VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics


Go Back   VAF Forums > Model Specific > RV-12
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-07-2018, 05:36 PM
DaleB's Avatar
DaleB DaleB is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Omaha, NE (KMLE)
Posts: 1,904
Angry Facet fuel pump failure mode??

We’re just finishing up our CI, or trying to. 2011 RV-12 with 400 hours. We sealed up a slow leak in the fuel tank, so before trying to run the engine I put 5 gallons of fresh alcohol free mogas in the tank. Removed the drain from the gascolator and started running the pump to flush out the lines. It pumped about 2 gallons and suddenly stopped dead. Fuse is OK and there is power to the pump. The fans run with the master on. Only a minor drip of gas with the valve open and gascolator drain removed. I removed the baggage floor cover and gave it a couple of sharp taps with a screwdriver handle, no effect. The pump is not making any noise at all that I can hear...

Before I tear into this, what’s the most likely problem? Would a chunk of debris like Proseal that we missed with the vacuum do this? OF COURSE it has to happen on Friday afternoon...
__________________
Dale
Omaha, NE
RV-12 # 222 N980KM "Screamin' Canary" (bought flying)
Fisher Celebrity (under construction)
Previous RV-7 project (sold)
-=VAF=- 2017 dues paid

Last edited by DaleB : 09-07-2018 at 05:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-08-2018, 08:19 AM
TS Flightlines TS Flightlines is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ridgeland, SC
Posts: 2,154
Default

Dale---Check to make sure the pump is electrically grounded---you say you have power to the pump--verified?
If in fact the electrical is correct, pull the pump. Look for some debris, but you'll probably end up changing the pump. You might 'influence' the pump operation with a smack of a hammer, but then you probably will not want to fly with a boost pump thats being adolescent.

Tom
__________________
Tom Swearengen, TS Flightlines LLC
Teflon Hose Assemblies for Experimentals
Proud Vendor for RV1, Donator to VAF
RV7 Tail Kit Completed, Fuse started-Pay as I go Plan
Ridgeland, SC
www.tsflightlines.com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-08-2018, 08:22 AM
John-G John-G is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 528
Default

Dale -

This is not uncommon and has happened to a handful of other RV-12 owners. Before running out and replacing the pump, first try to rap on the top of the pump with a screwdriver handle or a small ball-peen hammer.

It has been reported after a few gentle but deliberate taps the fuel pump begins working again. Most likely yours will as well ... as it is very likely there is some debris hanging it up.

Some have strategically drilled a hole over the pump so a metal rod can be used to tap the pump without removing the access panel. I agree with Tom ... and would replace the pump or look deeper into why if the problem has become more than a one time event.

Hope this solves your issue.
Happy flying,
__________________
John
www.dogaviation.com
RV-12 Wings, Empennage, Fuselage, Finishing, Avionics and Powerplant kits all completed
Now Flying!!

Dues paid until September 2019

Last edited by John-G : 09-08-2018 at 08:28 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-08-2018, 08:44 AM
Piper J3's Avatar
Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Hinckley, Ohio
Posts: 1,104
Default

I suggest using electrical contact cleaner to clean spade lugs. You might even crimp the female connector a little bit more closed. My Facet pump quit about 100 hours ago - cleaning electrical contact and a smart rap with screw driver handle fixed it.
__________________
-
Jim Stricker
Hinckley, Ohio
EAA #499867
PPL/ASEL 1970 - Sport Pilot since 2007
80 hrs Flying Aeronca Chief 11AC
1130 hrs Flying 46 Piper J-3 Cub
RV-12 E-LSA #120058 AWC Jul 2012 - Bought Flying Oct 2015 with 48TT - Hobbs now 406

LSRM-A Certificate 2016
Special Thanks to EJ Trucks
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-08-2018, 10:21 AM
Dave12 Dave12 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Elkton, Md.
Posts: 1,364
Default

Governor Valcik’s pump took a short vacay one time and a smack with a hammer did the trick. He got a month or so out of it. Can’t begin to remember all of the starters that I have overhauled with a hammer.
__________________
Wag Aero Sport Trainer
N588DF RV12 #336 Sold
N73DF RV12 #244 Flying
Rans S21 Outbound (Coming soon)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-08-2018, 08:18 PM
DaleB's Avatar
DaleB DaleB is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Omaha, NE (KMLE)
Posts: 1,904
Default

Sigh. Our condition inspection seems to be, a long last, finished save for a couple of deferred squawks. We made two test flights this afternoon.

Tapping on the fuel pump had no effect. I finally siphoned out the gas, stuck the nose wheel up on a step stool, and pulled the fuel pump. Oh what joy. Much smiling and happy thoughts in the hangar.

Once out I grabbed the jumper wires and hooked it directly to the battery. I could tell there was something going on -- a very faint sound, but nothign moving. A couple of sharp raps with the pump vertical (rather than horizontal, as mounted in the plane) and it started working. Hooked up some field expedient plastic tubing and spent half an an hour or so running gasoline between two gas cans with no issues at all. Got it mounted back in the plane (more joy and happiness) and all is well.

Maybe if I's swung the hammer fore-and-aft instead of from the top it would have saved me two hours of work. Maybe not, I don't know. We'll keep an eye on that pump, and I think we'll just plan to replace it at the next annual even if it's still working.

What made it stick? Lord only knows. It did sit empty and dry for two months. I would feel better about that answer if it had never even started, but it pumped about two gallons before stopping. I did notice, though, that afterward it seemed to be pumping a stronger stream than before.
__________________
Dale
Omaha, NE
RV-12 # 222 N980KM "Screamin' Canary" (bought flying)
Fisher Celebrity (under construction)
Previous RV-7 project (sold)
-=VAF=- 2017 dues paid
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-09-2018, 08:21 AM
John-G John-G is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 528
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleB View Post
What made it stick?
Dale-

Glad to hear you got the pump working after a couple of raps to the body.

Best guess is a small amount of crud jammed oscillating piston in the pump. Could have been a tiny piece of Proseal from the tank or a small piece of crud in the fuel ... best guess is the latter of the two. I occasionally see tiny hard chunks of crud stuck in the screen at the bottom of my Mr Funnel after refueling with Mogas from cans.

During my build I wanted to add a fuel filter between the tank and the fuel pump as Facet recommends .... and even bought a good one with a cleanable/replaceable stainless filter element. I just could not figure out a good place to install it between the pump and fuel tank that would also be easy to service.

Although quite expensive, had Flyboy Accessories offered this filter when I was building, I would have been very tempted to install it because it can be easily serviced from the belly of the airplane.
http://www.flyboyaccessories.com/product-p/72rr02.htm

Happy flying,
__________________
John
www.dogaviation.com
RV-12 Wings, Empennage, Fuselage, Finishing, Avionics and Powerplant kits all completed
Now Flying!!

Dues paid until September 2019
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-09-2018, 08:56 AM
TS Flightlines TS Flightlines is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ridgeland, SC
Posts: 2,154
Default

Back in the automotive days, we used to have to hit them every now and then. But we were on the ground and were stopped, not in the air------

Tom
__________________
Tom Swearengen, TS Flightlines LLC
Teflon Hose Assemblies for Experimentals
Proud Vendor for RV1, Donator to VAF
RV7 Tail Kit Completed, Fuse started-Pay as I go Plan
Ridgeland, SC
www.tsflightlines.com
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-09-2018, 03:53 PM
Driftdown Driftdown is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Clearwater, Florida
Posts: 337
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John-G View Post
. . . Best guess is a small amount of crud jammed oscillating piston in the pump. Could have been a tiny piece of Proseal from the tank or a small piece of crud in the fuel ... best guess is the latter of the two.
That type of debris should have been filtered at the gascolator. The only other origin where it could come from would be the fuel hose, feeding the pump itself. That could come from rubber shavings, at the hose ends, where the connection meets the barbed or banjo fittings.
That's why it is extremely important to make very 'clean' cuts on the hose ends and carefully fitting the hose ends over the metal fittings. Those metal fittings, especially barbed fittings (on some engines), tend to tear up the interior ends of hoses, thus, producing debris. The same could apply . . for debris in the carb float bowls.

This is a great tool for making clean and perfect cuts on hoses. The blade on this tool is razor sharp:

http://c.shld.net/rpx/i/s/i/spin/ima...ei=600&wid=600

https://www.amazon.com/Craftsman-9-3...Inch+Handi+Cut

Last edited by Driftdown : 09-09-2018 at 03:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-09-2018, 04:00 PM
scottmillhouse's Avatar
scottmillhouse scottmillhouse is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Madison, AL
Posts: 231
Default

[quote=That type of debris should have been filtered at the gascolator. /QUOTE] Not on a 12 which has the pump near the gas tank and before the gasolator. It would have to pass through the tank finger screen but that is quite coarse.
__________________
Scott- 2018 dues paid
Got medical back, now building a 7A; N579RV reserved, new engine installed, doing FWF, instruments & finish painting.
RV-12 #120515, N319RV 1st flight 12/2015 now over 270 hours.
RV-9A, 536 hours sold, RV-7 sold, Kitfox sold
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:41 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.