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  #11  
Old 09-04-2018, 12:59 PM
sjhurlbut sjhurlbut is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
They still need to have a full thread beyond the nut.
Yes what I'm saying is the only way to get that is leave off the washer. A longer 8 screw will not fit. It will interfere with the other bolt coming from below (not shown drilled in picture). Its an area of poor design in my opinion. Just a lot of really tight tolerances for where the bolts end up. You miss drill one of these bolts and you're hooped.

Also once you drill those other holes (where you see the clecoe poking through) you'll need to remove the #8 screws to even get the nuts started. Not too bad.
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RV7A #70015 - C-FZQX - built - sold
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  #12  
Old 09-04-2018, 02:44 PM
Scott Hersha Scott Hersha is offline
 
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
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I won’t comment further about bolt length/thread exposure...... I’m sure you already knew that, or certainly do by now. However, to your original question, something to the effect “is there anything else on this build that is worse” - we’ll, no, not really. And the bad news is, every annual, and sooner when first start flying, you have to figure how to manipulate a socket wrench in that h_ll hole, with much more in the way than what you have now........ UNLESS,,, you have four little pieces of chromoly steel designed and made by ‘WingRider’ here at HAO. These little jewels capture the head of the bolt (like a U-shaped washer)- inserted from top down and prevent it from turning in the chanel of the gear weldment. The nut goes on the bottom, which is easy-peasy to torque. ‘Won't it protrude to far and interfear with the upper intersection fairing’? you say. Well, no actually, if you’re using the stock gear legs from Vans, the upper intersection fairing covers it. If you have thicker Grove legs, the longer bolts needed for that may require a slightly different upper fairing treatment. But on stock equipment, the bolts go through the clamping washer from above and are prevented from turning while tightening/torqueing the nuts on the bottom, and are completely hidden under the upper intersection fairing. It’s a one man operation, and after easy installation, you never have to get in to that God forsaken location with anything but an inspection mirror and light during your condition inspection. Life is good!
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  #13  
Old 09-04-2018, 06:22 PM
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goatflieg goatflieg is online now
 
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I knew as soon as I posted that photo that I'd hear about those short screws. Those are the ones left out of the QB fuse by the factory, and I wondered why they all seemed different lengths, even though they're not; haven't checked if there's a difference in layers. Wasn't all that obvious until I got the borescope cam involved. I will have to do something about that. Some screws have already been removed to allow loosening of the aft tower bulkhead bolts, which in turn gives me enough clearance to get the nut and washer onto the bolt... theoretically. Some other details: I am reaching through the stock holes in the towers, and I am using Grove airfoil gear, along with their hardware. And I wondered about the bolts coming up from the bottom; figured it was a clearance issue with the stock leg covers, but with the thicker Grove gear that's kind of a moot point. The plans show them inserted in that direction, so I followed the plans. I like the idea of the chromoly steel lock washers. But first I will try to get the nuts engaged with someone rotating the bolt from above. I can reach the darn things, even get the nut and washer over them... but can't manage to engage the threads, working upwards and blind. I'll keep y'all posted. Once I get the nuts on, I'm not worried about getting them torqued. Checking with Van's and Grove, the torquing can be done from either end, so all I really have to do is get a box end wrench around the 12-point Grove nuts and torque from the bolt side. Yes, I brought up the question: isn't the proper method torque from the nut end, and shouldn't the turning end have the washer? They said well, yes... in a perfect world. But they would accept the compromise in order to achieve the right torque. Therein lies my hope. My build will not be perfect. But it will be good enough... darn it. Thanks for your helpful comments.
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Clarkston, MI
RV-8 #83507 - empennage complete (except fiberglass)
QB wings & fuselage work continues
N657AR reserved
Builder websites:
http://goatflieg.blogspot.com/
http://www.mykitlog.com/goatflieg/
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  #14  
Old 09-04-2018, 07:05 PM
scsmith scsmith is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hersha View Post
I won’t comment further about bolt length/thread exposure...... I’m sure you already knew that, or certainly do by now. However, to your original question, something to the effect “is there anything else on this build that is worse” - we’ll, no, not really. And the bad news is, every annual, and sooner when first start flying, you have to figure how to manipulate a socket wrench in that h_ll hole, with much more in the way than what you have now........ UNLESS,,, you have four little pieces of chromoly steel designed and made by ‘WingRider’ here at HAO. These little jewels capture the head of the bolt (like a U-shaped washer)- inserted from top down and prevent it from turning in the chanel of the gear weldment. The nut goes on the bottom, which is easy-peasy to torque. ‘Won't it protrude to far and interfear with the upper intersection fairing’? you say. Well, no actually, if you’re using the stock gear legs from Vans, the upper intersection fairing covers it. If you have thicker Grove legs, the longer bolts needed for that may require a slightly different upper fairing treatment. But on stock equipment, the bolts go through the clamping washer from above and are prevented from turning while tightening/torqueing the nuts on the bottom, and are completely hidden under the upper intersection fairing. It’s a one man operation, and after easy installation, you never have to get in to that God forsaken location with anything but an inspection mirror and light during your condition inspection. Life is good!
If I ever build another one, I will do this for sure. The only reason I didn't do it on mine is that that it was a QB and all those bolts were in, and they prevent the head of the bolt from dropping into place. Next time, I won't be shy about having to undo a few of those to allow the bolt head to drop into place. The head keeper is a good idea. And of course, all this is tons easier with the tower access mod.

To the OP, at build stage you are at, you might consider going ahead and doing the tower access mod. It will pay dividends down the road.
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  #15  
Old 09-04-2018, 07:11 PM
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goatflieg goatflieg is online now
 
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Some other details: This first photo shows that I rearranged the way the fuselage was supported; now there are jackstands up front and a workstand across the aft cockpit bay. With the larger workstand removed from the forward cockpit bay I can get close enough to the towers to reach inside without having to squeeze onto a workstand on my back; still hellish, but slightly easier. Also notice the borescope cam coiled up to the right of the creeper; on the left is a bass drum mic stand modified to hold my cell phone, which is my borescope monitor. I used this method when trying to get the nuts on with long extensions. Worked for the front nuts; not the back ones.
These are a couple tool mods I tried to get the nuts into a cramped space, cluttered with obstacles. Neither worked for those aft nuts.

Another nitpicky detail you may notice is that the washers are stuck to the nuts. I agonized long and hard about this. They had to be stuck together to keep from dropping the washers into the gear towers when trying to get the nuts on... but how to do it? Usually I use a dab of heavy grease, but didn't want to lubricate any part of this assembly. Epoxy would add thickness and get in the way. Finally chose a tiny dab of super glue, spread very thin and squashed down as much as physically possible. Hoping that won't compromise the torquing process in any way. LOTS of time spent, just tryg to get four nuts onto four bolts... and two of the bolts were easy.
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Martin J Filiatrault
Clarkston, MI
RV-8 #83507 - empennage complete (except fiberglass)
QB wings & fuselage work continues
N657AR reserved
Builder websites:
http://goatflieg.blogspot.com/
http://www.mykitlog.com/goatflieg/
YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/goatflieg
Dues paid for 2018... extra payment included for psychological therapeutic services rendered.

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  #16  
Old 09-05-2018, 11:58 AM
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Saville Saville is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hersha View Post
I won’t comment further about bolt length/thread exposure...... I’m sure you already knew that, or certainly do by now. However, to your original question, something to the effect “is there anything else on this build that is worse” - we’ll, no, not really. And the bad news is, every annual, and sooner when first start flying, you have to figure how to manipulate a socket wrench in that h_ll hole, with much more in the way than what you have now........ UNLESS,,, you have four little pieces of chromoly steel designed and made by ‘WingRider’ here at HAO. These little jewels capture the head of the bolt (like a U-shaped washer)- inserted from top down and prevent it from turning in the chanel of the gear weldment. The nut goes on the bottom, which is easy-peasy to torque. ‘Won't it protrude to far and interfear with the upper intersection fairing’? you say. Well, no actually, if you’re using the stock gear legs from Vans, the upper intersection fairing covers it. If you have thicker Grove legs, the longer bolts needed for that may require a slightly different upper fairing treatment. But on stock equipment, the bolts go through the clamping washer from above and are prevented from turning while tightening/torqueing the nuts on the bottom, and are completely hidden under the upper intersection fairing. It’s a one man operation, and after easy installation, you never have to get in to that God forsaken location with anything but an inspection mirror and light during your condition inspection. Life is good!
Can someone order these pieces? Are they available for sale?
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  #17  
Old 09-05-2018, 04:30 PM
Scott Hersha Scott Hersha is offline
 
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My friend Bruce makes them. I’ll see him this evening, I think, and ask him to contact you, or I’ll list his contact info here if he wants. I installed the bolts that way originally with my current airplane, using his ‘washer/clips’ and it was very easy to do. On my first RV8, I initially installed the bolts according to plans, but then turned them around when Bruce designed the clips. It was difficult getting the nuts off inside the gear tower with all the wiring and fuel vent lines in the way, but once they were off l just had to tap the bolt out from the top and turn it around with Bruce’s clips on. I did one bolt at a time while it was standing on its gear and nothing moved, so it was easy.
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  #18  
Old 09-05-2018, 04:53 PM
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goatflieg goatflieg is online now
 
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Epilogue: with the help of my wife Amy and my daughter Naomi, all landing gear bolts are torqued to spec. Amy helped me get the nuts on both aft outboard bracket bolts, and torqued down the left side outboard bracket bolts. Naomi helped me with torquing down all the remaining landing gear bolts, tightening the bolts loosened for clearance, and reinstalling the screws and nuts removed for clearance. So the gear is ON. Re-torquing won't pose as much of a challenge, as I have a modified 12pt box end wrench for the Grove nuts. For now, this nightmare is over, and the conclusion is satisfactory. Later on when the fuselage is upright and I've fixed the short screws, I'll mark the outboard bolts and screws with torque seal. But at least I have documentation that the bolt work is done.
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Martin J Filiatrault
Clarkston, MI
RV-8 #83507 - empennage complete (except fiberglass)
QB wings & fuselage work continues
N657AR reserved
Builder websites:
http://goatflieg.blogspot.com/
http://www.mykitlog.com/goatflieg/
YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/goatflieg
Dues paid for 2018... extra payment included for psychological therapeutic services rendered.

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Last edited by goatflieg : 09-05-2018 at 04:55 PM.
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  #19  
Old 09-05-2018, 05:53 PM
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Bob Kuykendall Bob Kuykendall is offline
 
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Good on you for using the high-strength nuts! Are those what come in the kit these days, or did you swap them out yourself?
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  #20  
Old 09-05-2018, 08:29 PM
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goatflieg goatflieg is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Kuykendall View Post
Good on you for using the high-strength nuts! Are those what come in the kit these days, or did you swap them out yourself?
Those are supplied by Grove. They are pinched very slightly on the upper flange in a manner similar to nut plates, to help hold the torqued bolts in place. Since the Airfoil aluminum gear legs are thicker than the stock steel ones, Grove supplies all the hardware to go with them; legs, brackets, bolts, washers and nuts. The only stock components used are Van's upper wear plates. I had the Grove brackets powdercoated to look like the Van's units, with the bolt holes and bottom/inside surfaces left bare.
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Martin J Filiatrault
Clarkston, MI
RV-8 #83507 - empennage complete (except fiberglass)
QB wings & fuselage work continues
N657AR reserved
Builder websites:
http://goatflieg.blogspot.com/
http://www.mykitlog.com/goatflieg/
YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/goatflieg
Dues paid for 2018... extra payment included for psychological therapeutic services rendered.

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