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Experimental vs. Certified Engines

RV8er86

I'm New Here
I'm interested in purchasing my very first aircraft. However when I discovered that the engine is an experimental Lycoming IO-360 engine, it naturally raised a few questions in my mind about the safety/reliability and future worth of an experimental engine?

To those of you who have installed and flown with experimental engines of any type, what have been your pros and cons doing so? Have you ever felt less safe flying yourself and passengers around with an experimental engine that does not require to be in compliance with all safety AD's that certified engines must be in compliance with? Or is the certified vs. experimental engine dilemma really just come down to personal preference?

The engine on the aircraft I'm interesting in buying was overhauled back in 2000 by the Canadian company Aerosport Power and only has approx. 600 hrs since that last major overhaul. Do any of you have any feedback on the quality of work that they do? According to their website, they seem like a very well known and respectable experimental engine company in Canada. However, I treat everything on the company's website with a grain of salt that needs verification from any customers to give me confidence.

Last question, if the airplane is being sold for approx. $80,000 would I be able to re-sell the aircraft years later for at least the same value, with the same experimental Lycoming engine? Or would I be forced to sell it for a far less value, primarily due to the experimental engine?

Thanks in advance for any helpful inputs!
 
Just about every RV has an experimental engine.

In the case of Lycoming, the main difference is that the certified version leaves the factory with the certification and a significant premium for the trouble.

The experimental engines don't get the certificate are significantly less expensive.

Beyond that, not any difference that I know of other than the builder may have chosen a different ignition system.

More importantly is how well the engine has been maintained and is running, I wouldn't sweat the fact that it's experimental.

My $0.02 ... lots of great advice here!
 
I?d like to correct a small mis-statement in the original post. Once an engine - any engine - is installed in an experimental airplane, it becomes an experimental engine. There is no legal obligation to keep up to date with ADs, for example. The owner is free to modify it as he sees fit. If the original engine was type-certified; and you subsequently want to restore it to certified status (maybe because you want to install it on a Cessna); you need to get an A&P-IA to attest that it is now in compliance with its original type certification paperwork, plus susequent ADs. In practice, very few EAB engines are restored to certification. Now, if you were referring to new engines bought from Lycoming as experimental, or uncertified: these may have some parts (ignition, fuel system) which use non TSOd parts, but otherwise are stock, off the assembly line engines. However, they lack certification paperwork, so they can never be ?restored? to certified status. The practical aspect is that the may not be used, ever, on a Cessna or Piper.
 
After doing my research and exploring options, I purchased the engine for my RV-7A from Aero Sport Power. I found they have a great reputation, they're easy to deal with and do great work. I'd be comfortable purchasing a plane with an engine rebuilt by them.
 
Aerosport Power is a solid name in engines for our aircraft. The fact that the engine has 600 hours means it is beyond infant mortality and is likely to be a good unit for the next 1500+ (more or less) hours.

Having an Aerosport engine is certainly not a minus on the value of the airplane and won't be in the future.

Now, whether the airplane you buy today for $80K will be worth $80K when you go to sell it is all related to timing. Sell it in a good economy and you'll probably get your money (maybe more) back. Sell it in a down economy and you're likely to take a bath. Just like all toys (boats, bikes, airplanes, vacation homes).
 
I used Barrett myself, but Aerosport Power is an excellent engine builder. Other good information by above posters. After hearing a number of presentations and the debates that followed during the question-and-answer period, it's generally accepted that the main difference between an certified engine and experimental engine is the certification paper trail. It's not necessarily a better engine... it's just certified.
 
One question to the seller may be -

Does experimental "Lycoming" mean an engine actualy built by Lycoming, or one built to Lycoming's design? This build could be anything from a well-known egine shop to a A&P (experienced or not) to a first time homebulder doing his own engine. Quality levels can vary..:)
 
From the original question, it sounds like you are new to the world of experimental aircraft. If that the case, welcome to our world.

If you are new to experimental aircraft in general, Vans aircraft are best of breed (but there are other excellent brands also). That being said, every Vans aircraft is unique. Build quality varies greatly from one plane to the next, so you should have a mechanic that is very experienced with Vans planes do a pre-buy of any plane you are considering.

Regarding your questions about "experimental" engines, don't confused a non-certified version of a Lycoming engine with "alternate" engines. An "experimental" (i.e. non-certified) Lycoming type engine is (for the most part) exactly like a certified engine - it just does not have paperwork and data plate of a certified engine.

I say "for the most part" because there may be a few items (like electronic ignitions) that are not approved for use on certified engine. A non-certified Lycoming type engine built by a reputable shop (like Aerosport) is as good or better than a "real" (i.e. certified) Lycoming engine.

Alternate engines are an entirely different animal. Most alternate engines are auto engines that have been modified for use in airplanes. There is an entire sub-forum on this site dedicated to alternative engines. If you go this route, you really are going experimental. There are some good alternate engines but a non-certified Lycoming type engine is the more conservative option.
 
As soon as a "certified" engine is bolted to an experimental aircraft, the engine becomes "experimental".

ECi (Now owned by Continental) and Superior made PMA parts for the Lycoming engines. At some point they realized they made every part and started selling "kit engines". Some homebuilders bought the kits and assembled them themselves, others contracted with overhaul shops (Barrett, Penn Yan, etc.) to assemble those kits. The engines are often referred to as "Lyclones" and have proven to be reliable.

Good luck sorting all this out!
 
Engine

From post #3 any engine installed on an Exp is a Exp engine
If that is true why do most exp airplanes with certified engine and prop only have to fly off 25 hrs and exp engine and props 40 or more hours?An engine and prop can remain certified if work is done by A&P and signed off by IA even if it is on an Exp airplane.
Bob
 
49clipper

From post #3 any engine installed on an Exp is a Exp engine
If that is true why do most exp airplanes with certified engine and prop only have to fly off 25 hrs and exp engine and props 40 or more hours?An engine and prop can remain certified if work is done by A&P and signed off by IA even if it is on an Exp airplane.
Bob

Entirely correct, 6 gun. Its still certified no matter what it is bolted to, unless you make changes or do not keep up with all the AD's/SB's for that model and are an AP/IA. Its a paperwork thing. The FAA "ASSUMES" that if you built it (engine) yourself or modified something, or was not direct from the factory, it is EXP, and therefore should have more flight test time. IMHO
Jim AP/IA
 
compression ratio

If I was buying an experimental engine, I'd want to know what the compression ratio was and consider if it fit my mission. I don't know what percentage of experimental engines have higher compression than stock, but if the unit in question does, I suggest talking with Aerosport about your mission and make sure it is a good fit for you.
 
From post #3 any engine installed on an Exp is a Exp engine
If that is true why do most exp airplanes with certified engine and prop only have to fly off 25 hrs and exp engine and props 40 or more hours?An engine and prop can remain certified if work is done by A&P and signed off by IA even if it is on an Exp airplane.
Bob

I'm not sure that is correct.

I do know of one new RV that used and engine and prop from a damaged RV and was given a 25 hour test period because it was previously in a certified airplane. BTW, the engine was built up from miscellaneous parts and didn't have a data plate.

Hopefully Vick or Vern will chime in.
 
Getting the corn popper warmed up.........

Thanks Sam. You do enjoy a good bowl of pop corn :)

To the OP, you are learning as you get involved and read this for and others.

There are two terms to pay attention to - “certified” vs “certificated”.


My RV-8 does not have a certified engine but it does have a certificated engine.

Example: the Lycoming O-360-A4A is covered by the E-286 Type Certificate Data Sheet, Revision 21.
 
The engine on the aircraft I'm interesting in buying was overhauled back in 2000 by the Canadian company Aerosport Power and only has approx. 600 hrs since that last major overhaul.

600 hours is not much flying in 18 years. I'd be worried that this aircraft (and thus engine) might have been inactive for an extended period of time thus increasing the chance of corrosion of the camshaft and other parts. AeroSport Power are a reputable company but more to the point....who has been maintaining this engine for the last 18 years? ie. Were the mags overhauled at 500 hours. Were the hoses replaced at 7 years, etc etc etc. These are the more important questions.
 
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