VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #1  
Old 08-25-2018, 07:49 AM
Draker's Avatar
Draker Draker is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 119
Angry Fuselage woes

Just felt like venting. I've probably made more mistakes and sent more E-mails to Van's Support while building the first three fuselage subassemblies than I did for the entire empennage and wing kits. So many gotchas! Latest fun: Did the same thing that a few other builders did in this thread: missed the note on the plans that suggests I should not drill through the F-605C bar doubler where it angles down to meet the center bar. I wouldn't have even noticed the mistake if one of my favorite build logs I'm following didn't point it out. Too bad I reviewed the log after drilling the piece. Also, despite trimming the F-605C bar to the exact dimensions called out in the plans, it's end is 1/16" misaligned with the end of the center bar. This piece is a lost cause at this point, fortunately it's cheap.

I used to think I'm being efficient by pre-cutting all the parts I need for an assembly in one go, and I am learning the hard way about delaying cutting or drilling pieces until the latest possible opportunity.

As more and more of the build moves from "follow the instructions" to "read the plans carefully and do everything pictured", what methods do you guys use to ensure you're not missing anything, or doing a step too early? For the empennage and wings, you could treat the instructions as a checklist:

1. Read the instruction
2. Do what it says
3. Inspect the result
4. Check the box and move on to the next line

With the fuselage, a single line in the instructions can be 20 steps, not all of which are obvious before scrutinizing multiple drawings. I like to "follow along" each step with 6-7 other builder's logs while building to try to learn from their mistakes before I do a part, but even that's not foolproof.
__________________
Ryan Drake
Livermore, CA
https://stiletto.smugmug.com/RV7
Donated 12/29/2017
RV-7A: Empennage and wing kits complete minus fiberglass, fuselage in progress!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-25-2018, 08:38 AM
rv7charlie rv7charlie is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pocahontas MS
Posts: 3,017
Default

Van's said they've never heard a complaint like that, right?

Yeah, they have, from me, about a decade ago. So you're not alone in your frustration.

Charlie
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-25-2018, 08:55 AM
rapid_ascent rapid_ascent is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dublin, CA
Posts: 918
Default

Ryan,

Yeah it would be nice if Vans would go back and update their instructions and drawing to make corrections or clarify. In certain cases I've looked at the order of things and realized it just won't work like that.

I'm a little farther along than you on my fuse and it's out at LVK. I'm just about ready to flip it over. If you want me to look at something for you or if you want to take a look at how I put something together send me a PM.

Ray
__________________
Ray Tonks
2018 Donation Paid
RV-7 Fuselage in progress
* Rolled the Fuselage
RV-7 SB Wings
* Both Wings fully skinned
* Fuel Tanks Complete - No leaks finally
* Ailerons Complete
* Flaps Complete
RV-7 Empennage - Complete (a little fiberglass work left)
Vans Training Kit # 2 - Complete
Shop Setup - In Progress (Gathering Tools, Never Complete)
RV-7 Preview Plans
Vans Training Kit #1 - Complete
EAA Sheet Metal Class - Complete
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-25-2018, 08:55 AM
terrye terrye is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 694
Default Fuselage woes

I found the instruction manual became more vague and less comprehensive as my build went on. The empennage, wings and control surfaces are in essence the same kind of construction as the first subassembly you build, the vertical stabilizer. The fuselage is different, and a lot more work. But by this time the instruction manual assumes you are an experienced builder. I'm currently suffering from the poor instructions for the sliding canopy, but I realize that thousands of other builders have gone through this part satisfactorily.

Fortunately, I haven't ruined many parts during my build, and have not yet "painted myself into a corner", but I'm cognizant that I could still do so. My advice is to plan ahead, think ahead and use all of the resources available. This includes the instruction manual, fellow builders either local or their build websites, Vans support, and this valuable resource VAF forums. Sounds like you are already doing this, so perhaps a little more patience?
__________________
Terry Edwards
RV-9A (Fuselage)
2018/2019 VAF Contribution Sent
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-25-2018, 10:41 AM
Lemmingman's Avatar
Lemmingman Lemmingman is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 683
Default

Hi Ryan,

I'm not sure if you noticed, but there is a 'sticky' thread at the top the 'RV-7/7A' board. When I'm about to start cutting or drilling something I will sometimes search that thread for the part number in question. When I move on to a new plans page I will generally search for that plan page too, as many people reference plans. You may find something that can save you a headache. I have, and I've contributed some as well.
__________________
Gil Brice
McKinney, TX EAA-1246
RV7 - Working on fuse, fuel, brakes etc...

rvblog.thebrices.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-25-2018, 05:04 PM
Charles in SC Charles in SC is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 588
Default

There is a wealth of experience on this board if you use it. I have found it helpful to try to plan ahead enough to be able to research what I plan to do before I cut or drill anything.
__________________
Aircraft structure built.
Going at a snail's pace, life gets in the way.
Wiring done.
Engine hung.
Working on cowling.
RV 7
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-25-2018, 05:27 PM
PilotjohnS PilotjohnS is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 528
Default Forgotten

Well, i just reviewed the sticky thread. Wish i knew then what i didnt know now. Or something like that. Thanks all for posting. I havent ruined and parts, yet. But now am educated.
__________________
John S

WARNING! Information presented in this post is my opinion. All users of info have sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for their use.

Extra dues paid 2018, worth every penny

RV9A- Status: tail feathers done less tips
Wings done less tips and avionics
Fuselage 30%
www.pilotjohnsrv9.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-25-2018, 06:35 PM
wirejock's Avatar
wirejock wirejock is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 2,952
Default Bars

Yep.
I have a few extra bars too. Feel free to follow my blog. Not as good but I tried to document Van's plans and manual issues as well as post them to the "Gotcha" thread.
__________________
Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
wirejock at yahoo dot com
Donated 12/01/2017. Plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV reserved (1,800+ hours)
HS SB, empennage, tanks, wings, fuse, working finishing kit
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-25-2018, 07:30 PM
wjb's Avatar
wjb wjb is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Half Moon Bay, CA
Posts: 773
Default

Hey, Ryan ... is that my squeezer in your avatar photo??? ;-)

Yea, I had to order a new set, too. Not for this reason, but because the edge distance on the tapered end wasn't up to snuff.

You've learned the key lesson .. only cut and drill at the last possible moment.

I've had to rebuild many "make from" parts that I did to print, but weren't quite right once it was time to put them in place.

Keep pounding! Wait till you get to the avionics; I could be wrong, but I thought a I read an instruction in the plans that said "Beyond here, they be dragons. Beware. You're on your own."
__________________
Bill Bencze
N430WB (reserved) RV-7 #74152, tip-up. Engine hung!
Log at: http://rv7.wbencze.com
Defeating gravity one rivet at a time
VAF 2018 donation happily made

Last edited by wjb : 08-25-2018 at 07:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-26-2018, 10:19 AM
Draker's Avatar
Draker Draker is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rapid_ascent View Post
Yeah it would be nice if Vans would go back and update their instructions and drawing to make corrections or clarify. […] If you want me to look at something for you or if you want to take a look at how I put something together send me a PM.
Fortunately Van’s support is outstanding. They never seem to get tired of my questions, I thought they would by now. So far, luckily, I haven't screwed up anything big in particular. It's always a whole bunch of little workmanship questions. This hole is a little oblong, is it acceptable? I drilled that but shouldn't have. This edge is off by 1/16" is it ok as long as there's no hole edge distance problem? That bushing has some play--can I shim it with a washer? I could spend the whole build sending questions to Van's every weekend. Usually it's "build on" but if I don't ask, I'll always wonder. I don’t have the judgment to distinguish between “this is trivial, no need to even bother asking” and “definitely get Van’s to look at it”.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wirejock View Post
Feel free to follow my blog. Not as good but I tried to document Van's plans and manual issues as well as post them to the "Gotcha" thread.
Larry, I usual keep a tab open to your blog, it’s a great reference!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemmingman View Post
I'm not sure if you noticed, but there is a 'sticky' thread at the top the 'RV-7/7A' board.
Yea, that whole thread is printed out and kept in the garage! In fact, to save the time of running inside to look things up all the time, I took some time to hang a display from my garage ceiling. Now I can have VAF and the build logs right in front of my while I work. Can also display and zoom in on the PDF plans when needed which helps.



Quote:
Originally Posted by wjb View Post
Hey, Ryan ... is that my squeezer in your avatar photo??? ;-)
Yes it is, let me know when you need it back!
__________________
Ryan Drake
Livermore, CA
https://stiletto.smugmug.com/RV7
Donated 12/29/2017
RV-7A: Empennage and wing kits complete minus fiberglass, fuselage in progress!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:08 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.