Insurance and a new model - RV-14A

I've done a search but didn't find my answer here. What are other RV-14 builders finding regarding insurance and transition training. AIG is requesting 3 hours dual in an RV-14. I was counting on Alex D. (local to me) for transition training since he was building a 14, but he is no longer in that business. As I see it, it's travel to either home office or Mitch Locke. I'm pitching to the broker that the RV-10 would be adequate dual time because of its similarities to the 14 but don't have an answer back from AIG. (BTW, I have 450 hours in an RV-6A.)

Any body have other experience?

I don't mean to hijack Keith's thread, but I also have a similar question. Just recently I requested a quote from AOPA for builder's insurance in case anything happens to my RV as I slog my way through the build process. The quote I received was a bit jaw-dropping; almost as much as I spend on my Cessna 180 each year, and I've only just started the empennage. Seems nuts that the kit is insured as if it were completed even though I've only bought the emp and wing kits, and I'm not even done with the emp yet. Is there an alternative? Seems I will self insure if the price really is that high.
Thanks,

Two comments:
First an update - I spoke with the broker again today (AOPA Insurance Services) regarding transition training/dual requirements, after the quote came back requiring 3 hours of dual training. I explained there were only 20 of these planes flying in the world and to get transition training, I would need to travel half way across the country to either Mitch or the factory. The broker took it back to AIG (underwriter) and got the dual requirement eliminated. They do require 2 hours of solo before taking passengers, but given the Phase I fly-off requirement, that's not an issue.
Second comment regarding costs, I had similarly requested coverage for my kit, although I waited until a few months ago (avionics installation was my trigger) and the quote I got (AIG again) was directly proportional to covered value to my flying RV-6A, even though I was quoted only hull coverage. This didn't make sense, and I explored with another firm/broker. They did offer some additional information, but were reluctant (very) to quote mid-policy year - some kind of gentlemen's agreement in the insurance industry, I guess. What they did say was that at renewal, they could probably offer hull only without liability at a lower cost. The numbers they gave me broke down like this.
RV-6A (at $75,000) is about $1,100 per year of which 400-450 is liability and 650-700 is plane coverage. For hull only on the RV-14 (I asked for $100,000), the cost would be about 900-1000.

I would check with Jenny @ Gallager and get quote.

I changed hull amounts while building. That helps when it takes 3 to ?? Years to build.

KeithB said:

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RV-6A (at $75,000) is about $1,100 per year of which 400-450 is liability and 650-700 is plane coverage. For hull only on the RV-14 (I asked for $100,000), the cost would be about 900-1000.

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What you are paying for your -6A is a LOT more than I am paying for my -9 taildragger and I have a $10K hire hull value.

I would seriously look around!

N941WR said:

What you are paying for your -6A is a LOT more than I am paying for my -9 taildragger and I have a $10K hire hull value.

I would seriously look around!

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Maybe still a decent rate though...
He didn't mention total time and time in type. If significantly less than you, it could have a big effect on the premium.

asw20c said:

I don't mean to hijack Keith's thread, but I also have a similar question. Just recently I requested a quote from AOPA for builder's insurance in case anything happens to my RV as I slog my way through the build process. The quote I received was a bit jaw-dropping; almost as much as I spend on my Cessna 180 each year, and I've only just started the empennage. Seems nuts that the kit is insured as if it were completed even though I've only bought the emp and wing kits, and I'm not even done with the emp yet. Is there an alternative? Seems I will self insure if the price really is that high.
Thanks,

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Personally, I suggest only insuring the kit once it reaches a value where you couldn't afford to take the hit if the house collapsed on it. Complete tail kits, for instance, often trade in this space for 1/2 or 1/3 of the cost of a new kit from Van's. So there's no sense in insuring something you can replace for $1,000.

Beyond that, reframe the conversation about your builder's insurance. When you have an empennage and wings, tell them you're insuring an RV-X kit worth $15k or whatever. When you get the fuselage delivered, you call back and up the value to $25k, etc. Don't start the conversation talking about the completed value of the kit...

The commenters are correct. Time in type and ratings change the cost a LOT. I was doing great in my RV-10 with an instrument rating and well over 1000 hours, but then I added my non-instrument rated wife with 250+ hours. There are companies that won't even write the policy with her on it at that number of hours. For the RV-14, adding her on added about $300-350 to my annual insurance rate as well.

Regarding transition training....this is a long way off, but, I recently got my CFI and if I can get a LODA thru the local FSDO, I may offer transition training in the RV-14. I am not sure I am interested yet, because there is significant extra insurance cost and such involved, but since there are so few RV-14's flying, I feel like it may be of benefit if I can get it done with not too much trouble.
I probably won't even start the application process for a couple months, so that wouldn't help anyone right now.


Back to insurance though, I find that it's completely worthless to talk about insurance at all, if the people both asking and replying don't provide:

Hull Value
Pilot Total Time
Pilot Make/Model Time
Pilot Ratings

For the RV-10 you can easily find people paying $4000-4400 for insurance, and just as easily find people paying near $1500-1700. It all depends on your exact situation.

In my situation, with closer to over 1600 hours and an instrument rating, with a 125K hull value, I'm looking at something like $1300 maybe, based on last summer's quotes. Not sure what it'll be at renewal but probably lower, except by then I'll also have the wife with no instrument rating, AND a daughter who'll be 16 as a student pilot....so maybe $500-1000 more than me alone.

Kyle Boatright said:

...Beyond that, reframe the conversation about your builder's insurance. When you have an empennage and wings, tell them you're insuring an RV-X kit worth $15k or whatever. When you get the fuselage delivered, you call back and up the value to $25k, etc. Don't start the conversation talking about the completed value of the kit...

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Kyle, this is exactly how I envisioned my conversation with the AOPA insurance agent. The problem is that he asked what I expected the total value of the plane to be at completion. Now how in the world am I to know that? I haven't even decided what engine or avionics to use yet. Still, I quoted $140k and apparently that is what they based the premium on. I even made clear that I had only just started the build and that I only had the first two kits actually sitting in my shop. Maybe it will be worth another conversation using the words you suggest. "I have a kit worth only $x at this time..."
Clay

Your other choice is to call someone like Skysmith or one of the other brokers which is more familiar with experimentals. I've not been impressed with how AOPA's services work in our little corner of the aviation market.