I'd have to drill out a rivet or two. Ultimately, "shortcuts" make for more work!!

Don't get discouraged; your work will improve. :)

Good tips here.
I use the heavy packing tape too. I use a sharpie and draw a "+" on the sticky side. It helps me place the center of the mushroom set over the rivet.
Build the other practice kit Garet. You need to know how to roll leading edges and rivet a trailing edge.
The other advise would be to search VAF before starting any component. Sometimes Vans instructions are not the best way to do things. Case in point, z-brackets.
 
Face Palm!!!

Well. The bright side is that I think I have enough material to write a book on what not to do in RV building! I've barely started the build and I'm sure the shipping dept at Van's knows my address of by heart and i'm on a first name basis with the fed ex guy. (We are having beers friday!)

I didn't think that I'd have to build a practice plane while I built the real one.:rolleyes:
 
Well...I guess that was short lived

It's official. I formally have given up trying to build this plane. Everytime I touch something on it, i've drilled it wrong, bent something, scratched it. The most frustrating part, is getting everything perfect and primed and then messing up riveting something and ruining the entire part. The sad thing is I haven't even constructed one full piece and I've spent more than $1000 in additional parts with shipping. I just do not have the skill or patience to work with aluminum.

Sucks.

By the way....I have a complete barely used Isham RV Tool set for sale.
 
Help

It's official. I formally have given up trying to build this plane. Everytime I touch something on it, i've drilled it wrong, bent something, scratched it. The most frustrating part, is getting everything perfect and primed and then messing up riveting something and ruining the entire part. The sad thing is I haven't even constructed one full piece and I've spent more than $1000 in additional parts with shipping. I just do not have the skill or patience to work with aluminum.

Sucks.

By the way....I have a complete barely used Isham RV Tool set for sale.

Garet
I'm sure you know what's best for you but I can only hope someone nearby will help. The beginning is frustrating. We all have scratches and dents. Unless you plan to polish, no one will know. We all have a pile of damaged parts. Your skills will improve. Please keep trying.
 
Thanks Wirejock

Thanks for the reassuring words Wirejock. It's been bugging me to let this defeat me so soon. Yeah...you are right...the guys at the EAA meetings are great, but maybe it's time to call in the cavalry and have them over to help a bit.

Kids don't teach you patience.....Building RV's do!!
 
Patience

Thanks for the reassuring words Wirejock. It's been bugging me to let this defeat me so soon. Yeah...you are right...the guys at the EAA meetings are great, but maybe it's time to call in the cavalry and have them over to help a bit.

Kids don't teach you patience.....Building RV's do!!

Boy there's some truth!
I wish I were closer. I would come by any time. If I can help, e-mail any time. We're building the same model.
Wirejock at yahoo dot com
 
Thanks for the reassuring words Wirejock. It's been bugging me to let this defeat me so soon. Yeah...you are right...the guys at the EAA meetings are great, but maybe it's time to call in the cavalry and have them over to help a bit.

Kids don't teach you patience.....Building RV's do!!

Glad to see you're back at it, Garet! Just know that you are not alone - just look at this community! Starting a build is nerve-wracking. Everything is new and it's easy to doubt yourself every step. Before long though, you'll gain confidence and find your groove. You'll be the one helping new builders before you know it! This hobby is definitely a marathon not a sprint, and you'll still periodically have to just walk away and take a break. But all and all, the rewards are so much more than the frustrations.
 
Well I would disagree on the kids vs RV for learning patience! Even though mine are grown, you will always be a parent. You can always sell the kit. :D

Back to your situation. You mention attending the local EAA chapter meetings. This is an excellent way to network and find resources (other builders, information, etc.) I would also suggest to ask if there is a local EAA Tech Counselor, these people are very knowledgeable and can help you with the basics. From there, everybody pretty much learns as they go. And, as mentioned, practice on scrap x10! Buy the "Practice Project - Control Surface" if you haven't already and engage an EAA member to help you build it.

Your profile states you are an Electrical Engineer (I won't hold that against you :rolleyes: ) so you will figure this out. Just remember to look back now and then to see what you have accomplished, that includes your family also.
 
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Ahhh Bustin my chops aeroaddict. LOL, Guess I need it now and then.

Well...The good news is that I pushed through the barrier and completed the VS. Its not 100% perfect as I had to use 2 oops rivets and I think my skin is a tad underdimpled, but I will say that I am fairly proud how it turned out. I was building up riveting the skin to be quite a bit more difficult than it turned out to be. I think I gained a bit of confidence back :D.

In hindsight, I've learned an absolute ton so far....I wish there was a handy Newbies guide to RV building that I could have referenced. Would have saved me a bunch of money and time (But I guess that would defeat the spirit of building an experimental/amateur built airplane...."for their own education or recreation")

IMG_0921.JPG
 
Success

Garet
Looks really great.
If it makes you feel any better, I just made scrap out of one of my flap spars. More parts for the junk pile.

I agree. I wish there was a "sticky" for gotchas and noobs on the 7 page.
Assuming you're moving on the the HS stab, I trust you've ordered the Service Bulletin parts, (unless they are already in your kit). Someone posted some errors in the SB instructions recently. You might want to search.
Build on
 
Outstanding

Well done!

I would venture to say, no plane is perfect. At Osh, if you walk the homebuilts, look at the tail feathers. Since these parts are first built, you will notice "oops" rivets in a lot of them.

I also have a pile of parts, still using my scrap flap skin to make brackets.

To Wirejock's point, be sure to order the 'SB' kit for the HS stab. Build on.
 
First Checkpoint Reached

Well, Its been a slow summer for plane building, but I managed to get the empennage ready for the pre-cover inspection. It's been quite a journey...Sometimes frustrating but always rewarding. I look back at some of my old posts and I chuckle. I have learned tons, and it's getting better and better as I keep moving forward. Thanks to all on VansAirforce with the wisdom that I've needed and will continue to need :D
 
Looks great! Just for future reference though its generally a good idea to use lighter colors for primer/base coats to ease inspection. Cracks show up as a dark hairline on a light colored base coat, defects that are easily seen on light colors may go undetected on darker colors.
 
Primer

I think the picture makes it look darker than it actually is, but you do raise a good point I didn't even think of. Excellent advice. I suppose it's best to leave what I have done up to this point and switch to a lighter colour primer. Thank you for the input.
 
That wingstand looks rock solid. I was wondering how you plan to rivet the skin on as you need good access for positioning both bucking bar and rivet gun.

I read some of the old entries in this thread. Remember back in November 2014 when you nearly gave up ? Look at you now, a seasoned builder with the most boring (i.e wing ribs) behind you. It looks great !
 
Uhhh. Yeah actually.

That wingstand looks rock solid. I was wondering how you plan to rivet the skin on as you need good access for positioning both bucking bar and rivet gun.

I read some of the old entries in this thread. Remember back in November 2014 when you nearly gave up ? Look at you now, a seasoned builder with the most boring (i.e wing ribs) behind you. It looks great !

Ahh thanks. I appreciate it. Yes, it actually feels like I am getting the hang of the process. It's become quite enjoyable now. Now for the black death! (Proseal)

Funny you mentioned that about the wingstand. I started clecoing the skins on and that just occurred to me. Haha. Its a bit tight on the last outboard rib. I moved the wings out to maximize the amount of room I have. I should be alright. Might need to get creative on bucking.
 
Hit a wall...Darn #8 dimples

Well...I've done it again. After quite a decent amount of progress without errors I came upon the dreaded #8 screw dimple cracks in the tank skins. Geeezzz:confused::confused::confused::mad:

Annoyed...Angry.... Fortunately I have not rivet anything together yet, but i'm really going to have to figure out how to solve this so I don't screwup the next set of skins.

Nothing like a good screw up to deflate your desire to build.
 
Well, It's Official

"I can't believe you started building your plane before even getting a pilot's license. No half way for you!" Said a friend to my when I explained my hobby. I had to take a moment...You know, I didn't really think twice about starting my build with no pilot's license. In one sense I can imagine that to one it may seem crazy, but is it? I think for me it all represented an adventure. Everyone's build is a story, and everyone's story is different. There was no question for me which came first. I wanted a project, I wanted to build something very cool. I wanted something challenging. And I think I got exactly what I was searching for. But...I knew that it was only time before I need to get on the license...

Well on holidays, I took my first official flying lesson :D. This guy is hooked!!! (Although....Was there any doubt??:p)
IMG_8203.JPG
 
Congrats!

Congratulations man! A great achievement, especially so while carrying on a build at the same time.
 
It is truly an addiction! Congrats. :D

Those Cherokees are very docile, forgiving planes. I flew one for about 8 hours last fall to get current. The window crank on the ceiling for elevator trim took some getting used to.... now which way for up???
 
Milestone reached - The wing flip

Well I fell like I have crossed a finish line. The top wing skins are riveted and the wings are now ready to come off the stand. The wing stand that I had build was a compact design...but it worked like a charm. True that access to the end ribs was limited. To dimple, or countersink the last 3" required the wing to be removed from the stand. but given that I could still park the cars in the garage it was a small price to pay, and only resulted in a few more build hours as I had to re-check level and wing twist any time I had to remove the wings off the stand. Which i've I had to guess total additional hours, I would peg it at about 10 total. But the best part of it all....the wing stand could be partially disassembled and rebuilt into the wing cart!

From this:
IMG_0099.JPG

To this:
IMG_0141.JPG
 
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