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Webinar: RV Aerobatics --- Tuesday 7 PM Central

ronschreck

Well Known Member
I will be hosting an EAA webinar on Tuesday evening (March 27th) at 7:00 PM central time to discuss RV Aerobatics. I?ll cover equipping your RV for aerobatics, the basics of aerobatic maneuvers and an introduction to competition aerobatics. This is not strictly for the competitor. Any RV pilot who is interested in becoming a safer pilot or those who just want to fly aerobatics for fun will get something out of this webinar. The webinar will last about one hour and you will have an opportunity to ask questions following the presentation or any time here on VAF. Click HERE to sign up for the webinar. Hope to see you there.

Ron Schreck
 
Already bookmarked Ron. If you're not already planning, please explain (in your webinar) about maneuvers to the left coming out much better, than to the right. OK, prop spinning right torque, I know, but even applying that knowledge, I still can't get them as good to the right as to the left.
 
Already bookmarked Ron. If you're not already planning, please explain (in your webinar) about maneuvers to the left coming out much better, than to the right. OK, prop spinning right torque, I know, but even applying that knowledge, I still can't get them as good to the right as to the left.

Hi Don,

I don't specifically address this in the webinar (but I might since you bring it up) but I'll mention it here just in case.

The only maneuver that is significantly impacted by torque effect is the hammerhead turn. Since you are at full power at the initiation of the turn it is always easier and preferable to turn left. Spins are not impacted by torque or P-factor as the engine is at idle and the effect is negligible. In fact, some RVs spin better to the right than the left. This is primarily due to small differences in trim. In competition you will need to know how to consistently perform spins in both directions but hammerheads should always be done to the left unless your propeller turns counter to the norm as with a M14 radial engine.
 
Right aileron rolls, right barrel rolls not affected?? (If it's not torque affecting my bad right aileron rolls and right barrel rolls, then I don't know what the heck is happening, or why they work out so much better to the left) ( Maybe I should fly stuff to the right with my left hand??)
 
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Signed up for this a couple of weeks back when it came out in the EAA mailing. Looking forward to it!
 
Right aileron rolls, right barrel rolls not affected?? (If it's not torque affecting my bad right aileron rolls and right barrel rolls, then I don't know what the heck is happening, or why they work out so much better to the left) ( Maybe I should fly stuff to the right with my left hand??)

Nah, it's natural to roll a little better and more naturally one way vs. the other. Takes some work get them automatic in both directions. There's nothing about torque, slipstream, or gyroscopic effects that would favor a basic roll one way or the other at aileron rolls speeds. As already mentioned, there can be minor differences in spin characteristics left vs. right. Same with snaps, but you should be able to do snaps and spins both directions once you reach a certain level in competition acro.
 
Spins are not impacted by torque or P-factor as the engine is at idle and the effect is negligible. In fact, some RVs spin better to the right than the left. This is primarily due to small differences in trim.
Could there be some effect from fuselage asymmetry? Didn't the early RV's have a vertical stab offset, and later ones have an engine mount offset?
 
Could there be some effect from fuselage asymmetry? Didn't the early RV's have a vertical stab offset, and later ones have an engine mount offset?

Engine and vertical stabilizer offset is common on many airplanes but no combination of offset completely negates the effect of asymmetric blade effect (P-factor), torque and slipstream effect. P-factor is proportional to angle of attack so it is more pronounced at low airspeeds and is countered by rudder. Torque is always present when the engine is turning and is countered by aileron. Slipstream effect is the spiral slipstream generated by the propeller which impinges primarily on the left side of the vertical tail surfaces and is most evident at low speeds and is countered by rudder. All of these forces are impinging upon the aircraft at varying speeds, angle of attack and power settings. NONE can be completely negated at all speeds by any preset engine or rudder offset. Most designers try to optimize engine and trim for cruise airspeed which is not the flight regime that the aerobatic aircraft spends most of it's time. Therefore it is up to you, the pilot to correct for these factors by making the proper control inputs at all speeds and regardless of aircraft angle of attack or attitude. Few pilots come close to perfectly countering the above forces plus the effect of wind. Perfection is unattainable but the pursuit of perfection is a challenge worth the effort.
 
Webinar - TONIGHT - 7PM Central

Hope you can join me. The webinar will last about one hour and you will have an opportunity to ask questions at the conclusion. HERE is a link to sign up.
 
THANK YOU

Super job Ron tonight on the RV aerobatic webinar. Many of us started off in the dark about RVs and how to approach competition aerobatics years ago. Your talk tonight covered about everything and projected your motivation and enthusiasm. Look forward to seeing you next week in Florida at the first 2018 IAC contest.:D
Bill McLean
RV-4 slider
lower AL
 
Supposed to be on EAA's archive webinar site by tomorrow (Wednesday) afternoon. Just go on EAA's homepage. You'll find it. (I missed it too---by accident)
 
Webinar Questions ???

My thanks to the nearly 500 who tuned into the webinar last night. With only one hour to present the program and barely 20 minutes for questions I felt like we only scratched the surface of RV Aerobatics. I know that many of you posed questions that were never answered in the limited time available so I hope you will post your questions here on this thread so we can all discuss them in an open forum. I have received lots of questions via email and you are certainly welcome to use that avenue if you like. So bring it on!
 
Shoot, I missed it. is it archived anywhere?

Supposed to be on EAA's archive webinar site by tomorrow (Wednesday) afternoon. Just go on EAA's homepage. You'll find it. (I missed it too---by accident)

Was this recorded and posted anywhere? Wish I could have attended.

See post #14.

Here is a link to the Webinar.

It is valid now while I am posting it but could change in the future.
 
OUTSTANDING!!! Well done

Outstanding webinar, sometimes these can be so boring at times, I usually watch at 1.5 speed. Not this one, Ron, you did an outstanding job of making the subject clear, understandable and interesting with every comment.

I was surprised the RV14 maneuvering speed is 147kts, way above the others.
 
Outstanding webinar, sometimes these can be so boring at times, I usually watch at 1.5 speed. Not this one, Ron, you did an outstanding job of making the subject clear, understandable and interesting with every comment.

I was surprised the RV14 maneuvering speed is 147kts, way above the others.

That surprised me too! Maybe someone on the forum can tell us why the RV14 maneuvering speed is almost 25 knots faster than that of the rest of the fleet. I would like to know.:eek:
 
I believe 147kt is for the aerobatic weight, but only 130kt for utility weight.

RV7/8 quoted as 142mph=123kts. But the applicable weight is not mentioned. I naively assumed that for max gross.

Am I wrong?
 
I believe 147kt is for the aerobatic weight, but only 130kt for utility weight.

RV7/8 quoted as 142mph=123kts. But the applicable weight is not mentioned. I naively assumed that for max gross.

Am I wrong?

You are correct about the RV-14. The 147 knot maneuvering speed is at aerobatic gross weight per Van's.



I would assume that the stated maneuvering speed for all of Van's aircraft are at max aerobatic gross weight as well.
 
Nobody said this was going to be easy.

So, I figure the best way to determine the maneuvering speed of your aircraft at a given gross weight is to see what the flaps up stall speed is and multiply that time the square root of 6.0 (2.449). I'll be doing that next time I go fly.
 
Thanks

Ron,

Thanks for your time. I enjoyed listening to the archive of the Webinar.

:)
 
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Hi Ron, I had accidentally missed the live webinar, so I just now watched the archive. Two things you said about spins confuses me a bit. At time 47:15, you talked about the 4 procedures to get you out of trouble:

Throttle: Idle
Controls: Force to neutral
Wait for 100 Kts
Recover from dive

You emphasized "not" to go past rudder neutral, because if one was in an inverted spin, and also not knowing if you were spinning left or right. Kicking the rudder the wrong way could get you killed. (I've heard of being in an inverted flat spins:eek:---don't wanna be there)

Sounds good.

Now go to time 49:54--Intentional spin. There you "do" say, "stick slightly forward and "do" put in some opposite rudder. Now I guess I can probably reason this out for myself,----The first case---you don't quite know what you've done to get yourself into this position, so do those 4 critical steps (above)----this will get you out of anything.

In the intentional spin, you're doing it intentionally, so it's OK to put in that bit of opposite rudder? Is that the reasoning?

But I don't want to second guess, I want to hear it from the master's lips.

One more question if I may. You talked about the "competition" aileron roll, and being at minus one G when inverted. Since you're only there for a second, one is not hurting a non oil inverted system engine, are you?
 
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There is some info in this thread worth saving, but will be lost after 2 weeks. I think it should be moved to another Forum to keep it around for posterity. Would a Moderator please do that?

Maybe an "Aerobatics" Sub-Forum needs to be added under the "Main" Forum.

Thanks.

+1
I've been lobbying for an aerobatics forum heading for some time.
 
Purchase a copy of "Better Aerobatics" by Alan Cassidy. "Aerobatics" by Neil Williams. "Fly for Fun" Bill Thomas. "Spins in the Pitts Special" by Gene Beggs . "Roll around a Point" by Duane Cole or any number of good books addressing aerobatics are a good starter for the beginner aerobat. These books give step by step control inputs in addition to helpful diagrams and pictures.

Cheers, Hans
 
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Hi Ron, I had accidentally missed the live webinar, so I just now watched the archive. Two things you said about spins confuses me a bit. At time 47:15, you talked about the 4 procedures to get you out of trouble:

Throttle: Idle
Controls: Force to neutral
Wait for 100 Kts
Recover from dive

You emphasized "not" to go past rudder neutral, because if one was in an inverted spin, and also not knowing if you were spinning left or right. Kicking the rudder the wrong way could get you killed. (I've heard of being in an inverted flat spins:eek:---don't wanna be there)

Sounds good.

Now go to time 49:54--Intentional spin. There you "do" say, "stick slightly forward and "do" put in some opposite rudder. Now I guess I can probably reason this out for myself,----The first case---you don't quite know what you've done to get yourself into this position, so do those 4 critical steps (above)----this will get you out of anything.

In the intentional spin, you're doing it intentionally, so it's OK to put in that bit of opposite rudder? Is that the reasoning?

But I don't want to second guess, I want to hear it from the master's lips.

One more question if I may. You talked about the "competition" aileron roll, and being at minus one G when inverted. Since you're only there for a second, one is not hurting a non oil inverted system engine, are you?

Don,

You correctly answered your own first question. Bill Finagin's 4-step recovery is for an out of control situation when you may not know which direction you are spinning. In a CONTROLLED spin recovery, rudder opposite the direction of rotation is required to stop the spin on heading.

Second question: Momentary loss of oil pressure may be noticed during brief negative G maneuvering. A second or two of inverted flight is not going to damage your engine but you are likely to lose a lot of oil from the vent. A half Raven system will keep the oil off the belly. A full inverted oil system is needed for extended negative G operation.
 
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