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  #11  
Old 08-29-2018, 09:45 PM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 3,287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brantel View Post
What's the chances that it would need a new crank or case or other high dollar component?
Most cores come with a guarantee that the crank and case will be rebuildable. In other words, you could send the crank off to Aircraft Specialty Services and get a yellow tag for it. Otherwise, the seller finds you a good crank or case to replace your "bad" one.

The issue is that rebuildable means theoretically you could get a crank that is like new and doesn't need any work other than wiping it off with a clean rag. Alternately, you could get one where you can turn the crank to a serviceable limit one more time before it is a $10k boat anchor. Either way, it is legitimately a rebuildable crank. Whether it is a like new crank or a last run crank will matter one day when you sell the airplane or need to rebuild the engine again.
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Last edited by Kyle Boatright : 08-30-2018 at 05:35 AM.
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  #12  
Old 08-30-2018, 12:52 AM
woxofswa woxofswa is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Mesa Arizona
Posts: 497
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When I was at this stage, it came down to the new from Van’s or a rebuild from Barrett. I chose the latter and saved about 3k and got twice the warranty and other custom touches.
When I had my prop governor incident that required an engine tear down, I already had a personal relationship with the folks who built it for me to take care of the issue and get me first class service and a quick turnaround. That personalized service was priceless at the time and will always be appreciated. You get that from a shop not a factory.
In my opinion, a Barrett, Aerosport, or LyCon rebuild engine are not going to diminish any resell value from anyone that you’d actually want to sell your airplane to.

As a side note: New is great, but perusing Trade a plane for decades, it is interesting how many (relative) airplanes had a major engine overhaul or replacement very early in their lifetimes. I knew a guy who was a factory test pilot who had three successive failures on test flights in a row. A wise old wrench once told me that he feels much safer behind a crankshaft that has proven to be metallurgically sound than one that hasn’t.
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Last edited by woxofswa : 08-30-2018 at 01:08 AM.
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  #13  
Old 08-30-2018, 04:53 AM
steve murray's Avatar
steve murray steve murray is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Flat Rock, North Carolina
Posts: 230
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I recently bit the bullet and placed a deposit with Titan. I wanted electronic ignition fuel injection system. They would not build to that version but agreed to build the engine, run it for 3 hours with slave magnetos and injection system and then send me the engine. James Ball at Titan has been very responsive with answers and the pricing was very competitive and the engine will be built in Mobile Alabama (Roll Tide Roll!)

I tried to contact Barrett several times via their website and never got a response, that is a no-go for me.

I visited Aerosport in Kamloops, great shop, great team and I hear nothing but good reports. They are extremely knowledgeable & flexible but distance and pricing was too far away. If cost was not an issue, I would have gone with them.
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  #14  
Old 08-30-2018, 05:33 AM
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Brantel Brantel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Newport, TN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketman1988 View Post
I understand the want to save money, however...

The RV-10 IS NOT an inexpensive build. This should be very apparent BEFORE starting the build.

The LAST place that I would try and save money would be the engine.

Your three other passengers, which could very well be your family, would probably agree.

Just my opinion...it's kind of like buying a mattress.

You spend nearly 1/3 of your life on that mattress; Do you really want to buy a cheap one?

Barrett is certainly not the cheapest (or the most expensive) way to go, however, they have been doing it for a very long time. There is piece of mind there...
I agree....this is about determining the most cost effective option, not necessarily finding the cheapest option. I am not interested in a cobbled together engine, airboat parts or anything like that.

I don't have a problem with a professionally supervised self assembly or using a reputable builder using new or certified serviceable parts.
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  #15  
Old 08-30-2018, 05:33 AM
mturnerb mturnerb is online now
 
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Mike Busch's latest book (Mike Busch on Engines) is a very useful starting point to get an expert perspective. Lots of counterintuitive information.
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  #16  
Old 08-30-2018, 06:11 AM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
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Default Barrett

...
I tried to contact Barrett several times via their website and never got a response, that is a no-go for me...

They recently suffered a family loss; that may be the contact issue.

I have never had any problem contacting them or having them respond to questions...
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RV-10
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Doors - Done
On Gear
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  #17  
Old 08-30-2018, 06:42 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRMA View Post
One other suggestion. Don't purchase the engine until you are about ready to install it. The warranty clock starts when the engine ships to you, and while Lycoming did a great job of preserving my engine, I would like to have warranty still in effect when I do my first start. (Just realize that delivery is several months after you place the order, so take that into account when deciding when to place your order.)
This time last year, the Lycoming warranty was....

The clock starts running when the engine
is placed in service or 24 months from
shipment by Lycoming, whichever
comes first. It means a builder typically
has as much as 23 months to ready the
airplane for first flight; there’s no need
to rush completion just to avoid losing
warranty. Once started, all non-certified
and Thunderbolt Signature models
are protected 24 months or 2000 hours,
whichever comes first. Do note that certain
high-performance options shorten
or eliminate warranty coverage, so ask
when you place your order.


Titan was .....

up to one year on the shelf,
followed by two years in service, with a
maximum of three years total.


I'm working on the 2019 Kitplanes Engine Buyers Guide right now, and will check warranty terms again when I talk to the factory guys.
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  #18  
Old 08-30-2018, 07:26 AM
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rleffler rleffler is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Delaware, OH (KDLZ)
Posts: 3,951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRMA View Post
One consideration in selecting the engine that was passed on to me by a very experienced builder was the resale value. Anything other than a zero time engine in new airframe will reduce the resale value and reduce the number of buyers who will consider your aircraft. Even a 1000 hour airframe is less valuable if the engine has more than the 1000 hours on the airframe.

While I am not planning on selling my RV-10 anytime soon, the time will come some day. So with the combination of the safety considerations expressed above, plus resale value impacts, and the potential increased time/effort that would be required to install a different engine than the IO-540 that the RV-10 is designed around, I made the decision to order the engine & prop as a package from Van's.

One other suggestion. Don't purchase the engine until you are about ready to install it. The warranty clock starts when the engine ships to you, and while Lycoming did a great job of preserving my engine, I would like to have warranty still in effect when I do my first start. (Just realize that delivery is several months after you place the order, so take that into account when deciding when to place your order.)

Best of luck with your build.
This was my thinking when I bought mine about eight years ago. That isn't my thinking today.

I went with the Van's deal. Lycoming just started shutting down the kit pipeline to builders. I was a couple months late. I didn't want an overhauled engine for all the reasons you mentioned.

I had a variety of issues, like the fuel pump quit of the first flight, and quite a few stupid questions since I never had to maintain an engine before. Van's doesn't deal with FWF issues. Lycoming was hit or miss depending on who you got on the phone.

I was fortunate to meet Rhonda and Allen from Barrett Precision Engines before I started my build. Both Rhonda and Allen have been supporters of the RV-10 community for years. Both have been helpful in my engine education and cordially answered my questions, even though I didn't buy my engine through them.

When I made my purchase, but a Thunderbolt through Van's wasn't an option, but it is now. That gives you a little flexibility in your configuration.

I don't trust Wentworth, although I know several people that have got great deals from them. You have to know exactly what you want and don't listen to their sales hype. They were pushing a 540 out of a helicopter that isn't anywhere near the same as a D4A5. Allen Barrett and a tech in the Lycoming booth at OSH educated me and prevented me from making that mistake.

If I was doing it all over again, I would purchase from Barrett. Rhonda and Allen are good people and take care of their customers. Sometimes they can get overwhelmed with new business, like right after OSH. That just means that it will take a bit longer, but they'll tell that up front. They are also great at letting people stop in and watch their build. Martin Filiatrault recently posted his experiences with Allen on his blog. I have another friend that is having some work done and I believe he is going to visit the shop next week.

I now firmly believe having Barrett find a case and overhauling yields a better solution that buying the Van's engine off the Lycoming factory line. I think it's easy to translate better, personal support as a better value proposition than a zero time engine.
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  #19  
Old 08-30-2018, 08:57 AM
MElstien MElstien is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Kinnelon NJ
Posts: 107
Default Barrett Precision Engines

Hello,

I purchased 2 AEIO-540 D4A5 cores and was in contact with Rhonda the whole way. She contacted Lycoming and got the information on the engines and gave me the confidence to purchase both, one for them, one for me.

2 weeks ago I visited the shop and watched Allen tear down my core. I learned a lot about the engine. I am a mechanical engineer by education so I should know how these things work but seeing the disassembly in person and asking questions is by far a great education and I am glad I made the trip. The core turned out to be exactly what Rhonda thought it would be: excellent.

I have no other experience except for BPE. I trust them based on the posts here in VAF and now based on my personal interaction with them

I have found the best way to contact them is by calling.
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Tail Kit delivered 6-2013
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  #20  
Old 08-30-2018, 09:07 AM
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sglynn sglynn is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 641
Default Best Engine Option

That was the same question I asked myself when it came time to buy engine for my RV-7A. Smaller and slightly cheaper but same options. I ended up selecting Van's engine and discount for the following reasons:

1) New plane deserves New engine.
2) Van's price can't be beat including prop for NEW
3) Used engine is too risky and could be junker
4) Van's engine makes it more nominal configuration for next owner
5) Van's and Lycoming's support better on new engine
6) Van's engine is more known by other builders making community support better
7) Van's engine fits and comes with installation guide.
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