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  #31  
Old 09-12-2018, 08:33 AM
TimO TimO is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Wisconsin
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Glad you got it working also. I'm also very glad to hear that Rian may be more accepting of improvements to kits. This is a definite change from the past, if it's true. The NL starter is absolutely the better starter for the IO-390 and IO-540, and should be the standard starter. There are many things over the years that SHOULD have been improved in the kits, but never were, and it's a relief to hear that it may be changing.

Perfect Example: If you ever paid attention to the wheel fairing extension brackets on the main gear of the RV-10, people were having them break, and I had a machining company produce over 320 of them for early RV-10 builders to make them strong. That's 160 or more lucky RV-10 builders who never had to deal with them breaking. I talked to a person AT VANS once in the past 2 years or so who said that they broke MULTIPLES of these on their RV-10 demonstrators, and finally one of the staff said to just go buy some that were made exactly like the ones I had made up. (Plans are on my site). Does it really take the kit company breaking them a few times to wake them up? But, (and I'm not positive of this), I do not think the RV-10 is being shipped with anything different in the kit for those parts since 2005-2007 when builders actually were starting to have issues.
So if they are now open to things, this is a sea change indeed.
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  #32  
Old 09-12-2018, 09:35 AM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Location: Hubbard Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimO View Post
I talked to a person AT VANS once in the past 2 years or so who said that they broke MULTIPLES of these on their RV-10 demonstrators, and finally one of the staff said to just go buy some that were made exactly like the ones I had made up.
Tim,
Just because you talked to someone in person at Van's doesn't mean you got a proper understanding or the correct info.

None of Van's RV-10's have the alternate design part that can be made from plans on your web site. They still have the updated version (which is not what was being supplied in the kits initially) of the original design part. Is it the perfect solution? No, because there has been a couple breakages in the ~15 years that the airplanes have been flying (in rather harsh flight conditions compared to what a lot of owners RV-10's experience). There is a desire in engineering to redesign the part when there is engineering time to do so but just like anything else in life, priorities have to be made and it admittedly hasn't been a real high one.

You have always been very vocal about improvements that Van's should do, but relatively quiet when improvements are made (of which there are literally hundreds every year but they often go unnoticed). Van's is a small company with very finite resources.... I think we do a very good job of managing and prioritizing those resources though once again just like real life, you can't always please everyone.......... but we keep trying.
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  #33  
Old 09-12-2018, 09:49 AM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussieflyer View Post
Thank you everyone for your helpful advice. I wish to report that I took out the permanent magnet starter motor and installed the 149-NL as recommended.
What a difference. I know Vans said it was a bit disappointing when people use their credit cards to fix things. However this was the correct fix.
I assume by "Van's said" you are referring to me?????

My comment was made as an effort to help you, not criticize you. As mentioned previously, the forums are full of posts from people that shotgun parts to solve a problem. It is even possible that you still have an issue with your starter electrical system that has been compensated for by installation of a better performing starter.

I am glad you are happy with the result of your change, but I suggest you keep a close eye on the starter motor. It is not entirely the holy grail that you might think it is (search the forums for some of the problems that people have experienced). It has had it's share of problems and even though the cranking performance is better, we have stopped using them on our company aircraft.
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  #34  
Old 09-12-2018, 11:43 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
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Scott, is there a formal "product improvement request" that might be filed to ensure that the right people at Vans would evaluate the ideas? Of course they would need to be fully documented and appropriately explained.

BTW - I just happened to get a TXT from a 7 builder with the improved standard parts for rudder counterweight inside fasteners within minutes of Rian talking about improvements being implemented. If I had not been working with this builder I would not have known about the improvement coming standard. It's hard to compliment changes if they are not known.
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  #35  
Old 09-12-2018, 01:46 PM
Bavafa Bavafa is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
but I suggest you keep a close eye on the starter motor. It is not entirely the holy grail that you might think .
Couldn't agree more.
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  #36  
Old 09-12-2018, 03:23 PM
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erich weaver erich weaver is offline
 
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Seems like we are dancing around the bush here a bit without exactly spelling out the concern for people. The concern I am aware of from my own experience and what Ive read on VAF regarding the 149NL starter is that the small diameter bolts that hold the starter together sometimes loosen significantly. What appear to be oil-like stains on the starter are a tell-tale sign. Check the bolts!

Is there something else Im missing?

With the above exception, the 149NL has worked well for me and was a significant improvement over the original lightweight starter that came with my engine. Money well spent in my case.

erich
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  #37  
Old 09-12-2018, 03:43 PM
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Toobuilder Toobuilder is offline
 
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Yep. Those bolts are 10/32 and I replaced them with drilled head AN bolts and lockwired them. No issues since.
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  #38  
Old 09-12-2018, 07:20 PM
azflyer21 azflyer21 is offline
 
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My IO390 is on order and when I inquired with Lycoming about substituting the NL starter I was told that since my engine is stock they would not make the change. Guess I go with the lightweight starter for now.
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  #39  
Old 11-05-2018, 06:12 AM
Jimd Jimd is offline
 
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As a data point for this topic - my experience is similar to Alan's described in his original post.

I have never been happy with the starter on my O-360. My engine came with a light weight Kelly Aerospace. I have always used the typical Odesey 680. If the engine is warm and/or I had the oil pan heater plugged in it would be just okay but ALWAYS had trouble with the first compression stroke. I checked the master and starter solenoids this year and the total volt drop at the starter was well within specs of the troubleshooting guide listed on the first page of this thread.

So, this inspection I decided to try the sky tec 149 NL starter. Works great! Wish I had done this years ago, probably would have saved me at least one new battery.

Jim
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  #40  
Old 11-06-2018, 12:04 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post

None of Van's RV-10's have the alternate design part that can be made from plans on your web site. They still have the updated version (which is not what was being supplied in the kits initially) of the original design part.
Can you elaborate on what the updated design is?

Larry
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