Grove Gear option

I saw Grove gear legs mounted to a "One Design" aerobatic plane and I must say I was totally impressed with the gun drilled brake lines built into them.

I read through the archives, but cannot find any definitive comparison between the Grove airfoil shaped gear legs vis a vis Van's stock gear legs other than the obvious weight advantage.

Nevertheless, I am inclined to go with Grove when the time comes, a major reason being I can avoid exterior mounted brake lines and having to install fiberglass leg fairings. Still, intersection fairings will be needed. Does anyone have any photographs of an RV8 fitted with Grove (airfoil) legs and intersection fairings installed?

By the time I deduct the costs of all the many excluded parts from the standard fuselage and finishing kits associated with the main landing gear, how much of a price premium (ballpark) will the Grove (airfoil) option ultimately cost?

Finally, can a reasonably accurate apples to apples comparison be projected that demonstrates a possible speed advantage with an RV8 using the Grove airfoil design in lieu of Van's stock gear legs?

Well, you can do the math. Check with Van and see what exclusion of the stock parts will save you and compare with the cost of the Grove assy at $1200-1300, last I checked.

I'd definitely do it on a subsequent -8 project. Te drag savings is not that appealing to me, but the weight savings is substantial.

Grove Gear Options

I have the non-airfoil shape Grove gear on my -8. I have to concur with Brian that the benefit is the weight savings. I seriously doubt there is a speed benefit. I saved 17 lbs with the non-airfoil gear plus some $$. I used the F-1 Rocket gear leg fairings which fit perfectly over the larger Grove gear and was exceptionally easy to install. This probably added a couple extra pounds. Consequently, I think I probably saved around 15 pounds. If I recall, the airfoil shaped Grove gear saves around 11 pounds. I may be off on that number but in any case the non-airfoil with the fairings is still lighter and cheaper. I would do the same thing again and save the weight.

Current price for the airfoil gear is 1809.00 for the set.
I'll have to look back and see what my credit was for stuff removed - it was on the order of 6-700$ IIRC.

Thomas

The Vans credit two weeks ago was $592.50. I deleted the steel gear legs, the inboard and outboard attach brackets, and the leg fairing subkit. I guess that makes the additional cost for Grove airfoil legs $1216.50 net. Worth it to me, got 'em on order.

Dan Horton

DanH said:

The Vans credit two weeks ago was $592.50. I deleted the steel gear legs, the inboard and outboard attach brackets, and the leg fairing subkit. I guess that makes the additional cost for Grove airfoil legs $1216.50 net. Worth it to me, got 'em on order.

Dan Horton

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Good information Dan. Thanks.

Even though the standard Grove legs weigh less than the airfoil type by a healthy 6 lb. margin, I have to question how much of that weight difference is essentially negated by installing fiberglass fairings.....a detail not necessary with the airfoil type. I would think the extra installed parts would add a minimum of 2 lbs. or so and effectively narrow the weight advantage.

I sure hope someone posts some detail photos of intersection fairings installed on the Grove legs!

I will try to get acouple

Hi Fellas!!
I have the airfoil grove gear and intersection fairings from Fairings INC. and they fit perfect took almost no work at all to get them on I will snap some pics when I am at the hangar next.

P.S. Dakota Queen is flying Great!!!!!!!!!!!

Kirk, Look forward to your pictures! I am going with the Grove to save the weight and the blended airfoil as well.

Found a picture:



I believe that is Paul Schattauer's (sp?) plane (the same one from Van's home page); I took the pic at the Richmond KY fly in in 2005.

Thomas

Fairings Etc

Hi Kirk. Do you mean Fairings Etc instead of INC? I looked on Google and the closest thing I found was Etc. They do look nice. Thanks. Dave RV-8 Fuse

I just got a call from Grove that they are doing a production run now so mine should be here in 6-7 weeks! Can't wait to see how they look.
I know they're a little pricey, but I like the idea of no external brake lines and the weight savings.

Thomas

Thomas...thanks for the picture. I agree that they look great. You also answered my question about the brake lines. I'm really glad to hear they are internal.

OEM? Why Not?

Since the Grove gear option appears to be so popular, perhaps Van's can be encouraged to pursue some sort of OEM arrangement with Grove as he has successfully done with so many other vendors. If only he knew. E-mails might help. Hint. Hint.

At one time Grove sent a set of gear legs to Van's for testing. They sat there for a long time and Van's finally just sent them back. I have heard, but don't know for sure, that the guy who makes the current gear is related to Van somehow.

I have a one piece gear that Grove made for me that I will be putting on my 8. I think it will have advantages over the two piece gear. Unfortunately it doesn't come in an airfoil configuration at this time.

Having worked at Grove Aircraft for a year and cut many RV-8 gear blanks out of aluminum with a Makita skillsaw (ugh!) I can tell you they do make a very nice set of landing gear. It takes a lot of work to get it to the point that you guys receive them in. If I ever built an RV-8 they'd be on mine. One thing though, he makes them in batches so order early or be prepared for a long wait.

long drilled holes

Todd, I've got a set of the Grove gear legs, and I've just gotta know how he drills those long, straight holes in them. That's pretty amazing, if you ask me.

rv8ch said:

Todd, I've got a set of the Grove gear legs, and I've just gotta know how he drills those long, straight holes in them. That's pretty amazing, if you ask me.

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He uses a high powered cordless drill with a special long drill bit and a very steady hand.
Seriously though, the machine is called a gun drill. It can be described somewhat like a drill press laying on its side. The gear is clamped to a large flat aluminum table while a very long drill bit is slowly fed into the gear. The drill bit is obviously very long so it is supported by metal plates with a hole drilled in the center for the bit to pass through. The plates ride on rails and stack up as the bit is fed into the gear. Its kinda hard to explain to I attached a simplified sketch. It really a cool piece of machinery...and very heavy..dont ask how I know

I just finished this lovely task and unfortunately, I wasn't as lucky as Kirk. The fit on my Fairings-ETC pair wasn't so great. Of course, not a single piece of fiberglass on my plane fit right, so I guess this stuff just doesn't like me.

Both fairings fit pretty well at the front, but there was almost a 3/8" gap between the fillet at the back and the fuselage. And on the right fairing, there was interference with the front U-803 bolt head and the lower flange of the fairing didn't extend far enough to catch the front screw on the gear leg cover. So I had to extend the flange and mold in a blister to clear the bolt head.

In the pictures below, you can see how much of the fairing I had to cut away to make a smooth transition to meet the fuselage. And if you look closely at the underneath shot, you can see the blister that was needed to clear the bolt. All in all, it was still a lot easier than doing them from scratch.

These fairings seem to be somewhat larger than most of the homemade ones I've seen. I haven't flown with them yet. I'm really curious to see if they cure my tail shake.

What I'd like to know is the paint code for the paint .... will be polishing my plane as well and would like to paint the fairings like you did (excellent job )

Mike

skidmk said:

What I'd like to know is the paint code for the paint

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It's just rattle can stuff. Dupli-Color "Chrome" which I got from AutoZone. I'm still experimenting with it. I didn't have very high hopes for it but was pleasantly surprised at how metallic it looked. I still don't know how durable it will be, though. It may not stand up to bug washing, etc. It will definitely need a clear coat application (which I didn't think to do in time) but I'm going to fly with it for a while and then re-paint them. If it passes the test, I'll also do the center emp fairing.

Oh, I found a couple more pictures that better show the bolt head and short flange issue.

Looking ahead

TShort said:

I just got a call from Grove that they are doing a production run now so mine should be here in 6-7 weeks! Can't wait to see how they look.Thomas

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I too contacted Grove and was told the production batch is scheduled to start by the end of this week and deliveries follow approximately 8 weeks later. I was informed they only start a batch when a minimum of 8 sets are sold. The next production run is anticipated for the April/May 2007 time frame and I requested to be put on that list. Given Van's won't even ship my wing kit for at least another 3 weeks, I consider my order with Grove to be "long term advance planning."

Jack Fromm said:

It's just rattle can stuff. Dupli-Color "Chrome" which I got from AutoZone. I'm still experimenting with it. I didn't have very high hopes for it but was pleasantly surprised at how metallic it looked. I still don't know how durable it will be, though. It may not stand up to bug washing, etc. It will definitely need a clear coat application (which I didn't think to do in time) but I'm going to fly with it for a while and then re-paint them. If it passes the test, I'll also do the center emp fairing.

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Hey Jack, you still around here somewhere? How did you get on with that Chrome paint?

AntiGravity said:

Hey Jack, you still around here somewhere? How did you get on with that Chrome paint?

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Hi, Jeff. Yeah, I'm still around. Unfortunately, the paint didn't fare too well. I did paint my emp fairing with it last spring and for that one I read the fine print on the can of clear coat and it specifically said not to use it over the chrome paint. I tried it on a test piece anyway and, sure enough, it ruined things. So I painted the fairing anyway with just the chrome paint. The good news is that bugs don't seem to hit the emp fairing so it doesn't need to be cleaned. The bad news is that the paint still doesn't seem to be holding up well. It's developing some strange starburst-looking patterns in it. The gear leg fairings are faring worse. The paint didn't hold up to bug cleaning. I finally tried using Turtle wax on them. It cleaned them up nicely and put a nice gloss on them, but basicallly changed them into a metallic gray color so they don't really match well anymore. I don't have any pictures handy but suffice it to say, I wouldn't recommend this particular approach. Maybe next spring I'll strip all of them and try something else.

The gear legs themselves are still looking great, though. I clean the bugs with NuImage after each flight and re-polish as needed---once a month or so. Only takes about 15 minutes. And FWIW, I never did prime the tops and bottoms of the legs where they disappear under the fairings. It's still just the gold anodized and no visible corrosion after 3? years.

Sorry to hear about the corrosion on your gear legs. I hope Robbie confirms that it's just superficial.

Grove gear legs

I had a set of his gun drilled gear legs on my One Design and really liked them for their clean look. I actually got a chance to visit his shop and watch them being made. He starts out with the proper thickness of material, 7/8" I believe and has it sent out to be annealed to the T-0 condition. He uses a template of the gear leg and cuts it out of the plate with a skill saw and carbide blade. The gun drilling takes place on a machine made by Browning in the 1940's to drill M2 machingun barrels. Once the main drilling and cross drilling is complete he does the final machine work and shaping to all edges. Then the leg/s are bent to the proper shape in a press. When done the legs are sent back to the heat treater to be brought back to the T-6 condition. Very cool operation!

Also I don't know how the Grove legs mount to the RV8. The 1D used a one piece gear that had to have a flex or butterfly plate to keep the gear from moving side to side but allow for up and down flexing between the mounts.

Thanks for the update Jack...

...I won't be trying that then!!